ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[desert-blue]

I highly doubt it was. I mean the reality of the situation is, DeOrr went missing from that campsite while 4 people were there within yards of him. What else could it be called??

However, the sheriff will not say that a crime occurred. There are no suspects, no foul play, and no abduction. The only other option is that he wandered off on his own and met his demise from the elements or a wild animal. If it happened like they say and it was simply a miscommunication, I don't think the sheriff wouldn't call that a "crime scene." Wouldn't he just say the cremains were dumped during a search and rescue operation or something along those lines? Maybe I'm reading too much into it....

 

[TxJan1971]

I'm having trouble with one word. Can somebody please listen and help me out? Once I fix it, I will submit transcripts - both uncut and the initial one.

Thanks

APPROX 9:13 on the audio:

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, some old ones. We haven’t found any fresh dens, but uh, just over the top of the divide there is a _________ and we understand they’ve had some issues over there with some wolves, and they’ve taken out some of the uh…some of the wolves in order to eliminate the problem, so…”
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]

 

[kammiemc]

I still cant figure out the fact that IR was fishing in the reservoir.. Deorr was near an embankment near a creek and mom and dad went exploring and dad saw minnows....what body of water were the minnows in? Wasnt everyone near water? Why didnt anyone see this baby disappear? And GGP.. what the heck? did he have his back to the creek..isnt the embankment what you would fall over and into the creek from?

Where were the minnow sightings in relation to the creek and reservoir? At some point dad had to be near water jmo

In the extended version of the interview it said that all three--mom, dad and IR were at the creek, with IR being downstream and mom and dad being upstream--all within 150 feet of each other. I'm guessing downstream is closer the reservoir if the creek feeds it?

 

[kammiemc]

I'm having trouble with one word. Can somebody please listen and help me out? Once I fix it, I will submit transcripts - both uncut and the initial one.

Thanks

APPROX 9:13 on the audio:

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, some old ones. We haven’t found any fresh dens, but uh, just over the top of the divide there is a _________ and we understand they’ve had some issues over there with some wolves, and they’ve taken out some of the uh…some of the wolves in order to eliminate the problem, so…”
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]

I think he is saying Pahsimeroi.
It's a mountain.

 

[babyback]

Sound something like persemeri. But I have no clue what it would be.

 

[TxJan1971]

Do we want the transcript(s) here AND in the Media thread or just here or just there?

 

[babyback]

Do we want the transcript(s) here AND in the Media thread or just here or just there?

I think both would be useful, JMO

 

[kammiemc]

Deep silt. They can't find anything in that stuff. If it's a lake that has homes on it they come in with the Army Corp of Engineers and dredge it. They could walk right by somebody, especially a child, on the bottom and walk on by.

They were pretty confident in the lake and then the cremains came into play. Going back to the lake and the dogs that's where they went..back and forth from the campground to the reservoir.

I think he is in there and I think they need to regroup and search that whole reservoir again.

Since they can find NO sign of him anywhere that makes sense he could make it there in his too big boots and it's not that far. Did somebody say about 200 ft from the campground to the reservoir?

I think he was missing a little bit longer than we have been led to believe.

MOO

That is heartbreaking. No worse than any other scenario, but just imagining him clomping along that path looking for his mom and dad and falling into the pretty lake.

 

[babyback]

That is heartbreaking. No worse than any other scenario, but just imagining him clomping along that path looking for his mom and dad and falling into the pretty lake.

I don't think he was up there unless he was carried.

 

[katydid23]

I still cant figure out the fact that IR was fishing in the reservoir.. Deorr was near an embankment near a creek and mom and dad went exploring and dad saw minnows....what body of water were the minnows in? Wasnt everyone near water? Why didnt anyone see this baby disappear? And GGP.. what the heck? did he have his back to the creek..isnt the embankment what you would fall over and into the creek from?

Where were the minnow sightings in relation to the creek and reservoir? At some point dad had to be near water jmo

BBM

YES. At the tail end of their little walk, Dad saw minnows and hurried to get his son to go see them too. So wouldnt that be the exact time that GGP saw DeOrr going over the ban towards the creek? Shouldnt they have run into each other then?

 

[katydid23]

As per the uncut interview, they were ALL within 100 to 150 feet of each other.

So didnt GGP point and say " he went right there, down that embankment" .... Wouldnt they all have rushed down to the water and found a boy in huge boots toddling along?

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I am wondering how he could have gotten all the way to the reservoir in big clonky boots and not be seen by anyone. That is quite a hike up a very visible trail. And he supposedly went over the bank first. Why didn't any of the 3 people down there see him before he could make it to the reservoir?

After 10 minutes when his parents found him to be missing, didnt they immediately go to the water areas first?

BBM
IMO none of the three people are where they told the Sheriff they were. The Sheriff is just relaying what was told to him. Logically it could not make sense that the parents and IR were on the other side of the bank because they would have seen the baby. So I believe that GGP is the only one who was actually where he said he was and WHY GGP thought he was with the parents...because he thought the parents were on the other side. JMO

 

[Beezneez]

I think he is saying Pahsimeroi.
It's a mountain.

Pahsimeroi is also a type of dog. They are cattle/ranch dogs, so maybe he was trying to indicate some sort of problem with the wolves and dogs guarding the cattle.

 

[babyback]

So didnt GGP point and say " he went right there, down that embankment" .... Wouldnt they all have rushed down to the water and found a boy in huge boots toddling along?

Look at this picture and tell me how DeOrr could have walked down there in his over sized boots.

And he wouldn't have hit he water.

 

[babyback]

 

[cobalt sky]

Trying to catch up...well, we didn't get a more detailed timeline like I had hoped for but I'll take what we did get!

After I saw the edited video today, I was suspicious of IR because he lauded the other 3 as being cooperative and truthful. Then the reporter asked specifically about IR, and the sheriff said he felt IR was being "very truthful."

BUT, I just noticed in the unedited interview, the reporter asks about IR first! Did they purposely show that clip out of order, and if so, for what purpose?

I was just about to post the same thing. now WHY would EIN swop the sequence of those two comments around?
In the edited version they made it look as if the Sheriff spoke about the " 3 family members being good" THEN added almost as an after-thought about IR being truthful, as if he separated him from the "good" people. But in the unedited version, the only reason the Sheriff didnt mention IR in the same sentence as the family members, is because he had ALREADY mentioned IR first.

EIN deliberately mislead. Why? And then show the unedited version, to show how they edited the first version wrongly.

EIN seem to make a lot of shoddy mistakes. They aren't a reliable source, in my opinion. And whether it was done to put IR in a bad light or no, Im not sure. Maybe he did something, or maybe he's just a patsy. An easy target. Odd case, full of odd people, and, it seems, an agenda or cover-up by ALL the family closing ranks. Imo.

Yes, I too am wondering about the editing. Did you also notice that in the "unedited" version the Sheriff states that IR is "still cooperating" but for some reason that was edited out of the shorter version. :thinking:

 

[kammiemc]

BBM
I totally agree. My jaw was clenched hearing the part about GGP thinking he 'went over the bank' .... I am thinking AND...and what did you do next? Call for help, did you call his name, go follow him and call him back?

Earlier we heard GGP had thought the baby had gone to his parents. How can you think that if the parents had been gone for 10 minutes already? Is a 2 yr old capable of finding someone in the woods? ugh

Exactly. And how could he think that the baby safely went over the embankment to his parents (who probably gained some ground after being gone for 10 mins). I think something about that story is off, either in how things actually went or in how it was relayed by ggp or the sheriff.

 

[desert-blue]

I'm having trouble with one word. Can somebody please listen and help me out? Once I fix it, I will submit transcripts - both uncut and the initial one.

Thanks

APPROX 9:13 on the audio:

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, some old ones. We haven’t found any fresh dens, but uh, just over the top of the divide there is a _________ and we understand they’ve had some issues over there with some wolves, and they’ve taken out some of the uh…some of the wolves in order to eliminate the problem, so…”
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]

Pahsimeroi - a Shoshoni word meaning a grove a trees by a steam. The Pahsimeroi River is on the other side of the mountains (to the west) of Leadore.

 

[Damarna]

They don't have a clue.

Not.A.Clue

 

[TxJan1971]

Disclaimer: Transcript is provided free and as a courtesy, based on what I heard and with punctuation added as I deemed appropriate. If you do not agree with any part of this transcript, that's okay, but please share/submit your transcript so we can compare and critique accordingly. TY


UNCUT VERSION
TRANSCRIPT - VIDEO PORTION
August 18, 2015

LEMHI SHERIFF OPENS UP ABOUT DEORR KUNZ CASE

[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]

Nate Eaton:
“Let’s go back to the beginning. Can you kind of give us a timeline as to when the family arrived and what proceeded?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, the family, from what I understand, that we learned during the investigation arrived the evening prior to July 10th, sometime fairly close to dark on Thursday, July 9th, and then, uh, they went to uh…went to town in uh Leadore and upon returning they supposedly thought they were turning their child over to their uh, grandfather – the child’s great-grandfather. They went down to the creek which is right next to the campground, and within 10 to 15 minutes they go up to find their child to show him some fish in the stream and he’s nowhere to be found. Grandfather assumes he’s gone down to them because he was within their line of sight and uh, wasn’t too far from the campground. Uh, they started their initial search and eventually called 911 when they realized they couldn’t find the child. “

Nate Eaton:
1:05
“Where was Mr. Renwand during all of this?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:08
(Using his hands to demonstrate)
“He was in the same general proximity. The creek…it’s just over the bank. Um, he’s downstream, they’re upstream. Uh, they’re all within probably (head nodding left to right) 100 to 150 feet of each other. “

Nate Eaton:
“Very close proximity.”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Very close.”

Nate Eaton:
So they called 911. You guys arrive and begin searching.

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:30
“Correct.”

Nate Eaton:
“And, um, at this point were their vehicles searched, the tents, I guess everything out there was probably searched?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:38
“We did a…I think a very thorough investigation. We uh took two initial track dogs in. Uh, one of them being mine and one being Salmon Police Department. They’re trained to search for people who are lost. Um, they were given a scent. They went from the campground up to the reservoir and then back to the campground and we…we searched everywhere a small child could easily hide or climb into or fall into.”

Nate Eaton:
“But nothing…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
2:11
“And we found absolutely nothing.”

2:13
Nate Eaton:
“Talk a little bit about the cremains that were dumped into, because the dogs were getting a scent…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”

3:04
Nate Eaton:
“Had he…had Deorr been in the reservoir, his body would have been recovered by now?”

3:11
Sheriff Bowerman:
“We believe so. Yeah. We really believe so. Mmm hmm.”

3:15
Nate Eaton:
“Okay. Uh, the store…did the family go down to the store there in Leadore and was there any surveillance captured of this boy, surveillance video?”

3:23
Sheriff Bowerman:
“I don’t believe they have a surveillance, but we have, uh…a receipt that we’ve documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt. The time was stamped on the receipt, and so, we believe, ya’ know, that’s where they went.”

Nate Eaton:
“And was that Friday morning?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Yes, it was.”

Nate Eaton:
3:40
“Okay. Uh, do you know, did they stop any other places on their way up to Leadore?”

Deputy Penner:
3:45
“Yeah! They stopped to get some diesel fuel.”

3:49
Nate Eaton:
“Diesel fuel…”

3:49
Deputy Penner:
“Yeah!”

Nate Eaton:
“Any surveillance video of that gas station?”

3:52
Deputy Penner:
“No.”

3:52
Nate Eaton:
“Okay.”

3:53
Sheriff Bowerman:
“I’d be surprised if there’s a camera anywheres in Leadore (laughs).”

3:57
Nate Eaton:
“Well, yeah, it’s remote…”

3:57
Sheriff Bowerman:
“It’s a real small community.”

3:59
Nate Eaton:
“Okay, so um, as far as the private investigator told us a few days ago, that Jessica said there was an older gentleman (Note – Sheriff Bowerman is nodding his head in the affirmative) that may have been staring at Deorr. “

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Mmm hmm.”

Nate Eaton:
“Have you heard anything about that?”

4:11
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Just the report. I don’t know that we’ve confirmed who that individual is, but uh, you know if we had to go out and look for everybody that stared at…at you personally or anybody for any type of crime, you know, it would be a pretty difficult undertaking, you know, to check those stories out. But you know, um, yes, we have heard that information.”

Nate Eaton:
“How much of the area up there was searched. It was… I mean you guys searched for two to three weeks, didn’t you, before you officially scaled back?”

4:44
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Yeah! Absolutely! “


Sheriff Bowerman:
“It’s almost a three-mile radius. “

Nate Eaton:
“And no sign?”

4:55
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Absolutely none.”

4:56
Nate Eaton:
“Do you believe it was an abduction?”

4:58
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Ya’ know, personally, I think an abduction is one of the least likely events. Primarily, the information we have is…grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank. Right where grandpa is sitting, he’s within 20-30 yards of the only roadway into the campground, and absolutely no one was seen at that lower campground coming or going, and when my personnel went in, nobody was seen leaving, so I think it, You know, I mean I can’t completely rule it out, but it’s one of the least likely things that occurred.”

5:41
Nate Eaton:
“What can you say about Mr. Renwand?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Uh, at this point he’s still cooperating. Uh, um… You know I’m not getting any uh, any feeling that he’s not being truthful. I, I think he’s been very truthful and I appreciate his help. He’s come up to the area on a 2nd occasion with me, and uh…Until we find a piece of evidence or locate anything that tells me otherwise, I think he’s being very truthful.”

Nate Eaton:
“Uh, how about the parents and the grandfather?”

6:16
Sheriff Bowerman:
“You know, I think all three…Those three have been very cooperative, uh…they’ve given us everything that we’ve asked for and…so I’m… I feel real good about…uh, the parents and…and, and the grandfather also.”

6:29
Nate Eaton:
“Um, the FBI…Has… Has…Have they… Would it be correct to say they’ve taken over, or I guess they’re working with you?”

6:35
Sheriff Bowerman:
“They’re working with us. We’ve given them uh, lots of items to uh…analyze, uh, behaviorally, and we’ve given them some physical evidence. I… I can’t go into those details but…we’re basically uh…trying to cover all of our bases, and we’re looking for any clue whatsoever that might help us resolve this.”

7:00
Nate Eaton:
“And you said Bonneville is also assisting, mainly because the family lives there.”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Very much so! Very much so!”

7:04
Nate Eaton:
“Can you say anything about how Isaac ended up on the trip?”

7:10
Sheriff Bowerman:
“I hate to go into too many details. I mean, obviously there’s a relationship between him and, and grandpa, you know. Um…You know, I mean…they’re…they’re friends…uh…but prior to that trip he had never met mom or dad. “

7:28
Nate Eaton:
“The family says their vehicles and cars were searched, which it sounds like in any case that would be standard operating procedure.”

7:39
Sheriff Bowerman:
“You know, even though we searched them that night you know you always second guess, Did we miss something? Could he have been in another compartment ? Did we not search everything? So yeah, everything has been searched at least a couple times, if not more.”

Nate Eaton:
“For you guys, how has the department been handling this? That’s a lot of manpower and hours.”

7:58
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Mmm hmm.”

Nate Eaton:
“I’m sure a little bit of frustration trying to find this kid.”

8:01
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, it’s definitely been a challenge. We’ve got some fabulous volunteers. Our Search and Rescue is second to none uh, and they’ve been overwhelmed by this. We’ve had some issues on uh…on stress that we’ve had to deal with, and our office is uh…My Chief Deputy has spent endless hours up there. He’s climbed literally up to the top of some of the peaks up there. He’s walked into some of the old uh dens of some of the animals that live in those areas, and he’s been frantically searching for a clue and…and uh, it’s been overwhelming. There’ve been days I’ve been the only patrolman on the road because all my personnel are up there working at the scene.”

8:44
Nate Eaton:
“Have you ruled out a wild animal?”

8:46
Sheriff Bowerman:
(Shakes head negatively.)

8:46
Nate Eaton:
“I guess has anything been ruled out?”

Sheriff Bowerman::
“No, absolutely nothing has been ruled out.”

Deputy Penner
“There could have been some interference from, you know, a predator at some time in this scenario whether the beginning or partway through or you know now…”

9:00
Sheriff Bowerman:
“We had bears and wolves running…literally through camp …(Nate interjects to Deputy Penner)

Nate Eaton:
“While you’re searching?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“…while we were searching. Absolutely!”

Nate Eaton:
“And there’s wolf dens nearby?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, some old ones. We haven’t found any fresh dens, but uh, just over the top of the divide there is Pahsimeroi , and we understand they’ve had some issues over there with some wolves, and they’ve taken out some of the uh…some of the wolves in order to eliminate the problem, so…”

9:27
Nate Eaton:
“Where do you guys go from here?”

9:30
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, we wait until we get our report from the FBI. That’s going to be critical…and…uh…We’re still asking the public, uh, to help us if they have any information to identify a 2 ½-year-old with blonde hair. I’m not sure that’s a positive thing for our office because every 2 ½ –year-old with blonde hair looks just like Deorr, and so I’m asking the public if they know a family and they didn’t have a 2 ½-year-old prior to this time period, that’s what I want to look at closely, but if it’s somebody they don’t know, to contact their local law enforcement and have them follow-up for us, because this is overwhelming for our small office.”

10:20
Nate Eaton:
“Yeah, have you guys just been bombarded with tips?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Absolutely! Absolutely!”

10:24
Nate Eaton:
“What are your thoughts about the private investigator? Is that just something the family is doing on their own to…?

Sheriff Bowerman:
Yep! Yep! Totally uh…Kuddos to them for, you know, looking for more help. Um, I can only do so much, and maybe he can turn up something that we’ve missed, uh, but I think, you know, he primarily thinks it’s an abduction, and I think that’s very remote.

10:47
Nate Eaton:
“And as far as the lie detector tests. You said you couldn’t say much about…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Yeah! Uh, you know what…all four have taken…voluntarily taken polygraphs and right now that...those have been turned over to the FBI along with the statements, and I would prefer to have them look at the reports and look at the evaluations on the polygraph to make sure we’re looking at everything correctly and that we didn’t miss anything.”

Nate Eaton:
“At this point would you feel comfortable saying something criminal happened?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“No!”

Nate Eaton:
“Okay.”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“No! Not at all.”