ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #68

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8:50 a.m. We are still awaiting a ruling from Judge Boyce on if Larry and Kay Woodcock will be allowed to sit in the trial. Lori’s attorneys have argued against it – saying they are witnesses and should not legally be considered victims because they are not immediate family. Prosecutors argue the Woodcocks are victims and should be allowed in.

www.eastidahonews.com

Jury selection day 1: Jury selection begins on first day of Lori Vallow Daybell murder trial - East Idaho News

BOISE – Lori Vallow Daybell’s murder trial began with jury selection Monday morning in Ada County. Daybell is charged with murder, conspiracy and grand theft in connection to the deaths of her children, 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow, and Tylee Ryan, who was last seen a few days before her 17th...
www.eastidahonews.com www.eastidahonews.com
 
osu said:
8:50 a.m. We are still awaiting a ruling from Judge Boyce on if Larry and Kay Woodcock will be allowed to sit in the trial. Lori’s attorneys have argued against it – saying they are witnesses and should not legally be considered victims because they are not immediate family. Prosecutors argue the Woodcocks are victims and should be allowed in.

www.eastidahonews.com

Jury selection day 1: Jury selection begins on first day of Lori Vallow Daybell murder trial - East Idaho News

BOISE – Lori Vallow Daybell’s murder trial began with jury selection Monday morning in Ada County. Daybell is charged with murder, conspiracy and grand theft in connection to the deaths of her children, 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow, and Tylee Ryan, who was last seen a few days before her 17th...
www.eastidahonews.com www.eastidahonews.com
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9 a.m. Still waiting for jury selection to begin. Nobody is allowed in the courtroom except potential jurors, attorneys, Lori, judge, etc. We are all watching from an overflow room – probably 10-15 members of the public, the rest are media. At least half of the seats in the room are empty. Hearing is also being live streamed to the Madison Courthouse where I’m told a handful of people are watching.
 
Ruminations said:
I'm not sure if the lawyer quoted has particular knowledge of this case.

To a certain extent, "insanity" is always available when it could mean that an element of the charged crime could not have been met- usually some cognitive detail like premeditation. These jury instructions (from memory) included explicitly that the jury must find Lori "not guilty" on a charge if it is found that the alleged crime was commuted as an impulse rather than a planned action. The plan could be made in a moment- so it is not about length of time. It's about state of mind, and insanity could make planning impossible.

However, the prosecution is ready for this IMO. They already have their expert psychiatrist review Lori's apparent state of mind for the crimes using available information. He concluded it looked like she was criminally responsible (planning) her crimes. I imagine he used evidence such as that she lied and covered her crimes.

The defense can counter that the expert has not evaluated Lori- and he hasn't because she choose not to be evaluated by him- but the court could insist she submit to being evaluated by him. The defense will probably submit their own evaluation, too.

I think it will be an uphill climb to claim Lori did not plan her actions and know they were wrong in the eyes of others outside her immediate circle.

So, I'm not worried about any insanity-like defense, negating premeditation.

MOO
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So, delusional thinking could be used (as argument) in her defense?
 
fred&edna said:
So, delusional thinking could be used (as argument) in her defense?
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Not her particular delusional thinking.

Is it delusional to think she is a translated being who can travel through portals? Yes, IMO.

But while holding those delusions, she still managed to support Charles' murder by not mentioning them to the police and instead weaving a tale about about his violence to her and Tylee- including unbelievable details like going into mom mode then sending Tylee in for her purse. Keeping the phone like it could harm her. Taking Tylee's phone to silence her- etc.

I don't think it's hard to show Lori was delusional. But that does not mean she didn't plan crimes, commit crimes, then lie about them with full awareness about when to turn the "I was before Jesus," talk off- even if she fully believes she was. In short- it doesn't matter if her religious experiences were delusions or lies or really happened. What matters is she was able to make a criminal plan knowing it was criminal and carry it out.

MOO
 
Ruminations said:
Not her particular delusional thinking.

Is it delusional to think she is a translated being who can travel through portals? Yes, IMO.

But while holding those delusions, she still managed to support Charles' murder by not mentioning them to the police and instead weaving a tale about about his violence to her and Tylee- including unbelievable details like going into mom mode then sending Tylee in for her purse. Keeping the phone like it could harm her. Taking Tylee's phone to silence her- etc.

I don't think it's hard to show Lori was delusional. But that does not mean she didn't plan crimes, commit crimes, then lie about them with full awareness about when to turn the "I was before Jesus," talk off- even if she fully believes she was. In short- it doesn't matter if her religious experiences were delusions or lies or really happened. What matters is she was able to make a criminal plan knowing it was criminal and carry it out.

MOO
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Right. :)
 
fred&edna said:
A lot of tweeting coming out of the overflow room. I'd post but not sure which one to choose... as they all are just reporting the Q&A with potential jurors.
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Personally I wouldn't find that helpful. I don't want to have to weed through bunches of tweets. Perhaps a summary at the end of the day or lunchtime then end of the day?
 
whatsupp said:
Personally I wouldn't find that helpful. I don't want to have to weed through bunches of tweets. Perhaps a summary at the end of the day or lunchtime then end of the day?
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I feel the same.
I wasn't sure if any of those without twitter might be looking for a particular reporter's info
 
As this trial begins, if you go back and read threads from when the charges were filed, it's enlightening to compare what the prosecution and defense hoped to do, with what has happened.

Lori's defense was focused on keeping her from the death penalty. Their whole case and witness list was built with that mostly in mind. Still was until very recently, in fact.

Chad's defense was focused on getting the cases severed. They stated the unfair difficulty in distancing Chad from Lori and what she did, not him.

Now? I think the focus of Lori's defense will be mostly an attempt to lessen the sentence, perhaps by shifting blame on others, and less about trying to prove innocence. Or maybe to get her incarcerated in a prison for those with diminished capacity. It's still mostly about the punishment phase.

As for Chad, I expect his defense now will be to point at Alex and Lori, and claim he had no clue they would plot such things as they chased money. He will say imo the first murder(s) were way outside Chad's world (or geography), with Charles and maybe more -- and that when those didn't land the big money Lori/Alex expected, they just found new targets whose deaths would refashion their lives, working from a casual disregard for human life.
 
SteveS said:
As for Chad, I expect his defense now will be to point at Alex and Lori, and claim he had no clue they would plot such things as they chased money. He will say imo the first murder(s) were way outside Chad's world (or geography), with Charles and maybe more -- and that when those didn't land the big money Lori/Alex expected, they just found new targets whose deaths would refashion their lives, working from a casual disregard for human life.
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SBM. Well, in July Chad giddily reported to Lori that Tammy's death percentage was falling and later he invented Viola, the zombie that took over Tammy. It was Chad who upped Tammy's life insurance in September, only a month before the first known attempt on her life. Without that payout Chad and Lori would not have been able to afford living in Hawaii.
 
pizzaman12 said:
Personally, I'm following Nate Eaton. He's posting a lot of stuff (which I appreciate). He and Justin Lum have done a great job reporting on this case for 3 years and I think they'll do a great job covering the trial

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Yeah- and the "live updates" on East Idaho News are very similar to the tweets- likely copy/paste. So at the end of the day the whole day can be viewed. The problem is that the whole day can't be one post here without a copyright violation.
 
Hoosgirl said:
9 a.m. Still waiting for jury selection to begin. Nobody is allowed in the courtroom except potential jurors, attorneys, Lori, judge, etc. We are all watching from an overflow room – probably 10-15 members of the public, the rest are media. At least half of the seats in the room are empty. Hearing is also being live streamed to the Madison Courthouse where I’m told a handful of people are watching.
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Thanks for that “snapshot.” It helps to be able to visualize the scene.
 
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