ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70

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Patch Tuesday

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Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was presumed the late wife had died of natural causes but was exhumed recently and her death is now being investigated.
The new wife's husband was shot in a family argument earlier this year:

Chandler Police identify man who was shot dead during family fight

The husband and wife are not cooperating with police and have since vanished.

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS* NO DISCUSSION #2

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 - TIMELINE ONLY *NO DISCUSSION*


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OFF TOPIC BUT IMPORTANT

There seems to be some confusion and concerns being expressed about Timeline posts not being linked in the Opening Posts.

Mods, Admins, Coordinators ... we've all had discussion about this over the last year and we just don't know why or when members started requesting WS staff to make all these additions and changes to the Opening Posts of new threads. We are a very limited staff and this is something members have historically done on their own that doesn't create any extra work for WS staff.

It is a very simple system that was set up years ago and has worked well in the past. We don't need to duplicate effort or reinvent the wheel here.

In each forum, i.e. "Located Persons Discussion", members will see at the top of the page, a sub forum called for example "Located Timeline and Media Links"

As you can see, any member can start an appropriately titled new timeline thread within such a forum and make or copy their Timeline posts and all subsequent revisions or updates into that thread. It can be titled something like Vallow & Daybell Media, Maps & Timeline (or just Vallow & Daybell Timeline thread if they want to keep it separate and apart from Media and Maps). If the thread gets titled Media, Maps and Timelines, all members have to do is use the search feature within that thread for the word Timeline. That's what these features are for.

When a member has created the Timeline thread, WS staff link it ONCE in the Opening Post and it never has to be changed again, regardless of whether it's 1 or 100 new discussion threads for any given case.

If there is any question about the above, please contact any Mod or Admin and we'll be glad to clarify.

If nobody else is going to do it for this case, when one of us gets time (not sure when that will be), we will set up the timeline thread for you in this case and copy all of Gardener1850's timeline posts into it. We will update the link in the Opening Post and it will never have to change after that.

Truly hope this clarifies.
 
Hey everyone,

Mommacass has now been verified as a family member. We'll leave it to mommacass if they wish to share how they factor into the family relationships in this case.

As a verified member, mommacass does not have to provide links to the information they provide. You may ask mommacass questions but it is up to them whether they answer or not.

Please be respectful to them at all times and do not argue with them or badger them for information.
 
Chad and Lori chose people to be in their inner circle, I believe they chose MG & ZP because they were perceived as weak minded. They appealed to their ego (as someone said earlier, this made MG & ZP feel like a part of the cool in crowd, saving the world).

ZP struggled with addiction and had multiple marriages. MG had at least one ex husband and she did not care for her child, who has autism also. This is a source of shame that's hard to overcome.

I believe people can want something so bad that their denial kicks in or the red flags are overlooked.

In hindsight MG is struggling with what she "overlooked" and does not want to admit it.

ZP does not seem to struggle like MG. She may have better dealt with what she became a part of.

I don't believe either one of them was ok with murder.

Question I still have and I hope it comes out is if AC had any life ins. Charles sold ins and AC could have had a policy. If he did I would think LVD would have been his beneficiary. So far neither side asked ZP which is why I don't think she would be beneficiary. Plus AC left her cash ($10,000ish) knowing she was not getting anything else should he pass. It would be a lost opportunity for LVD to gain if he did not have ins.
All my opinion.
 
k-mac quote-
eta
His little harem of 5.
Lori
Zulema
Mel P
Mel G
Julie R (hanging by a thread)

And of course the 'prettiest' (cough) was his chosen lover.

The only money they got was Tammys life insurance.

This was RINSE REPEAT method to gain cash to support their little cult in Rexy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BBM-- OMG-- I forgot all about Julie R.
For awhile, she was all over SM and I caught info here and there about her.

I have not seen or heard anything about her in a long time--
I wonder if she is on the Witness list. ??

Her event calendar looks pretty full these days (cough wasatch wakeup cough).
 
Fair enough, but it's not like they asked their best friend if they could say goodbye to JJ and the response was normal. The only normal response would be a calm, "Alex drove him to school already."

Then it would be understandable. But.... Tylee's stuff in storage when she lives up a hill? Door locked? No response to midnight calls and texts? Unusual claims of JJ's behavior? Then no rational response to it? (i.e. Behavior plan/meds if they work)?

But Melanie had been groomed to accept and not question Lori's responses. Lori was very capable to accelerate from, "I love you so much," to "What? You think I can't take care of JJ? That I don't know what's best for him? Look. People have been after me, yetI keep doing what I have to do. JJ was born to drug addicts and I took care of him! I already had 4 kids, and I took care of him! Charles would go on all of these business trips, leaving ME to deal with him. I did what I was supposed to do. Now I don't even deserve a little break while Alex cares for him?"

So, yeah. I see how it would be hard to use good judgment. But I still hold it is objectively true her judgement and David's was very poor.

MOO

Edited to add: David asked about him. Lori said that JJ was with Alex because he was being a zombie. They knew he was not in school.

In fact, at that time they should have ASSUMED he was in school, not asked about him.

MOO
At that point in time (mid to late September) nobody considered Chad, Lori and Alex a bunch of killers. Charles was the only person that was known to have died. Lori, Alex and Tylee stuck to the self-defense narrative and others didn't know that LE discovered several clues pointing to Charles' murder. An autistic child having a tantrum probably wasn't too unusual. The babysitter witnessed JJ having one as well. In another incident he scratched Chad's neck. But why would anyone suspect that Lori was capable of killing her own child? Or that it was a conspiracy involving Chad?
 
She lost the big payout and she was pissed. I don't know if she blamed CV but it was easier for her to believe her kids were zombies and needed to die after that because that would be her only source of income. If the kids are gone she could keep the money all to her self and Mr Loin Fire. Ick jmo

As I always say... show me the money. I still hope this is how the prosecution will ascend.... from the religious crapola smack into the money. I hope we are blessed with some of the preserved insurance calls.

In the end, it is agressive, manipulative evil greed.

also. I am thinking that the prosecution has kept the ambiguity over the insurance money out there. Lori clearly lied to Melanie, and the prosecution will show this clearly further along in the trial.

moo
 
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Chad and Lori chose people to be in their inner circle, I believe they chose MG & ZP because they were perceived as weak minded. They appealed to their ego (as someone said earlier, this made MG & ZP feel like a part of the cool in crowd, saving the world).

ZP struggled with addiction and had multiple marriages. MG had at least one ex husband and she did not care for her child, who has autism also. This is a source of shame that's hard to overcome.

I believe people can want something so bad that their denial kicks in or the red flags are overlooked.

In hindsight MG is struggling with what she "overlooked" and does not want to admit it.

ZP does not seem to struggle like MG. She may have better dealt with what she became a part of.

I don't believe either one of them was ok with murder.

Question I still have and I hope it comes out is if AC had any life ins. Charles sold ins and AC could have had a policy. If he did I would think LVD would have been his beneficiary. So far neither side asked ZP which is why I don't think she would be beneficiary. Plus AC left her cash ($10,000ish) knowing she was not getting anything else should he pass. It would be a lost opportunity for LVD to gain if he did not have ins.
All my opinion.
In the LE interview of April 21, Z stated that she didn’t know if A had life insurance and that LE should ask Lori as Charles used to work in the industry.

This at about the one hour 50 minute mark
 
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Thanks, Snoopster! Exactly what I was looking for regarding who’s who. Now another thing I’m having trouble following is the timeline on all this craziness. I’ve found a a couple of timelines online by various news sources but many seem obsolete as testimony comes out. Do you know of one that might be better than others - that perhaps they are updating as the trial progresses?

Joe Ryan's sister has one:


There is also one here created by Gardner1950 and Tortoise that is linked in post 1 of every new thread.

 
Chad and Lori chose people to be in their inner circle, I believe they chose MG & ZP because they were perceived as weak minded. They appealed to their ego (as someone said earlier, this made MG & ZP feel like a part of the cool in crowd, saving the world).

ZP struggled with addiction and had multiple marriages. MG had at least one ex husband and she did not care for her child, who has autism also. This is a source of shame that's hard to overcome.

I believe people can want something so bad that their denial kicks in or the red flags are overlooked.

In hindsight MG is struggling with what she "overlooked" and does not want to admit it.

ZP does not seem to struggle like MG. She may have better dealt with what she became a part of.

I don't believe either one of them was ok with murder.

Question I still have and I hope it comes out is if AC had any life ins. Charles sold ins and AC could have had a policy. If he did I would think LVD would have been his beneficiary. So far neither side asked ZP which is why I don't think she would be beneficiary. Plus AC left her cash ($10,000ish) knowing she was not getting anything else should he pass. It would be a lost opportunity for LVD to gain if he did not have ins.
All my opinion.

Wow, so MG does have a child that is autistic and did not raise him/her? Really?
If that is the case it makes much more sense now why MG did not attempt to or have any relationship with JJ or Tylee.
It makes sense that she doesn‘t really ask about them, doesn‘t seem to pay attention to where they are, she doesn’t have that motherly instinct! OK, not wrong or cold just oblivious to the ways of kids and what is appropriate or age related.

So, what is DW’s story? Does he have kids? He testified in CD’s prelim in a manner that made me believe he cared for children, noticed JJ did not acknowledge him, and noticed JJ was asleep on AC’s shoulder.
Did he notice JJ was not with the adults on Sat Sept 22? If he was not with them, where was he?

I‘ve also wondered about the death of AC. Was he killed, if so, by who? And why?
He is a bit of a 3rd wheel when it comes to Chad and Lori, could that be it? I’m surprised by the lack of loyalty of Lori for her brother- not sure why- she had none for husbands or her own children.
But…AC had ZP and was beginning a new life.
Why was it necessary to off AC? Did Lori and AC have an odd sibling relationship?
Did Lori perceive AC to be jealous of Chad? Was Chad becoming Alpha Male?
Did Lori see Chad as her new protector And not a temporary fling to off later for insurance?
Chad did have something AC did not have- Tammy’s life insurance $.

Did Chad actually make the decision to get rid of AC?

Edited
JMO
 
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In the LE interview of April 21, Z stated that she didn’t know if A had life insurance and that LE should ask Lori as Charles used to work in the industry.

This at about the one hour 50 minute mark
Thanks, I listened to where you suggested.

Paraphrasing, I found it interesting that she said she wouldn't know about any insurance but Lori would.

I do hope more is revealed during the trial
 
Sorry, Ruminations, I don't know how to delete accidentally replying to one of your posts here. I meant to add to the posts about all the evidence of financial motives for murder. I also may be violating the way you are supposed to post links.

I am not an Idaho attorney, have not reviewed any of the evidentiary pleadings or rulings in the case, nor am I familiar with the rules and cases in Idaho that may be relevant. Here, the trial attorney's role is to ask questions in a way that will help the jury and help the witness. Here, IMHO, the witness could have recollected her past testimony/statements, but was inhibited by the passage of time, this witness ALWAYS gets confused when trying to converse with someone (see her own statement, and the impressions of a professional news reporter, below) and her answers have always appeared to be misunderstood by the trial attorneys who ALL then engage in rapid-fire questioning that is slightly off, as if the attorneys know the testimony is garbled but do not know how to help the witness by accessing the past statements the witness had made. An attorney has to identify the times the attorney needs to slow down the proceeding, not speed it up, to get the correct testimony into the record. IMHO, when a motive for murder was involved, the correct testimony is crucial.

In addition to being able to ask clarifying questions, attorneys in a case like this will have people assisting them during trial who are supposed to know the facts inside-out, and have the ability to simultaneously acess useful prior witness stements and exhibits while testimony is being received.

Each trial team should have a person like Annie Cushing. (Timeline of Events Around the Disappearance of Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow - Annielytics.com)

When I heard the MG testimony, I knew what she was trying to say and remember, and had my answer to what the testimony was "supposed" to be. I just ran a GOOGLE search for Lori Vallow Insurance $3 Million. see: Part 2: Melanie Gibb describes zombies, JJ's disappearance and the 'fatal attraction' between Chad and Lori Daybell - East Idaho News):

“I didn’t know about (the shooting) until four days after it happened. She called me and said, ‘Hey, did you see the news?’ … I said, ‘I don’t watch the news,’ and she said, ‘Charles was shot,'” Gibb says. “I’m like, ‘What?'”
Gibb was confused and asked what happened. Lori said Charles had been planning to kill her to cash in on a $3 million life insurance policy. She also said Charles’ sister, Kay Woodcock (who is also the grandmother of JJ, whom Charles adopted), had turned into a zombie and was after her. “She told me (Charles) had about $1 million (in life insurance), and she knew when he passed away, she thought she was going to get the money … but she thought possibly the policy had been switched from her to Kay,” Gibb says.


Unless there was a tactical reason to avoid assisting the witness, which IMHO was absurd once this witness got confused, the trail attorney's team should have printed out and given the prior statements of the witness to the trial attorney to quickly review -- during direct, or at a minimum prior to re-direct. Hopefully the data analytics/trial support person on the team will get better (or get more help) as the trial progresses.

I will not pretend to understand how the people in this Idaho courtroom have been or will be handling Idaho Rules of Evidence Rule 612 (Writing or Object Used to Refresh a Witness's Memory) or the extensive case law in that state involving the presentment of evidence to a jury. I cannot see the trial team in action, so maybe he/she/they were trying to signal their attorney at the point the witness needed help. Clearly, the trial team has methods to quickly access all the discovery and all the outside data sources, including websleuths.com, throughout the trial.


Glad you brought up Annie Cushing. I have followed her from the beginning, and really respect her, and hor her work, data analytics, helps dicipher and present the data.
 
Glad you brought up Annie Cushing. I have followed her from the beginning, and really respect her, and hor her work, data analytics, helps dicipher and present the data.

Agree, Annie C has become the voice for Tylee’s justice. Her pain is palpable.
Annie is a force of nature, I expect she is present in the courtroom if she can be.
It seems she has waited for this for so long, I would love to hear her take on it, but know it is very near and dear to her heart. To her this isn’t some case, it was her brother and her niece.

I pray she sees justice in action for Tylee, and something can be done to bring justice for JR.

JMO
 
Wow, so MG does have a child that is autistic and did not raise him/her? Really?
If that is the case it makes much more sense now why MG did not attempt to or have any relationship with JJ or Tylee.
It makes sense that she doesn‘t really ask about them, doesn‘t seem to pay attention to where they are, she doesn’t have that motherly instinct! OK, not wrong or cold just oblivious to the ways of kids and what is appropriate or age related.

So, what is DW’s story? Does he have kids? He testified in CD’s prelim in a manner that made me believe he cared for children, noticed JJ did not acknowledge him, and noticed JJ was asleep on AC’s shoulder.
Did he notice JJ was not with the adults on Sat Sept 22? If he was not with them, where was he?

I‘ve also wondered about the death of AC. Was he killed, if so, by who? And why?
He is a bit of a 3rd wheel when it comes to Chad and Lori, could that be it? I’m surprised by the lack of loyalty of Lori for her brother- not sure why- she had none for husbands or her own children.
But…AC had ZP and was beginning a new life.
Why was it necessary to off AC? Did Lori and AC have an odd sibling relationship?
Did Lori perceive AC to be jealous of Chad? Was Chad becoming Alpha Male?
Did Lori see Chad as her new protector And not a temporary fling to off later for insurance?
Did Chad actually make the decision to get rid of AC?

Edited
JMO

DW comes with his own "end of times" baggage for sure. He, too, was a speaker at events regarding the end of times coming soon. He seems smarter and less gregarious as Chad, for sure..... but he certainly has been involved in the re-interpretation of LDS gospel.
 
Wow, so MG does have a child that is autistic and did not raise him/her? Really?
If that is the case it makes much more sense now why MG did not attempt to or have any relationship with JJ or Tylee.
It makes sense that she doesn‘t really ask about them, doesn‘t seem to pay attention to where they are, she doesn’t have that motherly instinct! OK, not wrong or cold just oblivious to the ways of kids and what is appropriate or age related.

So, what is DW’s story? Does he have kids? He testified in CD’s prelim in a manner that made me believe he cared for children, noticed JJ did not acknowledge him, and noticed JJ was asleep on AC’s shoulder.
Did he notice JJ was not with the adults on Sat Sept 22? If he was not with them, where was he?

I‘ve also wondered about the death of AC. Was he killed, if so, by who? And why?
He is a bit of a 3rd wheel when it comes to Chad and Lori, could that be it? I’m surprised by the lack of loyalty of Lori for her brother- not sure why- she had none for husbands or her own children.
But…AC had ZP and was beginning a new life.
Why was it necessary to off AC? Did Lori and AC have an odd sibling relationship?
Did Lori perceive AC to be jealous of Chad? Was Chad becoming Alpha Male?
Did Lori see Chad as her new protector And not a temporary fling to off later for insurance?
Chad did have something AC did not have- Tammy’s life insurance $.

Did Chad actually make the decision to get rid of AC?

Edited
JMO
IIRC, MG has four children. She got divorced in 2019. Her autistic son was about 15 at the time.
 
Agree, Annie C has become the voice for Tylee’s justice. Her pain is palpable.
Annie is a force of nature, I expect she is present in the courtroom if she can be.
It seems she has waited for this for so long, I would love to hear her take on it, but know it is very near and dear to her heart. To her this isn’t some case, it was her brother and her niece.

I pray she sees justice in action for Tylee, and something can be done to bring justice for JR.

JMO

I so agree... I have felt her pain. Some of her pain is that she accepted some of Lori's manipulated stories around JR's behaviour against Tylee.

Sometimes, I just feel so badly how JR was set-up, and unfairly persecuted. In my mind, he just always wanted a relationship with his daughter. And both Tylee, and Annie were lied to, to make Joe a bad person.

Lori is truly an evil manipulator. moo. moo. moo.
 
DW comes with his own "end of times" baggage for sure. He, too, was a speaker at events regarding the end of times coming soon. He seems smarter and less gregarious as Chad, for sure..... but he certainly has been involved in the re-interpretation of LDS gospel.

Makes sense as all four of them were making a podcast that night of Sept 22.
Does anyone know where that podcast can be heard?
Does he have a family, exwife, children?
If MG was considered part of the inner circle, was DW also considered in that way?

Lori and Chad deal with people as commodities…
What benefit did Lori and Chad have for mingling with MG and DW?
Were they showing the property to MG and DW to brag? Or did they need funding? Or was this going to be where MG and DW would move?
Was that going to be where the end of times groups would be gathering?
Anyone know who the real estate agent was, or where this land was located?
Any ideas who was going to fund the purchase?

JMO
 
I so agree... I have felt her pain. Some of her pain is that she accepted some of Lori's manipulated stories around JR's behaviour against Tylee.

Sometimes, I just feel so badly how JR was set-up, and unfairly persecuted. In my mind, he just always wanted a relationship with his daughter. And both Tylee, and Annie were lied to, to make Joe a bad person.

Lori is truly an evil manipulator. moo. moo. moo.
Annie witnessed Joe physically abuse Colby. Charles also helped Lori fight against Joe. It's not all black and white.
 
IIRC, MG has four children. She got divorced in 2019. Her autistic son was about 15 at the time.

Any idea the ages of her kids? I sensed MG had issues with Tylee. Her tone with she mentions Tylee is not flattering. She seems to have not been around teenage girls.
What is MG’s relationships with her children? They don’t seem to be keeping her from traveling, so I’m guessing they are older or with their dad?
So when did she split from her ex? Was that action related to this end of times movement?

JMO
 
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