ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
It seems like the defense has been trying to paint this picture of LVD as someone with strong and sincerely held religious beliefs -- which where are then, presumably, used by CD to manipulate her.

"It seems like the defense has been trying to paint this picture of LVD as someone with strong and sincerely held religious beliefs -- which where are then, presumably, used by CD to manipulate her."

Yes, definitely.

I think there's also the introduction of the idea that she was (or believed she was) on a legit "mission from God," including having been given guidance by other-world beings highly revered by LDS members. She was told to go to a temple, and get a message, and sure enough, she got the message from someone who was exactly what she had been led to expect. That might resonate with an LDS person on the jury who believes in spiritual guidance -- Lori was being guided by God, and following the guidance.

There is also the idea of her being actively devoted to helping others prepare for hard times ahead -- including Biblical end-of-days concepts -- might also buy some positive connection.

It still doesn't seem like those should be enough to counter evidence of her involvement in murders, especially of her own kids, actions that seemed to be significantly motivated by money, sex, and power. But I think they want to open the door to the contrasting idea that (at least in theory) she might have been trying to act solely out of a desire to carry out her Heaven-sent mission.

In general, I don't think it's persuasive enough of an idea to turn the trial in her favor, BUT she only needs one LDS juror who does take it at face value. I think that's the defense's purpose in all this.
 
Last edited:
I wish this trial was televised so I could see Lori and the jurors and get the full context.

Reading Nate and Gigi's tweets it sounds as if Lori was a cult mover and shaker, not a helpless puppet. She's not a bit shy...talking to Jason Mow before he talked to her: "Hi, you have a message for me from Moroni?" (I can just see her flipping her hair and batting her eyes while she said it -- the same way she did with the police while Charles was lying dead on her floor. :mad: ) Both Melanie Gibb and Zulema said Lori was flirtatious and forward the first time she met Chad.

Maybe I'd feel differently about the audio if I was in the courtroom or watching the trial live. The tweets I read about what Lori said in the audio don't make Lori sound like a weak victim.

My own opinion.
I feel you!

I haven't figured out how to feel about this coming in.

It puts Lori in as a gatherer if women, and does not put her as testifying under the influence of Chad. (or, TUIC).

It shows her colliding with Chad and starting their affair as equals in - whatever that stuff is.

Another disadvantage to the defense, it seems to me, is that instead of hearing this -stuff- first, the jury heard it after the autopsy photos.

If that podcast woukd have resonated with any juror- it could have made them like Lori and thought- no way did that spiritual giant kill! Instead the jurors first saw potential results of that testimony first.

It's still a little true, if jurors like the podcast it could help Lori. But hearing the podcast first and seeing the murders second would be much more helpful than the way it happened.

If the jurors connect the beliefs to the murder, this separates the beliefs from Chad, IMO.

I see how the podcast complicates the case- which could be a strategy. "I don't get this DNA podcast Vision Zombie mumbo jumbo. Let's just aquit." But other than complications, which favor defense, it seems like at best a draw for the prosecution and defense to allow this podcast. (And this does not seem to be a jury that is shying away from complexity.)

Obviously, I'm missing something. The lawyers fought vigorously about this. It is far more than I see right now.

MOO

Edit: @wnk and @SteveS could be nailing it. Paint Lori as sincere and Chad as a charlatan, trying to sell his books. Thomas did snidely say trying- and also emphasized that Tammy worked and raised the family while Chad was "trying." to sell books.

MOO
 
Last edited:
Not sure why the defense wanted that played. Made her sound terrible even before she and Chad got together.
Its very simple. The jury gets to hearfrom her without her being subject to cross examination. I'm not sure it helped much but the prosecution really fought hard to keep it out so they must think it is potentially influential.
 
Its very simple. The jury gets to hearfrom her without her being subject to cross examination. I'm not sure it helped much but the prosecution really fought hard to keep it out so they must think it is potentially influential.

The prosecution hadn't heard it, assumed it would be self-serving and thereby inadmissible. The defense has made many bonehead moves in this trial, this being just another one of them.
 
Correct me where I’m wrong please…

The podcast was recorded 11/4/2018 according to Archibald, right? This would be around the time that LV & CD met at event in St George, right? (Pretty sure that was supposed to be Oct/Nov 2018) And CD isn’t there for this podcast, right? It seems I recall that LV was flirting with CD at that meeting in St George but that their relationship began after CD came to speak at a meeting and stayed at LV’s house later in November, right? So at this point, LV’s isn’t exactly under CD’s spell, right?

Now…in this podcast LV says she was a normal person raised in southern CA and went to Utah and went to BYU and things turned really bad, right?

Backtrack a little with me here…When did LV go to BYU? When did she go to Utah? She married a high school boyfriend (Yanes) while she was still a teen - short marriage ended in divorce. She left southern CA right after the divorce. Married a guy named Lagoliia (or something like that) in TX (Cory’s dad) - again short marriage ended in divorce. She marries Joseph Ryan who adopts Cory and they have Tylee. They get divorced and she marries CV and they adopt JJ. Did I miss it? When did she go to BYU?

If I didn’t miss it and have my timeline right and she did not go to BYU, the defense just showed that LV was lying and manipulating before her relationship with CD and she cannot blame it all on CD as they have been trying to do.

And yet the prosecution didn’t bring that up after hearing the LV portion of the podcast so I’m wondering whether I’ve missed it in all this time I’ve looked at this case and maybe she did attend BYU.

Did she?
 
Last edited:

I like Lindsey Blake's redirect:

Archibald as nothing further. Blake now has some re-direct. She asks if the children of Melanie Gibb, Thor, or Jason Mow were found buried on Chad's property. Todd says no. Blake has no further questions. --Nate Eaton @NateNewsNow
I would have loved to have seen that moment in court. Bravo!
 
LV may have "gone" to BYU -- to see the building. I have never, ever read, heard or seen anything that would suggest that she was a student there. Between attending cosmetology/hair styling school, coasting down the runway of beauty pageants with her newly-installed breast implants, and appearing on Family Feud/Wheel of Fortune (or both?), she barely had time for all of her marriages -- let alone pursuing a degree in college.
 
This might be old news to some, but I was floored to hear that Lori Vallow apparently held a pool party on the same afternoon that Alex shot Charles Vallow to death, and at the same house! Talk about nerve!

"In a Facebook post Sunday, Vallow’s former property manager in Arizona, Joe Pongratz, said he asked Vallow to leave following the death of her husband, Charles Vallow, on July 11 at the property she rented. Pongratz was disturbed by several details surrounding Charles Vallow’s death. Charles was shot to death by Vallow’s brother, Alex Cox. Pongratz wrote that, on the same day Charles died, Vallow texted him, “we are ok, Ill explain later,” when he texted her wondering why police were at the house.

Pongratz also wrote that she threw a pool party later that afternoon.
“That day the neighbors reported a pool party at the house, the same day Charles was murdered, with loud music and lots of people swimming."

 
Correct me where I’m wrong please…

The podcast was recorded 11/4/2018 according to Archibald, right? This would be around the time that LV & CD met at event in St George, right? (Pretty sure that was supposed to be Oct/Nov 2018) And CD isn’t there for this podcast, right? It seems I recall that LV was flirting with CD at that meeting in St George but that their relationship began after CD came to speak at a meeting and stayed at LV’s house later in November, right? So at this point, LV’s isn’t exactly under CD’s spell, right?

Now…in this podcast LV says she was a normal person raised in southern CA and went to Utah and went to BYU and things turned really bad, right?

Backtrack a little with me here…When did LV go to BYU? When did she go to Utah? She married a high school boyfriend (Yanes) while she was still a teen - short marriage ended in divorce. She left southern CA right after the divorce. Married a guy named Lagoliia (or something like that) in TX (Cory’s dad) - again short marriage ended in divorce. She marries Joseph Ryan who adopts Cory and they have Tylee. They get divorced and she marries CV and they adopt JJ. Did I miss it? When did she go to BYU?

If I didn’t miss it and have my timeline right and she did not go to BYU, the defense just showed that LV was lying and manipulating before her relationship with CD and she cannot blame it all on CD as they have been trying to do.

And yet the prosecution didn’t bring that up after hearing the LV portion of the podcast so I’m wondering whether I’ve missed it in all this time I’ve looked at this case and maybe she did attend BYU.

Did she?
I don't think you are wrong but I'll try to provide a couple of precise dates. Lori apparently first met Chad at a PAP conference in St. George Utah on 26 October 2018. This date agrees withe the date the indictment gives for the beginning of their conspiracy. Others think they might have met earlier and I have no reason to doubt they might have but I don't think there is any evidence. They had a few common friends though.

Lori married her first husband in 1992 but I have not found the specific date or the date of their divorce.

She married her second husband on 22 October 1995 according to Texas marriage records. They divorced in February 1998.

She married #3 in 2001 and they divorced in 2004, finalized in 2005. It was 2007 when Alex tasered him.

I'm going to guess that the defense would not have said she attended BYU because that would be so easy to verify. But attended does not mean graduated so I suspect she went for a short time but did not graduate.

It's ironic that her marriage to CV was her longest but Chad is already in second place!
 
Chad told his children that Tammy was sick before she died. His daughter reported that Tammy was going to bed early. After her death Chad claimed that he could communicate with Tammy on the other side of the veil and described how she was already busy with "her mission". He portrayed Lori as a grieving widow who he bonded with. Chad cried convincingly when Tammy was found and again at her funeral. He's a diabolical manipulator (just like Lori).

That trip was part of Chad's power play over his family. Look: nothings wrong. We're going on a nice vacation. Tammy was sick AND is busy doing stuff behind the veil. I'm tired of all these conspiracy theories. Smile and enjoy the vacation [or sulk elsewhere with no family].

IMO
It doesn't matter the gobbledee -gook they had been spoon fed.

Real feelings. real emotions...and real loss are still human instinct.

All the folk attached to the goobledee-gook knew to keep it on the low down.
That says alot to me whether all in or not.....you are aware that it is not perceived normal mentality.

These kids deep down would have felt an incredible loss of their mother. No matter how much positive spin anchored to that narrative.


It is just not comprehensible to think the kids were all good with mom 'off on a mission' behind the veil instead of cooking apple pie, supporting and loving her family in real time.
While dad parades around with his glamorous new girlfriend.....

No way.
 
LV may have "gone" to BYU -- to see the building. I have never, ever read, heard or seen anything that would suggest that she was a student there. Between attending cosmetology/hair styling school, coasting down the runway of beauty pageants with her newly-installed breast implants, and appearing on Family Feud/Wheel of Fortune (or both?), she barely had time for all of her marriages -- let alone pursuing a degree in college.
Do we know that she had breast implants? If so when did she get them? Curious to see where it was in the life long timeline I am working on. Do we know the name and date of the pageant and WoF appearance?
 
Do we know that she had breast implants? If so when did she get them? Curious to see where it was in the life long timeline I am working on. Do we know the name and date of the pageant and WoF appearance?
HTC interviewed Lori's cousin.
She told us that Barry Cox (loris father) said she had "fried eggs' and paid for her (his daughter) to have breast implants.
She didn't say the age but I assume early adulthood.

This family are sexual weirdos to the max
 
I can't imagine being in their position.

The information they have to process... it's horrific and shakes their foundations. This is a metaphor for other things, but I think it works for them.

They basically have to rebuild their whole boat of who they are and who their family is plank by plank- while at sea.

If they yank out too many planks- they drown.

I can't get too mad at them for not seeing the obvious.

MOO
Great imagery.
In my mind, I think they will all come around. Gradually. One by one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
177
Guests online
3,167
Total visitors
3,344

Forum statistics

Threads
603,055
Messages
18,151,215
Members
231,635
Latest member
mmjordan75
Back
Top