ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #73

[Patch Tuesday]

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was presumed the late wife had died of natural causes but was exhumed recently and her death is now being investigated.
The new wife's husband was shot in a family argument earlier this year:

Chandler Police identify man who was shot dead during family fight

The husband and wife are not cooperating with police and have since vanished.

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS* NO DISCUSSION #2

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 - TIMELINE ONLY *NO DISCUSSION*

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[Sillybilly]

OFF TOPIC BUT IMPORTANT

There seems to be some confusion and concerns being expressed about Timeline posts not being linked in the Opening Posts.

Mods, Admins, Coordinators ... we've all had discussion about this over the last year and we just don't know why or when members started requesting WS staff to make all these additions and changes to the Opening Posts of new threads. We are a very limited staff and this is something members have historically done on their own that doesn't create any extra work for WS staff.

It is a very simple system that was set up years ago and has worked well in the past. We don't need to duplicate effort or reinvent the wheel here.

In each forum, i.e. "Located Persons Discussion", members will see at the top of the page, a sub forum called for example "Located Timeline and Media Links"

As you can see, any member can start an appropriately titled new timeline thread within such a forum and make or copy their Timeline posts and all subsequent revisions or updates into that thread. It can be titled something like Vallow & Daybell Media, Maps & Timeline (or just Vallow & Daybell Timeline thread if they want to keep it separate and apart from Media and Maps). If the thread gets titled Media, Maps and Timelines, all members have to do is use the search feature within that thread for the word Timeline. That's what these features are for.

When a member has created the Timeline thread, WS staff link it ONCE in the Opening Post and it never has to be changed again, regardless of whether it's 1 or 100 new discussion threads for any given case.

If there is any question about the above, please contact any Mod or Admin and we'll be glad to clarify.

If nobody else is going to do it for this case, when one of us gets time (not sure when that will be), we will set up the timeline thread for you in this case and copy all of Gardener1850's timeline posts into it. We will update the link in the Opening Post and it will never have to change after that.

Truly hope this clarifies.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Mommacass has now been verified as a family member. We'll leave it to mommacass if they wish to share how they factor into the family relationships in this case.

As a verified member, mommacass does not have to provide links to the information they provide. You may ask mommacass questions but it is up to them whether they answer or not.

Please be respectful to them at all times and do not argue with them or badger them for information.

 

[Riverdoc]

Been awhile since I posted, so kinda forgot how. I intended to respond the post mentioning dr. Christiansen “x rays”. I wonder if they did chest X-rays, specifically I wonder about ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome). Chest.x rays are weird. The images tend to lag behind the clinical (don’t ask me why ). ARDS has a very specific unique appearance. It’s bilateral and all parts of the lungs look patchy as if they were full of cotton balls. Not sure if the findings would be there when the body was exhumed. It happens with asphyxiation and leads to the foamy lung secretions. Clinical review: Lung imaging in acute respiratory distress syndrome patients - an update is an article describing this.

Also, been meaning to add that IIRC JJ was prescribed risperidal. It has an fda indication for impulsive and aggressive behavior in autism. No “harm” in neglecting to give it. He would just be rowdy and harder to manage. He would require more redirection and supervision. Iirc, Lori would give this to him in the early evenings sometimes to make him sleep, it’s true that if it is not given regularly, that he would likely be drowsy after each dose.

Keep wondering/hoping the fbi will speculate about what happened behind the closed BBQ restaurant (leaving Yellowstone)

 

[Caylee Advocate]

To blur responsibility. Prior seemed to be going for the jugular of the LDS church. For his client, he wants to make the so called "cult" talk mainstream.

Prior?? I believe you meant Archibald> I so dislike trying to catch up with the days testimony at almost midnite.

 

[pizzaman12]

Has anyone heard this full podcast that was admitted today or was this new? Obviously objected by the prosecution, which in turn led to the defense saying they'd only play 40 of the 49 minutes. Did that last 9 minutes offer a door into something like Joe Ryan or was it simply 9 minutes of nonsense?

 

[SteveS]

Has anyone heard this full podcast that was admitted today or was this new? Obviously objected by the prosecution, which in turn led to the defense saying they'd only play 40 of the 49 minutes. Did that last 9 minutes offer a door into something like Joe Ryan or was it simply 9 minutes of nonsense?

According to the defense, when introducing the evidence, the entire podcast was 1:49. They said the relevant portion was the first 0:40, in which each of the speakers (Melanie, Jason, Thor, and Lori) took a turn to say what they wanted to share with the listeners, and that after that it just cycled back and they re-said about the same thing for the rest of it. So the court decided to admit into evidence and play the first 0:40, and skip the rest.

I think this is the link to the audio for the day which was in excess of 5 hours. The pod being aired is the last part, with the setup by Boyce at about the 5:00 mark more or less. This audio being provided has edited out the others (which were aired in the courtroom, and reported on as to the contents) and only includes what Lori said, which starts at about the 5:02 mark.

 

[indicolite22]

It looks like MBP still has the same attorney (the same as ZP).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653209570368704513

 

[KonaHonu]

Has it been reported whether MG, DW, MBP, and ZP were given immunity from prosecution? Because if being part of the cult is used as evidence of a conspiracy I think I would be worried if I were them. I don't think they had anything to do with it (except maybe MBP) but I would still be very concerned if I were one of them.

 

[RickshawFan]

In general, I don't think it's persuasive enough of an idea to turn the trial in her favor, BUT she only needs one LDS juror who does take it at face value. I think that's the defense's purpose in all this.

Snipped

The tape may also persuade a juror what a scam the whole act is, that Lori is a grande dame of a mirage that she has created. While the others on the tape may well be sincere, the tape seems so one-upmanship competitive about troubles and redemption. And Lori is the queen, with the tale to beat all, when she name-drops Moroni.

To me, the tape highlights Lori’s cunning and calculation, not her innocence. And if I were a believer, I might feel resentful that she sets herself up as queen of the future universe.

 

[pizzaman12]

According to the defense, when introducing the evidence, the entire podcast was 1:49. They said the relevant portion was the first 0:40, in which each of the speakers (Melanie, Jason, Thor, and Lori) took a turn to say what they wanted to share with the listeners, and that after that it just cycled back and they re-said about the same thing for the rest of it. So the court decided to admit into evidence and play the first 0:40, and skip the rest.

I think this is the link to the audio for the day which was in excess of 5 hours. The pod being aired is the last part, with the setup by Boyce at about the 5:00 mark more or less. This audio being provided has edited out the others (which were aired in the courtroom, and reported on as to the contents) and only includes what Lori said, which starts at about the 5:02 mark.

Thank you

 

[pizzaman12]

It looks like MBP still has the same attorney (the same as ZP).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653209570368704513

Garrett must be quite the salesman.

 

[pizzaman12]

Has it been reported whether MG, DW, MBP, and ZP were given immunity from prosecution? Because if being part of the cult is used as evidence of a conspiracy I think I would be worried if I were them. I don't think they had anything to do with it (except maybe MBP) but I would still be very concerned if I were one of them.

ZP has limited-use immunity. If I recall correctly, I believe all others have testified that they do not have immunity nor any deals from the prosecution.

 

[KonaHonu]

Snipped

The tape may also persuade a juror what a scam the whole act is, that Lori is a grande dame of a mirage that she has created. While the others on the tape may well be sincere, the tape seems so one-upmanship competitive about troubles and redemption. And Lori is the queen, with the tale to beat all, when she name-drops Moroni.

To me, the tape highlights Lori’s cunning and calculation, not her innocence. And if I were a believer, I might feel resentful that she sets herself up as queen of the future universe.

I don't think it is possible to say how much the podcast hurt or helped either side. The prosecution seemed desperate for the jury NOT to hear it which suggests they think it hurts their strategy in the case. But if I were a juror, especially an LDS juror given what we've heard about their belief in agency and each individuals obligation to choose good over evil, I would not care if Chad had her under his spell and she was a true believer even before meeting him. I'm most certainly not mormon (or any religion for that matter) but I agree with their views on agency. If she was involved, prove that to me and I will convict her even if she had sincere religious beliefs and was being manipulated by Chad.

I still hold the view that we have heard very little evidence of an actual conspiracy involving Lori. But I don't think the podcast helped her. At best, in my opinion, it undermined MG and ZP to some extent because it makes them seem a little whacked. But I did not find their testimony that important to the prosecution anyway.

I find it a little odd that, in opening arguments, the prosecution kept saying the case was about Lori wanting "money, sex, and power" and would manipulate others to get what she wanted. I think that undermines their own conspiracy case. Manipulating someone into doing something is not conspiracy. There has to be an agreement. If Lori said to Alex, "Life would be so much better if Charles, Tammy, and the kids were gone" and sat back and waited for him to act, knowing she could manipulate him, I don't think that actually meets the legal standard for an agreement to create a conspiracy. It would depend on Idaho case law and given the LDS influence I suspect there is a lot of emphasis placed on individual agency. Maybe an Idaho lawyer can correct me.

ETA: Idaho has an h I hear.

 

[KonaHonu]

ZP has limited-use immunity. If I recall correctly, I believe all others have testified that they do not have immunity nor any deals from the prosecution.

Thank you!

 

[Nikynoo]

Not sure why the defense wanted that played. Made her sound terrible even before she and Chad got together.

Does it not undermine the prosecution’s case that Lori only held these bizarre beliefs because of Chad?

 

[aafromaa]

I don't think you are wrong but I'll try to provide a couple of precise dates. Lori apparently first met Chad at a PAP conference in St. George Utah on 26 October 2018. This date agrees withe the date the indictment gives for the beginning of their conspiracy. Others think they might have met earlier and I have no reason to doubt they might have but I don't think there is any evidence. They had a few common friends though.

Lori married her first husband in 1992 but I have not found the specific date or the date of their divorce.

She married her second husband on 22 October 1995 according to Texas marriage records. They divorced in February 1998.

She married #3 in 2001 and they divorced in 2004, finalized in 2005. It was 2007 when Alex tasered him.

I'm going to guess that the defense would not have said she attended BYU because that would be so easy to verify. But attended does not mean graduated so I suspect she went for a short time but did not graduate.

It's ironic that her marriage to CV was her longest but Chad is already in second place!

Thank you for the input. I had 1st marriage in 91 or 92 but other than that I think I had the same dates on the rest. So you think she may have gone to BYU Utah after high school but before marrying 1st husband at 18 or 19? Surely she didn’t return from TX & go for a while before returning to TX to marry #2? Or go to UT to BYU as a single mom after divorcing #2 in TX before returning to TX to marry #3?

I don’t think defense caught that she was lying in that podcast about attending BYU when she said she went to Utah to BYU and then things got bad. I’d like to know for sure if she ever attended BYU anywhere but don’t think she did and fairly certain she never lived in Utah or went to school there. MOO of course

 

[aafromaa]

Do we know that she had breast implants? If so when did she get them? Curious to see where it was in the life long timeline I am working on. Do we know the name and date of the pageant and WoF appearance?

I don’t know anything about the implants but I have 2004 for both the pageant and Wheel of Fortune - don’t have exact dates but apparently before JR filed for divorce in August 2004.

 

[KonaHonu]

Does it not undermine the prosecution’s case that Lori only held these bizarre beliefs because of Chad?

I don't think so. We have to assume that many of the jurors are LDS and even if they are not they likely hold conservative views. Not everyone in Idaho is conservative or LDS but that is the general thought climate. This means they would probably have a similar view on individual agency that Mornons espouse - individuals are responsible for their own actions regardless of who influenced them or how. (I may not said that correctly as a represenation of LDS beliefs but hopefully I captured the general idea.) If there was an agreement to kill the kids it does not matter who influenced whom or how. Adults have to own their actions.

 

[cottonweaver]

Correct me where I’m wrong please…

The podcast was recorded 11/4/2018 according to Archibald, right? This would be around the time that LV & CD met at event in St George, right? (Pretty sure that was supposed to be Oct/Nov 2018) And CD isn’t there for this podcast, right? It seems I recall that LV was flirting with CD at that meeting in St George but that their relationship began after CD came to speak at a meeting and stayed at LV’s house later in November, right? So at this point, LV’s isn’t exactly under CD’s spell, right?

Now…in this podcast LV says she was a normal person raised in southern CA and went to Utah and went to BYU and things turned really bad, right?

Backtrack a little with me here…When did LV go to BYU? When did she go to Utah? She married a high school boyfriend (Yanes) while she was still a teen - short marriage ended in divorce. She left southern CA right after the divorce. Married a guy named Lagoliia (or something like that) in TX (Cory’s dad) - again short marriage ended in divorce. She marries Joseph Ryan who adopts Cory and they have Tylee. They get divorced and she marries CV and they adopt JJ. Did I miss it? When did she go to BYU?

If I didn’t miss it and have my timeline right and she did not go to BYU, the defense just showed that LV was lying and manipulating before her relationship with CD and she cannot blame it all on CD as they have been trying to do.

And yet the prosecution didn’t bring that up after hearing the LV portion of the podcast so I’m wondering whether I’ve missed it in all this time I’ve looked at this case and maybe she did attend BYU.

Did she?

great catch, I didn't notice she claimed she went to BYU! It wasn't in Gigi's tweets, but it is in Nate's

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653509922943021064

I think the State didn't bring this up because they didn't notice what you caught. Pros must have been kicking themselves that they opened the door by mentioning the podcast with Thor & Mow during Mr Gilbert's testimony.

yes Archibald said the podcast was recorded on Nov. 4, 2018 ( Nate's tweets) but frustrating that he doesn't give the name of this podcast. It would've been easier to check when it was made.
List of every podcast & speaking event, includes examples of when David Warwick was co-speaking with Chad sept 2018 All episodes of Preparing A People Podcast Network