Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #53

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Gosh I’m trying to remember, but I think MG ran the risk of an obstruction charge, or hindering an investigation. I can’t recall. It was definitely something because in the Preliminary JP hammered the question as to whether or not prosecution offered MG a deal for testimony and she said no. I don’t think it was solicitation (for MG) though.

ETA: Link. It starts at 22 minutes and has to do with being offered a deal because she lied to police.

IMO, MG is the prosecution's most important witness. Without her testimony, what do they have to show that both LV and CD were conspiring to avoid a police investigation?

Of course CD's lawyer is trying to discredit MG, so that appears that all her testimony is a lie, and police are paying her to lie and CD and LV are being set up by a conspiracy between police and MG.

Do people not realize that MG blew this whole thing open by going voluntarily to police, taping Lori's phone calls, etc.

She did not lie to police and say that she currently had JJ, never. And even if she had, once she cooperated with police it didn't matter.

Police investigating what turned out to be a conspiracy to kill three people, don't care if a witness hasn't paid their parking tickets, or jay-walked on their way to the police station.

They keep their eyes on the big picture, not the trivial details, they don't make mountains out of mole hills.
 
There doesn't seem to be anything so far in my links (below), about what the target of the solicitation is responsible for doing or not doing. IMO, it seems as if "criminal solicitation" is a one-way street; the complaint goes to the record and guilt of the importuner; i.e. Lori.

We can't liken it to solicitation of prostitution, as prostitution can indeed nab both the patron and the prostitute under the same charge; because they have equal potential culpability in "who propositioned whom", and this always devolves, as a million cop shows have shown us, into "he said/she said":

Solicitation

Solicitation - FindLaw

Solicitation Charge Explained - criminal

From the latter:

"Solicitation is the act of persuading or soliciting another individual or entity to perform or participate in an activity that is typically criminal, illegal, and unlawful in nature. "

To me, the above definition only encompasses one-way. Unless someone is going to argue in court that MG was in fact soliciting Lori to lie about JJ's whereabouts, I don't see how this is a mutual crime, because the above links don't show anything redounding to the solicitee, when they are being asked to commit a crime that they in fact did not wind up committing.

If people are thinking that one quickly-retracted lie qualifies MG on the same criminal level as if she were planning a burglary with Lori or going to be Lori's accomplice, I am afraid they are doomed to be disappointed, because I don't see how anyone can say that MG knew Lori's goal in asking her this question was to hide evidence of a murder.

IANAL myself (though we do have some here); but if someone's going to charge you with being an accomplice to, say, a bank robbery; nothing I've read has said the accomplice can be an unaware dupe of the fact that a robbery is taking place, and still wind up getting charged. Both sides/all parties involved, be they active or passive, have to be knowledgeable of the intent to commit a crime.
The criminal complaint spells out the charges against Lori Vallow
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Amended Criminal Complaint.pdf

It includes

"On or about November 26, 201 9, Lori Vallow contacted Melanie Gibb via phone, for the
purpose of requesting and/or encouraging noncooperation with law enforcement’s lawful
investigation regarding the whereabouts of JJ Vallow.
5. On 0r about November 26, 201 9, Lori Vallow contacted Melanie Gibb via phone, for the
purpose of requesting and/or encouraging Melanie Gibb to prepare and/or present false
evidence to law enforcement regarding the whereabouts of JJ Vallow during lawful
investigation."

Prosecution would not have been able to lay these charges if MG had not gone and told police about them! They did not have access to this information from any other source. They were not tapping LV's phone, they did not know what was going on.
 
The criminal complaint spells out the charges against Lori Vallow
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Amended Criminal Complaint.pdf

It includes

"On or about November 26, 201 9, Lori Vallow contacted Melanie Gibb via phone, for the
purpose of requesting and/or encouraging noncooperation with law enforcement’s lawful
investigation regarding the whereabouts of JJ Vallow.
5. On 0r about November 26, 201 9, Lori Vallow contacted Melanie Gibb via phone, for the
purpose of requesting and/or encouraging Melanie Gibb to prepare and/or present false
evidence to law enforcement regarding the whereabouts of JJ Vallow during lawful
investigation."

Prosecution would not have been able to lay these charges if MG had not gone and told police about them! They did not have access to this information from any other source. They were not tapping LV's phone, they did not know what was going on.

Police knew a few things without MG's cooperation. They knew Chandler police were investigating the attempted shooting of BB, and that it might be linked to the death of CV. They had a welfare check request by JJ's grandparents. They had located LV, AC, and CD. They knew that Tammy Daybell had recently died unexpectedly. They knew that CD and LV were now married.

Most importantly, they had not been able to locate JJ Vallow, which led to the discovery that Tylee Ryan was also missing. Thankfully, they were able to trace Lori to Hawaii and arrest her on the abandonment charges.

MG's testimony contributes to the solicitation to commit a crime, the misdemeanor charge. Her testimony also confirms the last time JJ was seen alive, though if not for her, there would have been his teachers.

I'm glad she came forward after helping to delay the investigation, but I don't think LE would have needed her testimony for the felony charges. MG's recorded phone conversation did not help locate the children on the Daybell property. She only exonerated herself as to having been the last admitted custodian of JJ Vallow. I think she realized she had no choice but to do that or face suspicion of murder herself.
 
Police knew a few things without MG's cooperation. They knew Chandler police were investigating the attempted shooting of BB, and that it might be linked to the death of CV. They had a welfare check request by JJ's grandparents. They had located LV, AC, and CD. They knew that Tammy Daybell had recently died unexpectedly. They knew that CD and LV were now married.

Most importantly, they had not been able to locate JJ Vallow, which led to the discovery that Tylee Ryan was also missing. Thankfully, they were able to trace Lori to Hawaii and arrest her on the abandonment charges.

MG's testimony contributes to the solicitation to commit a crime, the misdemeanor charge. Her testimony also confirms the last time JJ was seen alive, though if not for her, there would have been his teachers.

I'm glad she came forward after helping to delay the investigation, but I don't think LE would have needed her testimony for the felony charges. MG's recorded phone conversation did not help locate the children on the Daybell property. She only exonerated herself as to having been the last admitted custodian of JJ Vallow. I think she realized she had no choice but to do that or face suspicion of murder herself.

I'm interested in how she delayed the investigation? Jmo
 
Correct-- and she was told by LVD that JJ was going/had gone to live with Kay and Larry.

That's why I thought the recorded phone call was so incongruous.

IIRC MG stated she was upset by the fact that Lori had said JJ was with her to LE. Yet in that phone call, did she adamantly speak to and include the lie that she had been told that JJ was with Kay / the airport story while being recorded?
 
As far as we know, Lori had no contact with Kay who lives in Louisiana. Lori told MG that she gave JJ to Kay who accepted him because of the lie that Lori had cancer.

Did Kay ever validate that Lori told her the reason she needed to “rehire” JJ was because she had breast cancer, or did she only say so to MG?
 
Police knew a few things without MG's cooperation. They knew Chandler police were investigating the attempted shooting of BB, and that it might be linked to the death of CV. They had a welfare check request by JJ's grandparents. They had located LV, AC, and CD. They knew that Tammy Daybell had recently died unexpectedly. They knew that CD and LV were now married.

Most importantly, they had not been able to locate JJ Vallow, which led to the discovery that Tylee Ryan was also missing. Thankfully, they were able to trace Lori to Hawaii and arrest her on the abandonment charges.

MG's testimony contributes to the solicitation to commit a crime, the misdemeanor charge. Her testimony also confirms the last time JJ was seen alive, though if not for her, there would have been his teachers.

I'm glad she came forward after helping to delay the investigation, but I don't think LE would have needed her testimony for the felony charges. MG's recorded phone conversation did not help locate the children on the Daybell property. She only exonerated herself as to having been the last admitted custodian of JJ Vallow. I think she realized she had no choice but to do that or face suspicion of murder herself.

... and don't forget, other than teachers, that she for the ?? first and only time in Rexburg?? hired a nanny. That was there to state that JJ was alive, and that MG was there on that date.

For some reason, I think there was planning on Lori's part to have the nanny there on that date, just can't get inside her brain to figure it out.

But you may be right that she was setting up MG to create confusion and reasonable doubt, and had the nanny there to confirm such?
 
They fled the state that night. JMO.

I wouldn't exactly call CD & LV's actions "fleeing the state." They may have moved up their departure from the condos by minutes or hours, but the flights to California had to have been purchased well in advance. Chad was traveling with his children, and they were flying on the busiest air travel date of the year.
 
They fled the state that night. JMO.

Exactly. Indeed, that is so on target for you to point out that it was a small window that not answering the phone and telling the truth immediately ... allowed them to leave without being confronted and or detained by law enforcement for more questions "down at the station" at that time ..with Lori, Chad and Alex's lies that day.
 
I wouldn't exactly call CD & LV's actions "fleeing the state." They may have moved up their departure from the condos by minutes or hours, but the flights to California had to have been purchased well in advance. Chad was traveling with his children, and they were flying on the busiest air travel date of the year.

Fair enough. Actually, you're probably right. They left that night. Not 10-12 days later. I like using the words "flee, fled". Reminds me of my old RPIMUD days lol.

(RPIMUD - Role play intensive multi user domain. )

JMO
 
... and don't forget, other than teachers, that she for the ?? first and only time in Rexburg?? hired a nanny. That was there to state that JJ was alive, and that MG was there on that date.

For some reason, I think there was planning on Lori's part to have the nanny there on that date, just can't get inside her brain to figure it out.

But you may be right that she was setting up MG to create confusion and reasonable doubt, and had the nanny there to confirm such?

Any other persons inside Lori's apartment would leave DNA around to again muddy up the water. Lori would not have been able to plan the prepper event where her friends stayed in her apartment, but the opportunity that the event allowed may have led to the timing of JJ's murder, when other persons could possibly be implicated.
 
IMO, MG is the prosecution's most important witness. Without her testimony, what do they have to show that both LV and CD were conspiring to avoid a police investigation?

Of course CD's lawyer is trying to discredit MG, so that appears that all her testimony is a lie, and police are paying her to lie and CD and LV are being set up by a conspiracy between police and MG.

Do people not realize that MG blew this whole thing open by going voluntarily to police, taping Lori's phone calls, etc.

She did not lie to police and say that she currently had JJ, never. And even if she had, once she cooperated with police it didn't matter.

Police investigating what turned out to be a conspiracy to kill three people, don't care if a witness hasn't paid their parking tickets, or jay-walked on their way to the police station.

They keep their eyes on the big picture, not the trivial details, they don't make mountains out of mole hills.
I will start off and say...”From your lips to the jurors ears!”

I don’t quite give MG as much credit as you do. I don’t believe LE would have stopped bothering MG until someone in LE laid physical eyeballs upon JJ, especially after Uncle Alex said he was with KW. LE may have relaxed a bit when she said “oh he WAS with me, but he’s back with LV now.” Sure she volleyed the ball back to LV. But maybe after hearing that in LE minds that could have explained why he wasn’t at home and probably he was OK. If she did say “yeah he’s with me” they would have made an appointment lickity split to come on by. So yeah..I think she delayed things a bit. Lori was delusional telling her to take pictures of random kids to send to LE. I don’t think that would have cut the mustard.

That being said, I do believe she has helped out tremendously once she decided to. And she didn’t hire an attorney (who would have insisted on an immunity deal first) and I’m glad because the fact she was offered no deal lends credibility to the fact she took a lot of risk in coming forward the way she did to do the right thing.

MG made some mistakes, and the defense will try to capitalize on them, but at the end of the day I think the jury might understand. At least I hope so.

ETA: MOO
 
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I will start off and say...”From your lips to the jurors ears!”

I don’t quite give MG as much credit as you do. I don’t believe LE would have stopped bothering MG until someone in LE laid physical eyeballs upon JJ, especially after Uncle Alex said he was with KW. LE may have relaxed a bit when she said “oh he WAS with me, but he’s back with LV now.” Sure she volleyed the ball back to LV. But maybe after hearing that in LE minds that could have explained why he wasn’t at home and probably he was OK. If she did say “yeah he’s with me” they would have made an appointment lickity split to come on by. So yeah..I think she delayed things a bit. Lori was delusional telling her to take pictures of random kids to send to LE. I don’t think that would have cut the mustard.

That being said, I do believe she has helped out tremendously once she decided to. And she didn’t hire an attorney (who would have insisted on an immunity deal first) and I’m glad because the fact she was offered no deal lends credibility to the fact she took a lot of risk in coming forward the way she did to do the right thing.

MG made some mistakes, and the defense will try to capitalize on them, but at the end of the day I think the jury might understand. At least I hope so.

Understood. And because today I went back to refresh I had a totally different take on things with Prior questioning.

But jurors won't be able to have that priveledge, so I do hope upon hope that since Wood has seen what Prior will do/has done, he will do motion in limines to keep some of that out before the horse is outta the barn at trial MOO.

Relistening to what Prior asked her about her son who apparently got caught in the crosshairs... grrrrrrrrrrrrr. I now think he did that not only to get it in, but to pizzz off MG on the stand by bringing up her autistic son.

Matter of fact, re listening to the entire MG testimony today gave me different impressions than the first time I had listened to it live. Looking back after all these discussions.. the things that he brought up for reasonable doubt and questioning... I see more clearly now MOO.

I hope she stays strong and doesn't waver. (psssst... and no more interviews now please Melanie)

ETA: Of note below, 191,096 views at this time. I do like how EIN broke out all testimonies so they are easy to find on YouTube. Can you imagine that 191 thousand folks have viewed you on the stand. Egads. MOO You helped break this case, so Stand up and Stand strong for Justice for Tylee and JJ, MG!


ETA #2: Dear Mr. Prior. You know how you were talking about the other co conspirator having a negative effect as basis to split. Ummm, this prelim was #1 as to numbers on the net, not Lori MOO
 
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Understood. And because today I went back to refresh I had a totally different take on things with Prior questioning.

But jurors won't be able to have that priveledge, so I do hope upon hope that since Wood has seen what Prior will do/has done, he will do motion in limines to keep some of that out before the horse is outta the barn at trial MOO.

Relistening to what Prior asked her about her son who apparently got caught in the crosshairs... grrrrrrrrrrrrr. I now think he did that not only to get it in, but to pizzz off MG on the stand by bringing up her autistic son.

Matter of fact, re listening to the entire MG testimony today gave me different impressions than the first time I had listened to it live. Looking back after all these discussions.. the things that he brought up for reasonable doubt and questioning... I see more clearly now MOO.

I hope she stays strong and doesn't waver. (psssst... and no more interviews now please Melanie)

ETA: Of note below, 191,096 views at this time. I do like how EIN broke out all testimonies so they are easy to find on YouTube.

Gosh I miss Judge Eddins. I SO wish he was still the judge. Shoot man dang.
 
I just meant it’s odd to make such a distressing claim to someone close enough to entrust with your adopted child. Such a lie would result in the need for a long string of lies to maintain it, plus physical changes due to treatment, etc. Lori should have known Kay — or anyone else in her orbit — would learn soon enough that it wasn’t true. It’s a clue to how off the wall Lori was at that point. Do we know from Kay that Lori made this claim, or is MG the only source? Sorry, I don’t recall if there is evidence one way or the other.
Off the wall, for sure, and probably shocked that MG wouldn’t lie and run right out and take pics of random kids for her.
 
Off the wall, for sure, and probably shocked that MG wouldn’t lie and run right out and take pics of random kids for her.
I mean...anyone with a pea brain (IMO) would know that a random picture isn’t going to satisfy LE on a welfare check. It’s the absolute silliest. Even if she sent LE an old picture of JJ himself they would make sure to come physically see him. And yeah I’m sure LV was shocked. (IMO)
 
I mean...anyone with a pea brain (IMO) would know that a random picture isn’t going to satisfy LE on a welfare check. It’s the absolute silliest. Even if she sent LE an old picture of JJ himself they would make sure to come physically see him. And yeah I’m sure LV was shocked. (IMO)

Lori is smart as a fox for sure. She's a maestro as to orchestrating others. It perhaps wasn't just to point a finger at MG, but to give her just enough time to make that flight the next day.

Like I said, I can't get into her head but she is one conniving planning ... person. MOO
 
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