Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #54

[indicolite22]

DBM - duplicate

 

[indicolite22]

Being a juror is going to be difficult. I just can't imagine attorneys discussing "zombies" in a courtroom. The whole situation is beyond belief. Who can wrap their head around these bizarre beliefs?

I wonder who will bring up zombies in the trial. They weren't mentioned by the prosecution in Chad's preliminary hearing. Will his doctrine documents be used as evidence against them?

But, it seems to be just a distraction. The real issue is the insurance money, and the benefit cash that Lori lived on. Conveniently, every one who was a "Zombie" and died benefitted LVD and CD financially.

A few zombies escaped. After the attack on him, BB feared for his life. He expected another attempt by Alex. Kay was also declared a zombie. She was probably too far away to be in danger.

I'm surprised that Lori and Chad didn't try to eliminate MG after learning that she turned against them, especially after Alex's death.

 

[GRT]

As another poster stated earlier, I don't think MG saying that JJ wasn't with her without adding that she had him initially would have made much difference in the case. In either case the attention was turned back to Lori.

The police knew about Lori's death threats to Charles and Lori's strange beliefs about being a deity and did nothing. What makes you think MG could change that? It's not a crime to have weird beliefs.
MG learned that BB was shot at two weeks after it happened. How did she have any proof as to who did it?
She went with Lori for a mental evaluation. According to Lori, she passed. What should have MG done about it?

They haven't killed anyone up to that point. Again, Charles (and others) went to police about the threats, but the police weren't interested.

That is not a valid comparison. MG was part of the cult, but wasn't in on the murders because she wasn't even part of the family. She would not have profited from the deaths, so she didn't have to know about the plot. Chad was the instigator anyway, IMO.

I doubt the defense would talk about CV's death in the children's trial when it would only implicate their client in more crimes. MG was a witness there as well, not an accomplice.

I think MG is an excellent witness. She went to police volutarily and she can provide a lot of insight into the cult, as well as Chad and Lori's dynamic. We need to keep in mind though that all the details might not be brought up in court. Her incriminating information that can be corroborated with other evidence will no doubt be used. I think Nate Eaton mentioned that more recordings were made.

,"


This is a very insightful post, and I agree, MG will likely be an excellent witness.

The part where you said, "It's not a crime to have weird beliefs," is really the crux here. Plus, the police seemed to think the story of Alex shooting in self-defense was accurate, so why would MG doubt it? At the time MG lied, she still thought LV was just trying to keep JJ safe. No one yet knew Tylee was missing as well. In fact, until the bodies were found, many people held out hope they were still alive -- including me. I don't see anything MG did that would hurt her as a witness.

 

[indicolite22]

JMOO, but if I were a juror, I wouldn't have any trouble believing MG's sincerity now. I feel as though she's done all the right things, after she did the wrong thing. Her early lie would not be an issue for me.

BBM. Expecially because she didn't divert attention away from Lori with it, quite the contrary.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I wonder who will bring up zombies in the trial. They weren't mentioned by the prosecution in Chad's preliminary hearing. Will his doctrine documents be used as evidence against Lori and Chad?

A few zombies escaped. After the attack on him, BB feared for his life. He expected another attempt by Alex. Kay was also declared a zombie. She was probably too far away to be in danger.

I'm surprised that Lori and Chad didn't try to eliminate MG after learning that she turned against them, especially after Alex's death.

Well MG was concerned enough to go into hiding. She hid from them and the press, both. Jmo

 

[indicolite22]

Well MG was concerned enough to go into hiding. She hid from them and the press, both. Jmo

She was in Utah when Chad and Lori called her on November 26. They would likely have known that she was with DW if she wasn't in Arizona.

 

[Hatfield]

My biggest frustration with this case is that there are no murder charges yet. I think if there had been murder charges on both of them, then one of them by now would have folded and try to get a plea agreement to testify against the other.

I understand if the DA does not have enough evidence yet then they cannot file murder charges, but I so wish those charges would be there. JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

She was in Utah when Chad and Lori called her on November 26. They would likely have known that she was with DW if she wasn't in Arizona.

After that. She wasn't in hiding on the 26th. Jmo

 

[indicolite22]

I have in my notes that this Friday is 28 days for the defense to do something? But in my notes, I didn't write down what that something was. #1 - Anyone recall what that was referring to? #2 - Is it something that was asked for a delay and approved by the judge?

Was it the change in venue deadline, which was allowed to be extended until after the transcripts from the prelim that are due end of September by court reporter?

TIA

This is from your own post:

September 18? Can someone confirm my math please? - Deadline for motions is 28 days after Chad's last hearing started the clock (e.g. to combine the two trials, and other motions by defense/prosecution )

I was reminded of the deadline by the latest Scott Reisch video. He says that the deadline for all defense motions is 28 days after the arraignment.

 

[Forever Young]

BBM. Expecially because she didn't divert attention away from Lori with it, quite the contrary.

Can you imagine the raised hopes that Kay and Larry Woodcock felt when they heard that a friend was verifying that JJ was alive and well in Arizona at Thanksgiving, only to find out a couple of weeks later it was all a ruse? That's the collateral damage done from this lie, and I kind of doubt that KW and LW really think that MG is "all that", the way she seems to think they do. MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

She was in Utah when Chad and Lori called her on November 26. They would likely have known that she was with DW if she wasn't in Arizona.

Yes, understood as I would know if my "sister".... well maybe sister... was out of town and I directed them to "my friend who lives in Arizona" without mentioning that I knew at that time that my friend who lives in Arizona was not in that state. Lori MOO is the most strategic, planning se*ial ki**er I have ever followed. MOO

Delay, delay.

 

[indicolite22]

Can you imagine the raised hopes that Kay and Larry Woodcock felt when they heard that a friend was verifying that JJ was alive and well in Arizona at Thanksgiving, only to find out a couple of weeks later it was all a ruse? That's the collateral damage done from this lie, and I kind of doubt that KW and LW really think that MG is "all that", the way she seems to think they do. MOO

I'm not assuming that the police believed MG. The information that MG had JJ was unverified, so I don't think LE told Kay and Larry anything about it until it was confirmed. It became clear the next day that JJ was not back with Lori, otherwise she would not have fled. She could have easily provided his picture for example. Lori was aware that Kay couldn't take custody of JJ from her - she told that to police herself.

IIRC, MG has since met Kay. She speaks about it in her last interview with Nate Eaton. IMO Kay and Larry appreciate MG coming forward much more than casual observers who are looking for scapegoats in this case.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm not assuming that the police believed MG. The information that MG had JJ was unverified, so I don't think LE told Kay and Larry anything about it until it was confirmed. It became clear the next day that JJ was not back with Lori, otherwise she would not have fled. Lori was aware that Kay couldn't take custody of JJ from her - she told that to police herself.

IIRC, MG has since met Kay. She speaks about it in her last interview with Nate Eaton. IMO Kay and Larry appreciate MG coming forward much more than casual observers who are looking for scapegoats in this case.

Comment of the day. Thank you! Jmo

 

[Forever Young]

I'm not assuming that the police believed MG. The information that MG had JJ was unverified, so I don't think LE told Kay and Larry anything about it until it was confirmed. It became clear the next day that JJ was not back with Lori, otherwise she would not have fled. Lori was aware that Kay couldn't take custody of JJ from her - she told that to police herself.

IIRC, MG has since met Kay. She speaks about it in her last interview with Nate Eaton. IMO Kay and Larry appreciate MG coming forward much more than casual observers who are looking for scapegoats in this case.

I remember hearing it on the national evening news, that friend had said that they had JJ in Arizona, then a few days later, that she had retracted the story. Many breathed a sigh of relief at that news, only to have it quickly taken away.

I'm not looking for a scapegoat, far from it. I am just honestly saying that MG is not the heroine of this story and makes a poor witness who was whipped around in the wind depending on which way it was blowing.

In fact, it was not a single lie that MG told - it was two lies: one, that she had had JJ, and two, that Lori had come picked him up.

This was at a point in time when the Woodcocks and others were hanging on for any word of JJ being sighted, at a point in time when MG knew that LV had said she no longer even wanted JJ, had called him a zombie, and that she intended on giving him back to Kay. So how bad could Kay have been if Lori was planning on giving him back anyway?

 

[CSIDreamer]

I remember hearing it on the national evening news, that friend had said that they had JJ in Arizona, then a few days later, that she had retracted the story. Many breathed a sigh of relief at that news, only to have it quickly taken away.

I'm not looking for a scapegoat, far from it. I am just honestly saying that MG is not the heroine of this story and makes a poor witness who was whipped around in the wind depending on which way it was blowing.

In fact, it was not a single lie that MG told - it was two lies: one, that she had had JJ, and two, that Lori had come picked him up.

This was at a point in time when the Woodcocks and others were hanging on for any word of JJ being sighted, at a point in time when MG knew that LV had said she no longer even wanted JJ, had called him a zombie, and that she intended on giving him back to Kay. So how bad could Kay have been if Lori was planning on giving him back anyway?

Can we get the link for the news story?

 

[MsJosie]

Going slightly off-topic, I will never ever believe that Tammy Daybell died a natural death.

I agree. It may take years and new scientific testing but they will find new evidence of her death, not natural. (Saying it nicely)

 

[Forever Young]

Can we get the link for the news story?

No, but it would have been NBC Nightly News since that is my regular routine. I'll see if I can find it, but no promises.

 

[MsJosie]

My biggest frustration with this case is that there are no murder charges yet. I think if there had been murder charges on both of them, then one of them by now would have folded and try to get a plea agreement to testify against the other.

I understand if the DA does not have enough evidence yet then they cannot file murder charges, but I so wish those charges would be there. JMO

Hatfield, I agree. A poster, threads back, said these two cannot be tried for murder after this trial and if/when they are convicted....double jeopardy. They can serve the time for these crime/crimes only even its 5 or 20 years if convicted. I would like them to be tried for murder, but if not, stay in jail the entire sentencing time, no early out for being good and praying. LVD is 47, CD is 52, add 20 years on 67 and 72. Prison will not be nice. Still they Can have years left but where ever they live, who ever they live with, watch out. I would not turn my back if I wanted to live

 

[indicolite22]

I remember hearing it on the national evening news, that friend had said that they had JJ in Arizona, then a few days later, that she had retracted the story. Many breathed a sigh of relief at that news, only to have it quickly taken away.

The case broke in the media on December 20 when it was all said and done. I have never heard the news story that you describe (mentioning a friend who changed their mind) and would appreciate a source. IIRC we haven't heard about MG's involvement in the news until much later. We first heard about her lie at Chad's preliminary hearing.

I'm not looking for a scapegoat, far from it. I am just honestly saying that MG is not the heroine of this story and makes a poor witness who was whipped around in the wind depending on which way it was blowing.

I wasn't talking specifically about you. I'm aware that a certain portion of SM is looking left and right to find people to blame. It's pointless IMO.

MG didn't flip-flop back and forth either. She was loyal to and trusting of Lori and Chad from the beginning until the point when she realized that she was deceived. From then on she fully cooperated with LE, not unlike many insider witnesses.

In fact, it was not a single lie that MG told - it was two lies: one, that she had had JJ, and two, that Lori had come picked him up.

Yes. It doesn't change anything for me. The first lie: she was stupid to falsely incriminate herself. The second lie: she didn't let Lori off the hook.

This was at a point in time when the Woodcocks and others were hanging on for any word of JJ being sighted,...

As I said, the police knew that JJ wasn't with Lori the next day. So the second part of MG's statement was a lie. There was no reason to trust the first part.

...at a point in time when MG knew that LV had said she no longer even wanted JJ, had called him a zombie, and that she intended on giving him back to Kay. So how bad could Kay have been if Lori was planning on giving him back anyway?

The argument that Lori didn't want JJ and that he was behaving like a zombie is not applicable after Lori told MG that he was with Kay. The reason Lori gave MG for giving JJ back to Kay was him being in the way of Lori and Chad's mission. Lori said something similar about JJ when she wanted to leave him with Charles in January - she had a more important mission to carry out than being a mother. That doesn't imply murdering your child.

 

[ivegotthemic]

This is from your own post:

September 18? Can someone confirm my math please? - Deadline for motions is 28 days after Chad's last hearing started the clock (e.g. to combine the two trials, and other motions by defense/prosecution )

I was reminded of the deadline by the latest Scott Reisch video. He says that the deadline for all defense motions is 28 days after the arraignment.

to piggy back off this, i was curious about Idaho court rules for making a decision on the motion for joinder and found

Idaho Court Rule - Rule 12. Pleadings and Motions Before Trial; Defenses and Objections.
(d)Motion Date- Motions under Rule 12(b) must be filed within 28 days after the entry of a plea of not guilty or seven days before trial whichever is earlier. In felony cases, motions under Rule 12(b) must be brought on for hearing within 14 days after filing or 48 hours before trial, whichever is earlier. The court may shorten or enlarge the time and, for good cause shown or for excusable neglect, may relieve a party of failure to comply with this rule.

Its at the courts decretion when to decide on the motion for joinder, so it looks like it could be a while before they make a ruling.

When I was going through CD and V events and hearings history for their cases (available on the Idaho icourt portal) I found it REALLY interesting LVs attorney filed a motion in support of joinder and CDs attorney filed a motion objecting to joinder. Im hoping this signals the start of each of them pushing their own individual agendas and maybe even perhaps one of them flipping