Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #5

[tresir2012]

All deaths at the hand of another are homicides/murders.

Is that correct? So why wasn't Alex charged with murder? I thought all unnatural deaths were homicides but that murder was premeditated usually. If the homicide was self defence then it is not murder. That's what I thought anyway. Maybe USA is different terminology.

 

[indicolite22]

I've wondered if it really was a paintball gun OR is it possible Chad suggested/told Tammy that's what it was? 'Just seems suspicious with LE utilizing metal detectors at the home near driveway

Tammy asked the masked man "What do you think you're doing?" several times, so she probably wasn't taking him too seriously (or seriously enough).

 

[Ohmeohmy]

@Idaholocal, thanks so much for this explanation!

So, it sounds like the more 'fringe believers' could very well be hiding in plain sight and attending weekly services all over in their local LDS wards, so long as they at least publicly towed the mainstream LDS line.

Its interesting because the mainstream LDS church clearly has a focus on preparedness and self reliance. But this mainstream focus has been twisted and turned in various ways by a variety of people it seems for financial gain it seems. I do wonder though if the CD motivation in his efforts is purely financial or have he (and Lori) crossed over into the delusional category with their beliefs? I have to admit to thinking that the comments made by Charles in the divorce legal documents posted by Reporter Lum in Phoenix regarding Lori beliefs and actions to be highly disturbing. But, given Lori's history as what appears to be a masterful liar and manipulator I'm not sure what to believe.

Going through the Lori family and Alex in particular gives a whole cast of characters in this sad story of possible folks that might help Lori at the expense potentially of the lives of the 2 missing children. It just seems that the family works hard to protect Lori at all costs for reasons that are yet unclear.

Were members of Lori's family/Cox extended family afraid of her as they knew what she was capable of doing?

Why did Alex continue to do Lori's bidding it seems for years at a time?

Would Alex have been capable of murdering JJ and Tylee at Lori's request or would he have tried to find another way to simply remove them from Lori's grasp?

Alex it appears had opportunity as he seemed to be present in Rexburg and AZ around the time that the 2 children went missing IMO.

Did Lori's family/Cox extended family realise that JJ and Tylee were at risk and did they do anything to safeguard the children or were they part of the plot to facilitate Lori's vision of a possibly 'new life' with Chad in preparation for the end of the world in July 2020?

I do wonder also if CD is now communicating with any of his followers via an alternative online network now given that the PAP connection was shut down (or so we have been told - do hope LE has fully checked this out).

I do wonder though if AVOW continues to offer CD an online mechanism for connection to followers/interested parties? I don't believe we have seen any comment from AVOW similar to what was said by PAP. I do wonder though if they continue to support the efforts of CD? If so, this would be disturbing IMO.

MOO

*My opinion..
As active member of LDS Church, while following this odd case closely...I totally thought of members of my own Ward (Congregation) who would fit in this profile. (maybe 2 who had made odd comments about government and living off the grid..one was made from the pulpit in a talk a few yrs ago. You could feel the entire congregation bristle. The guy hasnt spoken in church again haha) You would never know. Most of us are just normal people who work, pay taxes while making
sure our kids get a good education. I would be curious if the members in the Wards saw red flags of twisting LDS teachings and putting them in this bizarre sub category.

 

[renarde]

"At one point during the fight, Vallow struck his brother-in-law in the head with a baseball bat. Soon after, Vallow was shot by his brother-in-law. After he shot Vallow, the brother-in-law called 911 and performed CPR on Vallow until emergency medical personnel arrived on-scene.

Vallow’s estranged wife and brother-in-law were transported to the Chandler Police Department for questioning. The two were released with no arrests and no charges filed at this time. When completed, the case will be sent to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office for review."

Man Shot & Killed by Family Member – Chandler Police Department

 

[tresir2012]

The status of Chad's children is unknown other than what we know from Chad's atty who made a statement last week - see below link to EIN article. Chad's children are not believed to be cooperating with LE.

Parents of missing Rexburg children issue statement, attorney says they are ‘loving’ and ‘devoted’ | East Idaho News

From the link in the E Idaho News quoted.

"The Chandler Arizona Police Department is investigating the death of Charles Anthony Vallow, the estranged husband of Lori. On July 11, Vallow was shot and killed by Lori’s brother, Alexander L. Cox, in a family fight.



Charles Vallow | Linkedin profile photo
According to Fox10 in Phoenix police in Chandler say first responders found Vallow with two gunshot wounds in the chest. Investigators told reporters the estranged couple began arguing when Cox stepped in, and a physical fight ensued. Vallow reportedly hit Cox with a baseball bat, and investigators believe Cox fatally shot him.

Cox died Dec. 12 in Gilbert, Arizona. His death and Vallow’s are active cases and are under investigation, the Chandler Police Department told EastIdahoNews.com on Monday."

 

[fred&edna]

Is that correct? So why wasn't Alex charged with murder? I thought all unnatural deaths were homicides but that murder was premeditated usually. If the homicide was self defence then it is not murder. That's what I thought anyway. Maybe USA is different terminology.

There is excusable homicide... dependent upon circumstances surrounding the incident. I'm not an attorney, tho.

 

[nopynono]

"At one point during the fight, Vallow struck his brother-in-law in the head with a baseball bat. Soon after, Vallow was shot by his brother-in-law. After he shot Vallow, the brother-in-law called 911 and performed CPR on Vallow until emergency medical personnel arrived on-scene.

Vallow’s estranged wife and brother-in-law were transported to the Chandler Police Department for questioning. The two were released with no arrests and no charges filed at this time. When completed, the case will be sent to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office for review."

Man Shot & Killed by Family Member – Chandler Police Department

Not really relevant, but I remember a post on nextdoor in my neighborhood about the incident. There had been a lot of complaints about people still regularly setting off leftover fireworks from the 4th. Someone closer to me had been setting off ones that shook windows for a few days and people were getting increasingly annoyed at the giant booms. When Charles was shot many people commented on the firework thread, thinking it had to be the same person who was setting them off. Someone else commented that the sound came from a totally different direction than the others, an another person said they noticed a ton of police cars on the street where Charles was shot and figured out it was likely gunshots, not fireworks, and from a totally different location.

 

[snoflake20]

Home Page - OME Case Status If you look up Leland Charles Vallow's autopsy on this site (case #2019-05897), the manner of death is listed as homicide. But that just means "All deaths at the hand of another are homicides/murders." Correct? Not that LE is investigating the death as a homicide?

 

[mickey2942]

*My opinion..
As active member of LDS Church, while following this odd case closely...I totally thought of members of my own Ward (Congregation) who would fit in this profile. (maybe 2 who had made odd comments about government and living off the grid..one was made from the pulpit in a talk a few yrs ago. You could feel the entire congregation bristle. The guy hasnt spoken in church again haha) You would never know. Most of us are just normal people who work, pay taxes while making
sure our kids get a good education. I would be curious if the members in the Wards saw red flags of twisting LDS teachings and putting them in this bizarre sub category.

What I have seen, is that church members who have "extreme" views outside of the normal LDS party line, are usually marginalized at church. They don't get picked for any type of leadership roles, or any roles at all. They may even volunteer to teach a lesson on "Preparedness", and it is politely declined. These folks generally start to feel the "standoffish" attitude, and generally they leave the ward, to find their own extreme niche.

It is a slow progression. And generally not overt. Unless the member is very extreme, and then, leadership does step in, with a meeting to discuss the situation with the member, to offer some "counseling". I have seen it happen, several times.

 

[Gardener1850]

Are Chad's children safe/unharmed/not crazy?

They are all adults and appear to be accounted for/safe (the youngest is 18 or 19 and on his mission in another country, the rest are either married or living in the home that was searched on Friday). I don't think we can answer the last part of that question. (Not only do we not know, it wouldn't be victim friendly to speculate. MOO).

 

[tresir2012]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

@renarde and @afitzy posted links (thanks) and I have copied an excerpt from E Idaho news which is what I wanted from you. It doesn't say the kids witnessed the murder though so where is your source for that statement? I don't want proof but just an allowed source as required for posted facts. If it is just your opinion that the kids witnessed the murder, you need to clarify that in your posts.

 

[janewall]

I'm wondering if the July 2020 date could have been moved (by vision or law-evading necessity) to an earlier date this year? No way to know, I suppose.

I suppose if you're a god, you can shift space and time as needed.

 

[carbuff]

Minor comment/correction on the timeline:

19 Oct 2019 - Tammy is found dead by family members in her ID home at 202 N 1900 E, Rexburg; The ME in Rexburg only spent about 4 hrs on her autopsy and ruled her death “natural causes"

Four hours is at the long end of a normal autopsy. Citing PBS's "Autopsy 101" for that information. Things To Know - Autopsy 101 | Post Mortem | FRONTLINE | PBS, "Autopsies usually take two to four hours to perform. Preliminary results can be released within 24 hours, but the full results of an autopsy may take up to six weeks to prepare."

So it doesn't seem like the autopsy was hasty or negligent.

 

[Friday Fan]

"At one point during the fight, Vallow struck his brother-in-law in the head with a baseball bat. Soon after, Vallow was shot by his brother-in-law. After he shot Vallow, the brother-in-law called 911 and performed CPR on Vallow until emergency medical personnel arrived on-scene.

Vallow’s estranged wife and brother-in-law were transported to the Chandler Police Department for questioning. The two were released with no arrests and no charges filed at this time. When completed, the case will be sent to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office for review."

Man Shot & Killed by Family Member – Chandler Police Department

BBM: Says case will be sent to Maricopa County Attorney's Office for review.

For the most part, I don't fault the police here, they don't have all the records. However, Maricopa County would have all of the records and if that is the case, I blame Maricopa County for not looking into this further.

Per source in another group, Lori and Charles rented the house in Chandler beginning in June 2019. I'm not sure if Lori's previous residence was also in Chandler or another house in the Phoenix area.

 

[renarde]

Home Page - OME Case Status If you look up Leland Charles Vallow's autopsy on this site (case #2019-05897), the manner of death is listed as homicide. But that just means "All deaths at the hand of another are homicides/murders." Correct? Not that LE is investigating the death as a homicide?

Interesting. Lori's brother, husband #3, and husband#4 are all listed there.

 

[janewall]

I certainly hope that all of this mocking and smugness, from several different groups, indicates that the children are alive and just being hidden. That the groups feel like they are just superior/smarter/ getting something over the authorities (they will be caught eventually). Because if they are acting this way without knowing for sure the kids are alive, or even knowing something worse- well there is a very toasty place awaiting them. Moo.

Keep in mind that they are acting this way knowing that 2 men and 1 woman directly related to the matter are deceased within the past 6 months. At very least that is called whistling past the graveyard. Moreover, mocking other people's life tragedy is never a good look. IMO the people/groups doing this are scum based simply on their attitude toward those grieving, including a young autistic child who just lost the father he loved from gun violence, and a vulnerable teenage stepdaughter who witnessed at least part of that horrible scene. I hope they're feeling a little of that toasty warmth right now.

(edited for clarity)

 

[Gardener1850]

Minor comment/correction on the timeline:

19 Oct 2019 - Tammy is found dead by family members in her ID home at 202 N 1900 E, Rexburg; The ME in Rexburg only spent about 4 hrs on her autopsy and ruled her death “natural causes"

Four hours is at the long end of a normal autopsy. Citing PBS's "Autopsy 101" for that information. Things To Know - Autopsy 101 | Post Mortem | FRONTLINE | PBS, "Autopsies usually take two to four hours to perform. Preliminary results can be released within 24 hours, but the full results of an autopsy may take up to six weeks to prepare."

So it doesn't seem like the autopsy was hasty or negligent.

Thanks carbuff. The "only 4 hours" part is based on a quote from Tammy's dad.*

It sounds like she did have a basic autopsy, but her dad was dismayed in his comments that the coroner didn't do a more thorough job the first time and catch that her death was suspicious, so that additional toxicology could be run. MOO.

*ETA: And now that I have said that I can't find the quote. Ack! Anyone else remember this or am I losing it? Too many details to keep straight here, but I will remove the "only" from the next draft to make it more factually accurate.

ETA2: Another minor detail, but I also learned since making the timeline that Idaho counties do not all have ME's. They have elected coroners who may or may not have a medical degree: LATEST: Possible evidence found in search of missing Rexburg kids
That tidbit really surprised me.
So, I should have put coroner instead of ME.

 

[janewall]

Interesting. Lori's brother, husband #3, and husband#4 are all listed there.

I think that's simply because they all have death certificates through the Maricopa ME's office, not that they've all been classified as homicides! (Although that would reflect fascinating, and swift, developments!)

 

[jjenny]

Minor comment/correction on the timeline:

19 Oct 2019 - Tammy is found dead by family members in her ID home at 202 N 1900 E, Rexburg; The ME in Rexburg only spent about 4 hrs on her autopsy and ruled her death “natural causes"

Four hours is at the long end of a normal autopsy. Citing PBS's "Autopsy 101" for that information. Things To Know - Autopsy 101 | Post Mortem | FRONTLINE | PBS, "Autopsies usually take two to four hours to perform. Preliminary results can be released within 24 hours, but the full results of an autopsy may take up to six weeks to prepare."

So it doesn't seem like the autopsy was hasty or negligent.

If she had an autopsy that wasn't hasty, why would there be need to exhume the body? Frankly, I don't believe this information to be accurate. She might have spend four hours laying somewhere, but I don't think an autopsy was done at all, other than maybe just looking at the body superficially.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Home Page - OME Case Status

Alexander Lamar Cox = Pending