Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

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Randocalrissian said:
Wait! They need to question Tylee? Somehow she is involved in this email? Could this be more info that she somehow witnessed? And also, somehow Lori’s brother Adam was pulled into this evidence of an affair??? There is a lot of new info buried in this statement!

ETA clarity on Adam’s evident role in this email exchange.
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Oh, yes, so here comes Adam's part...
 
Considering said:
I’m thinking that Charles did get in touch with Tammy who then asked Chad some questions. Chad may very well have told Lori what had happened. As I recall on the morning that Charles was killed, Lori supposedly took Charles’s phone and wouldn’t give it back to him. Was this the same time that she was demanding to know why he had been in contact with her brother? Did she take the phone to see what Charles was writing and to whom? Did Charles try to ask Tylee that morning if Chad had been to their home and stayed overnight? I need to go back and reread the police reports from the day Charles was killed. It’s 2:00 a.m. here, though, and I have to get up in the morning.
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Excellent points! Let’s hope LE is all over that line of thinking.
 
LDS social scientist said:
I'll give a shot at trying to explain some broad outlines of this. But it's not something I know much about -- certainly never spent all that much time thinking about in my day-to-day Mormon life. Others may be able to fill in more details.

I think at its broadest, the Church of the Firstborn is based on the idea that the set of people receiving God's greatest glory in the afterlife (Mormons believe there are various "degrees of glory") is not equivalent to those who are members of the LDS church currently. Instead, those who belong to the Church of the Firstborn are believed to be those who have kept Christ's commandments and their covenants with Him most faithfully and consistently throughout their lives. So basically, you might say it's Christ's heavenly, rather than earthly church.

This is built on the Biblical reference to Jesus as the "firstborn," and appears more directly linked to the "Church of the Firstborn" in a couple of places in the Doctrine and Covenants (a series of several revelations, codified as scripture, that Mormons believe God gave to Joseph Smith (and a couple others)).

So at its base, it's not that complicated, I think. But when trying to understand how Mormons use the idea, the issue becomes much more complex. It's a term I think most Mormons are familiar with (esp. those who attend Mormon temples), but at the same time, it's not one that LDS people spend a lot of time thinking about in a practical way. It's more sort of the idea, I think, of being a promised blessing in the next life, available to those who have lived especially well and faithfully. The church generally doesn't teach all that much about it and I think most members are satisfied with not worrying about it too much other than as a desired goal, one to be assigned in the next life.

But for those who are especially interested in ideas about Christ's Second Coming, the Church of the Firstborn takes greater significance. I think many of these end-of-day-interested types believe that the Church of the Firstborn will be established on the earth in the build-up to the Second Coming. So from what I've read about the milieu of the groups from which Daybell emerged, many of these people are quite concerned about the details of this establishment of the Church of the Firstborn on earth. And, unsurprisingly, there's a great deal of debate and disagreement among them as to what shape it will take, who will be involved, the role or non-role of the institutional LDS church, when it can be expected, and so on.

So Mike Stroud, who was linked by one poster, might have certain ideas that share a family resemblance to those of Daybell (or Denver Snuffer, another prominent name among these types), but I also think they have disagreements that may make it hard for those who follow one version to fully get on board with someone else who claims to know the true way.

In Daybell's case, it sounds like there may be the sense that the 144,000 are perhaps equivalent to the Church of the Firstborn (though I can't be sure from just the news report). In any case, it does sound like Daybell felt that at this particular time in history, it was important that this "church" be established and its leadership hierarchy strongly identified.

As I've said elsewhere, I have very little clue as to how far along in this process Daybell may feel he is.
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BBM
Thank you for the reminder that while many of the splinter groups' ideas/versions cross over, we really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes or (especially) in each individual's mind. Moo.
 
renarde said:
"Police confirmed they are looking into the email obtained by KSL TV, which Vallow allegedly sent on June 29 to his other brother-in-law, Adam Cox.

“It is suspicious and it draws various questions that we would need to ask Lori and Tylee and possibly Chad to get to the bottom of it,” said Sergeant Jason McClimans with the Chandler Police Department in a phone interview.

In his message to Adam Cox, Charles Vallow claimed Lori Vallow created an email alias for him and used it to send a message to Chad Daybell the day before, inviting him to visit Arizona and write a book.

Charles Vallow suspected his wife wrote the letter, pretending to be him.

Excerpts from the message said in part: “I would gladly fly you down here early next week…you could stay in our guest room like before. I hate to take you away from your family, but I would definitely make it worth your time. With Admiration, Charles.”

Arizona Police Investigating 'Suspicious' Email In Connection To Lori Vallow's Former Husband's Death
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Reading that letter you have to ask yourself if Chad got in over his head.
It sounds to me, like Chad was being manipulated by Lori, at least with what this letter is stating.

Thinking outside of the Box, pure speculation - JMO

- CD gets suckered into staying in the "guest room" with CV & LV.
- LV seduces CD, and he knows now he is over his head. He is freaking out now.
- TB finds out about this, and threatens to expose him. CV called her, and they both figured out what was going on.
- CD freaks out. Contacts LV telling her they've got a problem, TD knows and CV told her.
- TR recruits AC to help with damage control
- LV manipulates CD into killing off each others spouses, or they concoct the plan together. They justify it, by saying their spouses are now zombies, they were predestined to be with each other, etc.
- LV & CD kill their spouses. LV screws up, TR she knows too much (loose end)
-LV kills CV first, looks like 12 days after the email was sent (I think)
- CD kills TD later. (Not sure of the exact date, but w/in a few weeks)
- LV convinces CD to help her take care of TR.
- TR is taken out.
- JJ starts getting suspicious.
- JJ is taken out

I am probably off on this, what does everybody think?

MOO
 
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Whaddayano said:
how can i find that list? i dont think i'm googling the right terms
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It was reported in several news articles, search Vallow Daybell FBI watchlist and cult or terrorist organization, it should come up, The East Idaho news video I believe also talks about it, it's the interview titled something like "more about the cult from Insider"

She (the insider) def. refers to the AVOW stuff + PaPP and even Church of the firstborn info. IIRC It's a really interesting video!!
 
Redvines86 said:
So Chad had stayed in Charles and Lori's guest room? But didn't know about the kids? Whatevs! MOO
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Did Chad really stay with them in November 2018 when he was in the area for a PAP conference? When was the letter to Chad from "Charles" sent (if at all)? The invitation was for the following week. If it was sent, did Chad respond to the letter?
 
LDS social scientist said:
Sounds like the possibility of Tammy having possessed dangerous information regarding Chad and Lori is rising, doesn't it?
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But dangerous to whom? Cheating might be a problem for mormons and spouses but it is hardly otherwise dangerous. So Tammy finds out Chad is cheating and files for divorce. That's a minor threat to his source of income but I'm sure he could spin it as her having been taken over by demons or whatever. I think we have to assume his followers are unintelligent, gullible, and likely to believe what he tells them rather than logic and reason.
 
renarde said:
"Charles Vallow expressed concern about that message to Adam Cox, saying, “I’m not sure of the relationship with her and Chad Daybell but they are up to something…She will not explain it…I am going to send it to Chad Daybell’s wife. Her name is Tammy and I found her email address on their website too…I’ve got her cell number too.”

Arizona Police Investigating 'Suspicious' Email In Connection To Lori Vallow's Former Husband's Death
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Do we have a date that this email was sent/received?
 

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Portiz34 said:
Oh, yes, so here comes Adam's part...
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To be fair, as far as we know, it was simply that Charles felt comfortable enough with his brother in law, Adam, that he could discuss this potential crisis in his marriage with him.

ETA: the screenshot provided by Leney, showing the actual email confirms this.
 
renarde said:
"Police confirmed they are looking into the email obtained by KSL TV, which Vallow allegedly sent on June 29 to his other brother-in-law, Adam Cox.

“It is suspicious and it draws various questions that we would need to ask Lori and Tylee and possibly Chad to get to the bottom of it,” said Sergeant Jason McClimans with the Chandler Police Department in a phone interview.

In his message to Adam Cox, Charles Vallow claimed Lori Vallow created an email alias for him and used it to send a message to Chad Daybell the day before, inviting him to visit Arizona and write a book.

Charles Vallow suspected his wife wrote the letter, pretending to be him.

Excerpts from the message said in part: “I would gladly fly you down here early next week…you could stay in our guest room like before. I hate to take you away from your family, but I would definitely make it worth your time. With Admiration, Charles.”

Arizona Police Investigating 'Suspicious' Email In Connection To Lori Vallow's Former Husband's Death
Click to expand...
Holy moly!! They are soooo up a creek now with out a paddle! MOO
 
indicolite22 said:
Charles' letter to Adam also mentions the need to question Tylee. I wonder what was her knowledge of Lori's suspicious activities and if her disappearance is linked to it.
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Oh how the plot thickens! On June 29th? Yeah, she’s hosed. There is absolutely no way that “self-defense” claim will stick. Moo
 
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