Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

[diggndeeperstill]

No problem. I deleted my reply since it didn't relate to CV's job anyway.

I am not sure we can sleuth him. But the name in the letter was his company name. It was mentioned in docs somewhere else as well. Maybe divorce filings. You just had the wrong website I believe.

Right! If Tammy looked that site up, she would have found that out without CV ever contacting her. It comes up as an Episcopal site on google.

eta, also a church insurance company.

 

[AmandaSkis]

She doesn't have to.

Does the government have a right to demand a parent produce their children on demand, if there has never been an allegation of abuse?

No one else has any legal standing for custody of JJ or Tylee. Why is the State of Idaho pursuing this? Legally.

Lori Vallow has not been charged with any wrongdoing in connection with the death of Charles Vallow, or Alex Cox.

Furthermore, Chad Daybell has not been charged with any crime either.

I am not an advocate for Lori Vallow. But pointing out, that INMO, the State of Idaho is skating on some very thin ice, legally.

Please don't argue with me, unless you have an actual law, from the State of Idaho statutes that contradicts this.

Those are good questions. If Lori was collecting SSI for JJ but didn’t have him in her care, then yes, the government can require that she show she has JJ. Same thing with Tylee. If Lori was receiving survivor benefits on behalf of Tylee due to the death of Tylee’s father, then yes, the government has the right to require that Lori show she has Tylee.

If no federal funds are being received on behalf of/for either child, then I agree that it’s a tough case for the state to demand to see the kids.

Having said that, do you follow many missing person cases, especially ones involving children? Because what has happened in other cases is that a child goes missing and is later found deceased. People are then upset that no one saw the missing child, no one asked about the missing child, and people are outraged that a child could just go missing with no one seeming to care.

And, finally, please note that there are no press releases or statements from Lori in which she says the children are safe. She could make that statement through her attorney but she has chosen to say nothing.

 

[BigAl16]

She doesn't have to.

Does the government have a right to demand a parent produce their children on demand, if there has never been an allegation of abuse?

No one else has any legal standing for custody of JJ or Tylee. Why is the State of Idaho pursuing this? Legally.

Lori Vallow has not been charged with any wrongdoing in connection with the death of Charles Vallow, or Alex Cox.

Furthermore, Chad Daybell has not been charged with any crime either.

I am not an advocate for Lori Vallow. But pointing out, that INMO, the State of Idaho is skating on some very thin ice, legally.

Please don't argue with me, unless you have an actual law, from the State of Idaho statutes that contradicts this.

Isn't a request of a welfare check essentially an allegation of abuse? I'd got so far as to argue, especially given JJ's history, that cutting him off from Kay and Larry if they talked to him previously as much as they claim was abuse on some level. The state of Idaho, just like every other state, has a department called (depending on the state) something like Child Protective Services. I assume CPS has "legal standing" to verify, when there are allegations of abuse, that the abuse isn't happening. One the police showed up to do the welfare check and Lori replied with lies, LE would have been negligent to not follow up in any way they could.

 

[mickey2942]

I’m sure you’ll find your answer if you research laws concerning welfare checks. What’s the point of doing one if you’re not gonna follow it through to it’s conclusion? Either the children are okay, or they’re not.

But, does the State have legal standing to demand that a parent produce a child on demand?

 

[mickey2942]

Isn't a request of a welfare check essentially an allegation of abuse? I'd got so far as to argue, especially given JJ's history, that cutting him off from Kay and Larry if they talked to him previously as much as they claim was abuse on some level. The state of Idaho, just like every other state, has a department called (depending on the state) something like Child Protective Services. I assume CPS has "legal standing" to verify, when there are allegations of abuse, that the abuse isn't happening. One the police showed up to do the welfare check and Lori replied with lies, LE would have been negligent to not follow up in any way they could.

But the State of Idaho has to prove that there has been abuse.

That is the crux of this situation.

 

[investigatefred]

Seriously?? With this method of thinking, there'd be no reason for CPS to operate or any welfare checks on people in general. How many "allegations of abuse" do you think are necessary?? Too much is swept under the rug already and/or not called in when there is legit abuse or other wrong-doing witnessed by others.

If CV was the only one who died, yeah, maybe it could have been brushed off....but you add the remainder of the circumstances of several others with no reported health issues turning up dead, people being shot at, two newfound widows suddenly marrying days later, telling people they have no kids, large life insurance policies cashed in, etc, the red flags start popping up like fireworks on the fourth of July!

When a special needs child who reportedly used to contact family members multiple times daily suddenly goes silent, you can bet your sweet potatoes someone will look into it! These families are missing these children, so yes, I'd say the government has every right to secure the details of their welfare to ensure they are at minimum alive and well. If she can show they are, kudos to her and she can go on her merry way and live happily ever after.

And no, I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV...not here to argue with you or anyone else either, and please take no offense, but your post makes my head scream AYFKM??!

MOO ...

She doesn't have to.

Does the government have a right to demand a parent produce their children on demand, if there has never been an allegation of abuse?

No one else has any legal standing for custody of JJ or Tylee. Why is the State of Idaho pursuing this? Legally.

Lori Vallow has not been charged with any wrongdoing in connection with the death of Charles Vallow, or Alex Cox.

Furthermore, Chad Daybell has not been charged with any crime either.

I am not an advocate for Lori Vallow. But pointing out, that INMO, the State of Idaho is skating on some very thin ice, legally.

Please don't argue with me, unless you have an actual law, from the State of Idaho statutes that contradicts this.

 

[Dontknow?]

But the State of Idaho has to prove that there has been abuse.

That is the crux of this situation.

True. But there must not be any history of her supporting them. I can't wait to hear that explanation. "I gave them a baggie full of cash".

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

She doesn't have to.

Does the government have a right to demand a parent produce their children on demand, if there has never been an allegation of abuse?

No one else has any legal standing for custody of JJ or Tylee. Why is the State of Idaho pursuing this? Legally.

Lori Vallow has not been charged with any wrongdoing in connection with the death of Charles Vallow, or Alex Cox.

Furthermore, Chad Daybell has not been charged with any crime either.

I am not an advocate for Lori Vallow. But pointing out, that INMO, the State of Idaho is skating on some very thin ice, legally.

Please don't argue with me, unless you have an actual law, from the State of Idaho statutes that contradicts this.

Child Welfare Standards
This might not be the law/statutes that you were looking for, but the process in many states goes like this:
1. Someone (anyone really-family member, mandated reporter, neighbor) calls CPS with a concern. CPS asks a few basic questions.
2. Based on the answers to those questions, CPS assigns a case worker and decides to either call or go physically to the residence. Sometimes it can get really crazy and CPS can go talk to the child at school or daycare, without the parent knowing.
3. The file is either closed, or continues to be investigated (obviously this is what happened in this case, and going back there has been a TON of concerning information, certainly enough for CPS to be worried).
4. This is where it becomes most pertinent: Based on the findings of the investigation (which can take days to months), a recommendation is made to either close it out as unsubstantiated, criminally charge the guardian/custodian (Lori), and/or bring it to civil court to move for custody (often the Attorney General's office is involved here). A guardian ad litem would be appointed to represent the best interest of the children.

So you can see that the State of Idaho most likely acted on the recommendation of CPS, and that how it was able to move it as far along as it has gone up to now. I dont know how sturdy that ice is. Moo.

 

[fred&edna]

Right! If Tammy looked that site up, she would have found that out without CV ever contacting her. It comes up as an Episcopal site on google.

eta, also a church insurance company.

LIFE Planning was in the divorce documents - It was discussed in Thread 6

 

[303gmf]

I know the post office has the availability to "email" you images of mail that is coming your way. Do they only scan such images if you have requested this for your address, or is it something that is done on all mail, and therefore LE could potentially have the ability to see at least the images of envelopes, packages, etc of WHO was sending/receiving mail at this PO Box??

Anyone on here work for USPS that could answer?

Mine was a suggested via USPS email to sing up for mail alerts to receive them, quick sign up & daily alerts of what’s on the way with photos.
An occasional daily one states no image available and those are usually advertising material

 

[janx]

Well, I dunno. Lori sure blabbered a lot when Charles was killed. Alex claimed Lori wasn't even there during the shooting. Alex also claimed he was there to do some fun things with his sister. Lori admitted she had Alex there because she expected trouble, and that she was present in the house during the shooting. Let her try to explain where the kids are, and lets see what comes out.

And Tylee said that her mom sent her into the house just after the gunshots/murder to get mom's purse, but Tylee didn't see her stepdad's dead body. Oh my goodness, that poor kid!

 

[Gardener1850]

I typed up the full text of both letters for reference and put it in the media thread:

Email written to Chad 28 Jun 2019 under alias account pretending to be Charles:

Hello Chad,
I hope you are doing well. This is Charles Vallow from Arizona. We really enjoyed having you stay with us back in November when you came to the Preparing A People Conference. I appreciated you taking time to talk to me about the book I've been working on. Well, more than six months later I still haven't made much progress on it, but I feel an urgency to get it done. As the Managing Partner of RITE Planning Group I'm going to have the opportunity to speak at various conventions beginning in the fall, but everyone says I need to have a book available that summarizes my life and shares the principles I follow.

So I will cut to the chase. I'm willing to pay you well to help me get this book into shape as my ghostwriter. I really liked you autobiography and the tone you took in sharing experiences without preaching. Is there any way you could come here for a couple of days and help me get the book underway? I feel talking in person would be much more valuable than a phone call or video chat, mainly because I would like you to read through some of my journals and explain to me how the publishing industry works. It would help me know whether I truly have a book in me, and whether you want to team up on it. I played minor league baseball and have plenty of stories that my audience could relate to, along with the knowledge I've gained running my own company. So I do feel the book would contain valuable information even beyond the convention circuit.

I'm out of town until Saturday, but I would gladly fly you down here early next week before the holiday and cover your expense. You could stay in our guest room like before, or in a hotel if you prefer. I hate to take you away from your family, but I know this book is vital to my speaking success. I understand if you don't want to take part in the project, but I would definitely make it worth your time.

With admiration,
Charles

Email sent 29 June 2019 from Charles Vallow to Lori's brother Adam Cox:

Adam
Open this letter and see what she did. I'm not sure if the relationship with her and Chad Daybell but they are up to something. She created this email alias for me as I've never set this one up. She sent this yesterday and I guess she forgot all her emails are on the computer at my house. I asked her to explain it and she started blaming you, Brandon and me for perpetuating a scheme against her. Just more of her paranoia. She will not explain it. I am going to send it to Chad Daybell's wife. Her name is Tammy and I found her email address on their website. I've got her cell number too. Sounds very suspicious to me. What do you think? Whenever she gets caught doing this kind of stiff she starts blaming everybody else. Mostly me, you and Brandon. Brandon and I are the victims of her craziness. I wish you luck trying to help her. I was the only one brave enough to try to get her help in January and look what happened to me. The whole family put a scarlet letter on me. Maybe now they can see what they're up against.
Thanks

Chandler PD confirms investigation into an email from Charles Vallow before his death

 

[BigAl16]

But the State of Idaho has to prove that there has been abuse.

That is the crux of this situation.

They have to prove there has been abuse to convict her of abuse. Hopefully they'd have evidence of abuse before charging her for abuse. But they haven't charged her for abuse.

They have charged her with other crimes which they were able to convince a judge that they had enough evidence of her having committed the crimes for the judge to sign an arrest warrant. The most serious of those crimes is desertion of a child.

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

Because there are missing children and he is likely to have heard stories, as we all have, of bodies being disposed in freshly dug graves the night before a burial IMO.
:-(

Should we be looking at burials around the dates of 9th and 24th September in the Rexburg area. Did Lori, AlC or MBP have a large chest freezer in their garage by any chance?

Also his basic knowledge of how deep a body needs to be buried for wildlife not to become an issue, for decomp. not to smell, for the local ecology/ temps times of yr ground can be dug etc.

Not to mention the desensitization to Dead Bodies, and almost routine treatment of them, no longer seeing them as people but objects.... All in a days work. MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Child Welfare Standards
This might not be the law/statutes that you were looking for, but the process in many states goes like this:
1. Someone (anyone really-family member, mandated reporter, neighbor) calls CPS with a concern. CPS asks a few basic questions.
2. Based on the answers to those questions, CPS assigns a case worker and decides to either call or go physically to the residence. Sometimes it can get really crazy and CPS can go talk to the child at school or daycare, without the parent knowing.
3. The file is either closed, or continues to be investigated (obviously this is what happened in this case, and going back there has been a TON of concerning information, certainly enough for CPS to be worried).
4. This is where it becomes most pertinent: Based on the findings of the investigation (which can take days to months), a recommendation is made to either close it out as unsubstantiated, criminally charge the guardian/custodian (Lori), and/or bring it to civil court to move for custody (often the Attorney General's office is involved here). A guardian ad litem would be appointed to represent the best interest of the children.

So you can see that the State of Idaho most likely acted on the recommendation of CPS, and that how it was able to move it as far along as it has gone up to now. I dont know how sturdy that ice is. Moo.

Right, but even the "abandonment" has to be for a full year.

I read the statutes very carefully, and Idaho has probably one of the strongest laws that are "Pro Parent" that I have seen.

Hopefully, the police have more evidence to charge Lori Vallow. Just because there are a lot of deaths, her husband, her brother, her husband's former wife, that can't be actually used in court, as "evidence" against Lori, in regards to her missing children.

The issue of psychotropic medications is of potential evidence, unless Lori stopped the meds for JJ before she came to Idaho. We don't have any facts regarding this.

It is a very interesting case to follow. I hope that the State of Idaho prevails.

 

[Countem]

I typed up the full text of both letters for reference and put it in the media thread:

Email written to Chad 28 Jun 2019 under alias account pretending to be Charles:

Hello Chad,
I hope you are doing well. This is Charles Vallow from Arizona. We really enjoyed having you stay with us back in November when you came to the Preparing A People Conference. I appreciated you taking time to talk to me about the book I've been working on. Well, more than six months later I still haven't made much progress on it, but I feel an urgency to get it done. As the Managing Partner of RITE Planning Group I'm going to have the opportunity to speak at various conventions beginning in the fall, but everyone says I need to have a book available that summarizes my life and shares the principles I follow.

So I will cut to the chase. I'm willing to pay you well to help me get this book into shape as my ghostwriter. I really liked you autobiography and the tone you took in sharing experiences without preaching. Is there any way you could come here for a couple of days and help me get the book underway? I feel talking in person would be much more valuable than a phone call or video chat, mainly because I would like you to read through some of my journals and explain to me how the publishing industry works. It would help me know whether I truly have a book in me, and whether you want to team up on it. I played minor league baseball and have plenty of stories that my audience could relate to, along with the knowledge I've gained running my own company. So I do feel the book would contain valuable information even beyond the convention circuit.

I'm out of town until Saturday, but I would gladly fly you down here early next week before the holiday and cover your expense. You could stay in our guest room like before, or in a hotel if you prefer. I hate to take you away from your family, but I know this book is vital to my speaking success. I understand if you don't want to take part in the project, but I would definitely make it worth your time.

With admiration,
Charles

Email sent 29 June 2019 from Charles Vallow to Lori's brother Adam Cox:

Adam
Open this letter and see what she did. I'm not sure if the relationship with her and Chad Daybell but they are up to something. She created this email alias for me as I've never set this one up. She sent this yesterday and I guess she forgot all her emails are on the computer at my house. I asked her to explain it and she started blaming you, Brandon and me for perpetuating a scheme against her. Just more of her paranoia. She will not explain it. I am going to send it to Chad Daybell's wife. Her name is Tammy and I found her email address on their website. I've got her cell number too. Sounds very suspicious to me. What do you think? Whenever she gets caught doing this kind of stiff she starts blaming everybody else. Mostly me, you and Brandon. Brandon and I are the victims of her craziness. I wish you luck trying to help her. I was the only one brave enough to try to get her help in January and look what happened to me. The whole family put a scarlet letter on me. Maybe now they can see what they're up against.
Thanks

Chandler PD confirms investigation into an email from Charles Vallow before his death

I am a bit behind. Has the second message (from CV to AdC) been confirmed as real?

 

[Lyrarya]

But the State of Idaho has to prove that there has been abuse.

That is the crux of this situation.

Wait, I thought the state was going after neglect, not abuse.

 

[BigAl16]

Section 18-401 – Idaho State Legislature


18-401. DESERTION AND NONSUPPORT OF CHILDREN OR SPOUSE. Every person who:
(1) Having any child under the age of eighteen (18) years dependent upon him or her for care, education or support, deserts such child in any manner whatever, with intent to abandon it;
(2) Willfully omits, without lawful excuse, to furnish necessary food, clothing, shelter, or medical attendance for his or her child or children, or ward or wards; provided however, that the practice of a parent or guardian who chooses for his child treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to be a violation of the duty of care to such child;
(3) Having sufficient ability to provide for a spouse’s support, or who is able to earn the means for such spouse’s support, who willfully abandons and leaves a spouse in a destitute condition, or who refuses or neglects to provide such spouse with necessary food, clothing, shelter, or medical attendance, unless by the spouse’s misconduct he or she is justified in abandoning him or her;
Shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punishable by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by imprisonment for not to exceed fourteen (14) years, or both.
History:
[I.C., sec. 18-401, as added by 1972, ch. 336, sec. 1, p. 859; am. 1972, ch. 381, sec. 8, p. 1089; am. 2000, ch. 294, sec. 1, p. 1011.]

 

[mickey2942]

Wait, I thought the state was going after neglect, not abuse.

Either way, the State has the burden to prove neglect.

Lori doesn't have to disclose anything. They need to prove it.

What is the legal definition of "neglect"? How does the state actually prove that LV is "neglecting" her children?

Lori doesn't have to say anything. That is the problem.

 

[Redvines86]

Just to be clear where I stand, I think Chad and Lori have done things to deserve spending their lives behind bars, and I hope somebody, somehow figures out how to make that happen. I see them being able to get away with a lot, especially with the help of a great defense lawyer. MOO.