Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #26

[KABangtson]

No, the Mormon (not Morman) church doesn't believe in polygamy (at least in this life) although they did a couple hundred years ago. Some splinter groups from it do, but we have ZERO evidence or reason to believe that our POIs have any connection to any of those groups although people keep wanting to think they do.

MOO

Thank you for clarification and apologies on misspelling of Mormon.

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

I apologize if someone else has posted this (I am 20 pages behind now). I found out who one of these men are. Another WSer pointed me to his identity. I am pretty certain this is one of the men who sat behind Lori. He is the new magistrate judge in Madison County. Interesting side note - CD's lawyer was in the running for this job as well. MOO

New magistrate judge selected in Madison County | East Idaho News

Yep, that's totally him! Thank you!! I was wondering about it early thread b/c his expressions were vivid.... Also he kept looking directly at Lori when the charges were made..... watching her abhorrent expressions.

It makes sense to me why CD asked his kids not to attend btw. He would use the excuse of media hounding (which is true... but I doubt his only motive). It's possible that with Chads vice like grip on his kids being behind him and LV, even to the detriment of other relatives of theirs, that he doesn't want them in court to hear all the damning details... I'm not sure how much of the story they really have?!

We know he blatently lied to them, and his one son did make that strange statement about him doing "some bad things". But god only knows what crap he's feeding them, purely to further manipulate.

 

[TLG127]

Yes, saw it and discussed a lot early on.

Oh ok, sorry I'm am still catching up previous threads.txs

 

[BigAl16]

Thank you for clarification and apologies on misspelling of Mormon.

No need to apologize. I just get triggered by typos too easily.

MOO

 

[fuzzybutter]

Sorry I should have said In my opinion..unfortunately, this case is crazy and when the defendant gets all the rights, and her and the pit bull attorney are sharing laughs like it's a party.. The judge says no strange looks in courtroom and she's acting like the demon in the exorcist..and her son is sitting there in pieces..WTF..Where are your children?.. aren't the children's rights important. Sorry stupid rant..the prosecutor should have addressed more things JMO

Everyone should stop haranguing the attorneys on both sides. Yesterday was an arraignment, the purpose was to read the charges to the defendant and the public and discuss bail. Both of these things were done. In a more populous jurisdiction the entire event would have been over in 5 minutes. I am keeping track of 2 First degree homicide trials in the city I grew up in. The arraignments are cattle calls. Defendants are lined up in hall. They come into the court room one at a time. The state has a written 3-5 page complaint that is handed to the defendant. There is legal aid attorney standing there for all defendants. Judge set bail and date for next hearing and they are done. Next person comes in. homicide , DUI, burglary, sexual assault all charges are mixed together. This was the most detailed and time consuming arraignment I have ever seen. Neither attorney was making their case. And they both know that.

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

I’ve been thinking about this as well. It’s been mentioned on another site that they may have met another group at YNP. The appearance was then made to JV that TR was going off with her friends. It was also implied that the group was FLDS. They even went so far as to talk of remote hideouts in So. Dak. My head starts spinning when trying to grasp all of this, but with what’s transpired so far, almost nothing is beyond the realm of possibility, MOO.

I also wonder how much of it JJ would be able to grasp?? How severe was his Autism?
It's possible they fed him a story like this when he asked "Where's Tylee". I think though they likely told him the same thing they told the nanny, just to be safe. That Tylee had gone off to BYU, and would visit soon for laundry etc. Remember when Kay said the last time they facetimed with JJ it sounded like he had been coached and was reading... that whole conversation was only like 2 sentences.

JMO.

 

[idaidaidaho]

idaidaidaho,
I don't know if you you saw it (and I'm not caught up on the last thread yet) but, I was hoping you maybe knew about potential campgrounds/tent city locations or remote wooded spots maybe with a cabin, kinda near a church or stream where these groups have gone or go? Even on private land??
The area is sooo vast, and there seem to be a million potential places for these groups... But I believe if Chad had a specific spot, that was important, secure and secret to him, he may have chosen it for JJ and Tylee, alive or dead?!

You know so much about these groups, I thought maybe you would have some idea's. Possibly in Idaho, or Utah, any surrounding state that's a reasonable drive for CD.

MOO.

I don't know of anything like that.

 

[Nurse Gen]

In bodycam footage from a Chandler police interview with Cox, he told police that Lori had left her rental home with her children before Charles “came at me” and hit him in the head with a bat, which led Cox to go to the room he was staying in and grab his pistol and return to the room where he was arguing with Charles Vallow.

Lori told the interviewer that she was holding Charles’ phone as he and Cox were wrestling around on the floor and that he got up and came after her with the bat while demanding she give back his phone, which he had set on the counter. She told the officer that she had “gone around the kitchen to get away” from Charles and was “turned around” when she heard the gunshot. At that point “she came back around and saw him on the ground.”

you got me thinking and I read Lori's account and it's hers, doesn't mean any of it was the truth and it's a bit confusing and if all three of them had been pushed and independently interrogated the stories might have collapsed. I think there was a long rehearsal during the time when they did not call the cops and she used I didn't know what to do so I.. "took JJ to school" excuse. Too bad they didn't grab her phone and look at it. JMO



a

Also on the body cam footage, the LEO asks AxC why he didn't just shut the door and stay in the bedroom instead of retrieving the gun there and returning to confront CV
WHY did Arizona LE not investigate more thoroughly that claim of self defense?
And why did Idaho LE acquiesce to no autopsy for a healthy 49 year old woman?
So being concerned about how LE is handling the "rights" of the defendant, of Chad and of the kids' concerned family (KW, LW, CR etc) is not IMO conspiracy theorist thinking. Sometimes people, even LE, suck at their jobs, and in this case that may have had devastating consequences that we're all hoping won't be repeated MOO

 

[AZlawyer]

How as a mother do you walk past your child like that? I will never understand it. I really feel for CR JMO

Maybe if CR had “gone dark” she felt like it wasn’t her child?

I dont know; I'm not a lawyer . I wish one of ours would chime in @AZlawyer @Mormon Attorney But my main takeaway is that not only Lori but also whomever is hiding away the kids ( we dearly hope) would be guilty of felony kidnapping. Moo

I think, without any evidence that the children were in her care after the custody order, it’s easier to use charges like abandonment/neglect or conspiracy to interfere with custody.

Usual apologies about not being able to keep up with this thread so maybe this was discussed.

Shortly before the last thread was closed yesterday, Sticksandspades posted the statute for Abandonment or Nonsupport.

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #25

Snipped section 2 out for focus, BBM:
(2) Willfully omits, without lawful excuse, to furnish necessary food, clothing, shelter, or medical attendance for his or her child or children, or ward or wards; provided however, that the practice of a parent or guardian who chooses for his child treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to be a violation of the duty of care to such child;

I'm not a lawyer but I interpret this to mean LVD's defense could be that she prayed for the children so she didn't violate the law. I realllly hope I am wrong about this and one of the attorneys, or someone who plays an attorney on WS, can correct me.

If not this, what legs does the defense have to stand on?

I would think they could use it as a defense for not seeking/providing medical services like prescriptions or therapies (the medical attendance wording of the statute), but not for the food, clothing, shelter part of the statute. It is worded strangely, but I dont think any judge would interpret or uphold it to mean differently. Moo.

I agree ^

 

[KABangtson]

Why is LVD so smug/arrogant? Does she know something about the kids whereabouts that she is holding to ensure her vindication? Curious to everyone's thoughts/theories.

 

[Angleterre]

Thank you for this comment.

We are all protected by the constitution - criminals included. Bail does not equal a pleasure cruise for her. She's got restrictions, and like her attorney said...she's being hounded. That isn't going to stop.

The money being paid to the bondsman does not get refunded. 100K is a huge amount of money, even with life insurance funds. They still have everyday bills, plus a lot of expensive attorneys. This isn't just going away and I suspect it is only going to get a lot worse for them BOTH.

Additionally, I'd like to remind everybody that the same judge who reduced the bail today also wrote the warrant for five million. He knows the law, he has to follow it, and he wants to make sure his decisions are not later overturned. THAT would be a "win" for her defense team.

I concur wholeheartedly with this... you are right... we don’t want the Judge to do anything that may put the case at risk and allow LVD a ‘win’ for her team on appeal! We are all here for the children and anything that may further risk the finding of them would not be a good thing.

 

[idaidaidaho]

I feel your analysis of the two is what many of us keep thinking about ( both inside LDS and outside LDS). But you have stated the dynamics behind Lori and Chad so well. Sometimes we get bogged down on the site here sliding down the slippery slope or falling into yet another rabbit hole of discussing religion. (those phrases always come up!!!!) But it just seems paramount to this whole case.

I would add a couple of background pieces and request your additional thoughts. I believe your solid differentiation of "what kind of Mormon" Lori might be as compared to Chad does have a lot to do with how she moves forward.

Lori did not grow up in the UT/AZ/ID clouds, and I have always thought that makes a big difference. Mormons in other parts of the country seem to live much quieter and private lives. Having to travel miles to get to a ward, having n0 other Mormons in their neighborhoods etc. is a whole different life style. The three I knew best (MA, NJ, and OH) all ended up moving to UT or AZ in their later years.

Lori's high school friend said her family always seemed private to her. They were in Rialto, CA. We all seem to know she ended up in a first marriage right out of HS, but we don't know his name or anything. It does appear that shortly after this episode in Lori's life, the family moved back to TX (where her father was originally from). I personally have surmised that this could have been WHY they moved back. jmo

How do LDS parents treat, instruct their children who go astray??? Are they different when not in a heavily LDS area? It does appear that even with transgressions---FAMILY still always wins out.
What does a child, say, who has had transgressions...feel they have to do to get back in good standing.

How wayward children are treated really varies from family to family. The church officially teaches love and not shunning, but sometimes shunning happens anyway. Here are a few scenarios I've seen with my own eyes:

• Parents are horrified by child's "sin" or choice to leave the church. There can be demands placed (ie: in my house you follow my rules) and things can escalate to the child being asked to leave or move out as to not "influence" the other chidlren in the home. Sadly this happens more frequently than it should with LGTBQ youth.
  
• Parents are understanding and loving but are overzealous with their rescue efforts. Making everything about prayer/fasting/repentance/temple attendance can push the 'wayward' person away even further. Esepcially when fellowshipping/acceptance efforts feel like they are missionary efforts in disguise.
  
• Parents can accept the child and make room in their family dynamics for someone different. Sometimes this still results in parents weeping in private or sharing "I'm so sad by my wayward child, but I'll just keep hoping/praying" in church or with other members. Sometimes the parent becomes a little more open minded and accepting and the relationship is okay moving forward.

There are varieties on all of those scenarios. Sometimes things are helped by bishop involvement, sometimes they are made worse. It would be really interesting to know more about Lori's family and how they might have reacted to her going off the beaten path... while also learning how things were for them in CA. It is often very different outside of the UT/ID/AZ corridor so it's very difficult to even guess what her experience might have been.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Why is LVD so smug/arrogant? Does she know something about the kids whereabouts that she is holding to ensure her vindication? Curious to everyone's thoughts/theories.

Personally, I think she's freaking out that she got caught and is trying to look tough. Also, on the video of the hearing yesterday, Chad looked like he was about to hyperventilate. jmo

 

[utahobserver]

Personally, I think she's freaking out that she got caught and is trying to look tough. Also, on the video of the hearing yesterday, Chad looked like he was about to hyperventilate. jmo

I know! Watching the courtroom video before the proceedings started, his breathing is so rapid. Definite well deserved anxiety.

 

[Nurse Gen]

It's easy to lie to little kids. "Dad just left for another business trip. He'll be back soon. Let's have a cool pool party!"

"Now, Tylee is off to college, Uncle Alex is taking her there. Give your sister a big hug goodbye and ... oh wow, JJ, look at that cute squirrel!"

<moo>

I agree but what could they have told Tylee?

 

[BigAl16]

Why is LVD so smug/arrogant? Does she know something about the kids whereabouts that she is holding to ensure her vindication? Curious to everyone's thoughts/theories.

I keep wondering that myself. Someone in a post yesterday suggested that they react that way at inappropriate times, when nervous, etc. Obviously it isn't helping her any, but my assumption is that whatever she's showing the outside world in looks and in word has as much chance of being fake as real.

MOO

 

[Hrh_LadyJ]

The SSA should investigate this immediately - they need to make her produce ALL Receipts, any Checks written on behalf of the children for food, clothing, medical, school, etc.

And I bet that Lori canNOT produce any receipts, etc., which would prove LV spent the $$$ and the children are no longer alive.

All JMO and MOO

Just my experience with SSI/DI, they will cut you off first, ask questions later... It can be anything from sending a letter to your known last address and having it returned, to ATM withdrawl's from a State not listed as your residence. Not reporting change of address is a big deal, also not reporting any extra income... even things as small as a lottery ticket...

I think Tylee was collecting on her father JRs SSI death benefits, which she would be entitled to until she reached legal adulthood (longer if she was disabled in some way). CR also was probably receiving them from JR, until he turned 18.

JJ was likely getting SSDI, and nothing yet from CV's death benefits, as his case was still in Probate. So if she didn't report the move to ID, he may have been about to be cut from those. Another reason Lori would have seen them as a burden IMO.

Anyway, SSI/DI def. has an open case and if she's found guilty on that, she will need to reimburse them all that cash as well.
MOO.

 

[BigAl16]

I agree but what could they have told Tylee?

I'm not sure, but whatever it is, I'm guessing it wasn't the truth.

MOO

 

[renarde]

I agree but what could they have told Tylee?

Not sure... but she definitely had to go first, for some reason.

Why didn't they both vanish at the same time?

<moo>

 

[Nurse Gen]

Maybe if CR had “gone dark” she felt like it wasn’t her child?



I think, without any evidence that the children were in her care after the custody order, it’s easier to use charges like abandonment/neglect or conspiracy to interfere with custody.





I agree ^

@AZlawyer I would love to know your thoughts on why those charges have not yet been filed