Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #33

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It has been noted that JJ turns 8 tomorrow. It has also been stated that 8 is the age of accountability (or something like that). Is there a strong emphasis on the eighth birthday in the LDS church? Or is it more of a subtle change without a lot of emphasis?
 
SleuthD-o-doubleg said:
Lori Vallow received threats and is protecting her children, according to mom, sister

"Kay (Woodcock) was threatening her. And her brothers. They're very upset about Charles's death. There was (sic) a lot of threats made to Lori," said Shiflet.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, Lori likes to to create drama. The Woodcocks just wanted to keep being part of JJ's life. They have zero standing for custody, as biological Grandparents of an adopted child. Once a child is legally adopted, that severs the possibility of the Grandparents suing for custody.

No one was suing for custody of Tylee.

Lori, just "being Lori".
 
Re: CVs financial situation. I find it odd that he had employees of some type to pay, but only had $35000 liquid assets. It doesn't seem like much for a business with people to pay. And Kay talking about Lori hanging around for $9000? Rich people don't hang around or even know when $9000 is going to show up in their back account, that would be a meaningless amount to them. I like to think people live within their means, but I've known plenty who don't. I think they were living by the skin of their teeth and keeping up appearances, and Lori was bleeding poor Charles for every penny. He may have been making good money, but if he was, I think she was spending it all. Maybe there's stuff tied up in probate that was for retirement, but the life insurance was seemingly the plan for JJ.
 
KonaHonu said:
It has been noted that JJ turns 8 tomorrow. It has also been stated that 8 is the age of accountability (or something like that). Is there a strong emphasis on the eighth birthday in the LDS church? Or is it more of a subtle change without a lot of emphasis?
Click to expand...
8 is a big birthday--it's when a kid can be baptized into the Mormon church. It's called the age of accountability because it's thought they are old enough to choose to follow Christ, get baptized, and take responsibility for their choices thereafter. ETA before this they are called a "child of record"--which means they're on the Sunday School attendance rolls and listed as part of your family, but not official members of the church.

I never lived in the Morridor, but in my experience you'd have a normal birthday party, and on a separate (but close) date, have a baptism and invite family and friends for the baptism and typically a luncheon afterwards. Your family often gets to participate in the baptism--performing musical numbers, saying special things about you, giving prayers, giving short messages about what a special day and why, etc.
 
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spandangly said:
Re: CVs financial situation. I find it odd that he had employees of some type to pay, but only had $35000 liquid assets. It doesn't seem like much for a business with people to pay. And Kay talking about Lori hanging around for $9000? Rich people don't hang around or even know when $9000 is going to show up in their back account, that would be a meaningless amount to them. I like to think people live within their means, but I've known plenty who don't. I think they were living by the skin of their teeth and keeping up appearances, and Lori was bleeding poor Charles for every penny. He may have been making good money, but if he was, I think she was spending it all. Maybe there's stuff tied up in probate that was for retirement, but the life insurance was seemingly the plan for JJ.
Click to expand...
It's certainly possible they were spending every penny they (no, HE) made as fast as it came in. So the question would be "On what?" Rent would have been a big expense given the fancy houses they lived in. But beyond that and traveling to Hawaii, they did not seem to have a lot of stuff. Lori does not give the appearance of having expensive tastes. She was happy with a $35 wedding ring! They probably gave a lot to the church as they are supposed to. They had a lot of nice vehicles too.

I did find a Vallow Family Limited Partnership that I have tied to Lori and Charles. It formed a wealth advisory LLC in 2011 with several other members. That LLC only lasted 2 months but in that time it employed some people and had as members others who are now associated with a hearing aid company including the founder. I'd love to see those documents! As a partnership they would have had to file with a secretary of state somewhere. But I've beed unable to find it in Texas, Arizona, or Louisiana.

And here's a wild twist - the phone number associated with the wealth advisory traces back to Alex Cox! I mean, we already knew CV paid for a lot of phones but I did not see that one coming.
 
spandangly said:
8 is a big birthday--it's when a kid can be baptized into the Mormon church. It's called the age of accountability because it's thought they are old enough to choose to follow Christ, get baptized, and take responsibility for their choices thereafter. ETA before this they are called a "child of record"--which means they're on the Sunday School attendance rolls and listed as part of your family, but not official members of the church.

I never lived in the Morridor, but in my experience you'd have a normal birthday party, and on a separate (but close) date, have a baptism and invite family and friends for the baptism and typically a luncheon afterwards. Your family often gets to participate in the baptism--performing musical numbers, saying special things about you, giving prayers, giving short messages about what a special day and why, etc.
Click to expand...
Is it possible JJ was purposefully killed before he reached the "age of accountability"? I think yes, someone with a sick mind could use that as part of their justification. It would basically mean a ticket straight to "the highest heaven" because they're considered unaccountable for any sins.
 
KonaHonu said:
It's certainly possible they were spending every penny they (no, HE) made as fast as it came in. So the question would be "On what?" Rent would have been a big expense given the fancy houses they lived in. But beyond that and traveling to Hawaii, they did not seem to have a lot of stuff. Lori does not give the appearance of having expensive tastes. She was happy with a $35 wedding ring! They probably gave a lot to the church as they are supposed to. They had a lot of nice vehicles too.

I did find a Vallow Family Limited Partnership that I have tied to Lori and Charles. It formed a wealth advisory LLC in 2011 with several other members. That LLC only lasted 2 months but in that time it employed some people and had as members others who are now associated with a hearing aid company including the founder. I'd love to see those documents! As a partnership they would have had to file with a secretary of state somewhere. But I've beed unable to find it in Texas, Arizona, or Louisiana.

And here's a wild twist - the phone number associated with the wealth advisory traces back to Alex Cox! I mean, we already knew CV paid for a lot of phones but I did not see that one coming.
Click to expand...
I was also wondering what it might have been spent on. I think Lori doesn't have expensive tastes.....now. She was obviously regularly getting her hair done, and the women in the family seem to get lash extensions--those ain't cheap! I remember when someone posted their CC bill there was a spa day. And she flew to Hawaii how many times in 2019? I'm not sure what else since they didn't seem to have furniture? It's all very bizarre.

MOO

ETA: they would have to be full tithe payers to get a temple recommend; although we don't know that they had them, I think Charles would have been a full tithe payer. So that would be 10% of their income.
 
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SleuthD-o-doubleg said:
Hold up...so G Bonilla knew CV and JM and MG? How did I miss this? Why is this connection never mentioned?

Is it possible everyone is involved in this group but CV (imo he seemed genuinely shocked by these beliefs)? Is it possible everyone was hiding all of these things from CV? Is it possible all these connections aren’t coincidental?
Click to expand...
And maybe GB lived in Rexburg, Idaho. Coincidence. Maybe.

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #31
 
spandangly said:
I was also wondering what it might have been spent on. I think Lori doesn't have expensive tastes.....now. She was obviously regularly getting her hair done, and the women in the family seem to get last extensions--those ain't cheap! I remember when someone posted their CC bill there was a spa day. And she flew to Hawaii how many times in 2019? I'm not sure what else since they didn't seem to have furniture? It's all very bizarre.

MOO
Click to expand...
Hair and hair products , makeup & skincare (and NOT "drugstore brands" for sure) can cost hundreds per month. She looked to have new cute workout/casual clothes in Hawaii, and was well dressed IIRC in the police videos. She has a nice figure and probably likes to dress to show it off. Just because she doesn't have a lot at any given time doesn't mean she doesn't buy a lot--consignment//clothing resale is a big industry here. Purses, shoes (and nothing but the best brands befitting a goddess remember). Spa days, injections, peels etc. on a regular basis. Electronics/phones. Moo.
Edit: ooh I left out a big one I was thinking about-- food. It costs a lot to eat in a healthful yet convenient way.
 
indicolite22 said:
MG was called by both Chad and Lori on November 26 (day of the welfare check). She got her narrative in order by December 6, when she went to police and told them about the calls.

She's not being accused of anything so far. IMO she did not participate in the deaths and disappearances, otherwise she would not have turned to LE unprompted. It's a big question if she had knowledge that she could have used to prevent certain things from happening. The police knew about Lori's threats to Charles, yet that did not save him.
Click to expand...
On November 26 Gilbert police speak with MG and she tells them she hasn't seen JJ in months. She is on record from the moment she is first contacted by police on the first day they try to contact her that she has not seen JJ.

MG calls Rexburg PD on December 6 for some reason, but she is not evading LE until December 6.

From Gardeners timeline:
26 Nov 2019, about 9:30 pm - Rexburg PD have not heard from MG so they call Gilbert PD. LE in Arizona go to MG’s home but she is not there. GPD reaches MG by phone; She tells them JJ has not been there for several months. (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News)
 
It is officially Monday here on the East Coast. Happy Birthday JJ!

The eyes in this picture get me every time.

LARRY-AND-KAY-VALLOW-WOODCOCK-620x349.jpg
 
GoneGoldfishin' said:
Hair and hair products , makeup & skincare (and NOT "drugstore brands" for sure) can cost hundreds per month. She looked to have new cute workout/casual clothes in Hawaii, and was well dressed IIRC in the police videos. She has a nice figure and probably likes to dress to show it off. Just because she doesn't have a lot at any given time doesn't mean she doesn't buy a lot--consignment//clothing resale is a big industry here. Purses, shoes (and nothing but the best brands befitting a goddess remember). Spa days, injections, peels etc. on a regular basis. Electronics/phones. Moo.
Edit: ooh I left out a big one I was thinking about-- food. It costs a lot to eat in a healthful yet convenient way.
Click to expand...
Big ticket items:

Constant moving/running away
  • rentals (first, last and security deposit) breaking leases
  • flights/hotels/food
Health Insurance, if CV was self employed they would need health insurance and that could run $2k/month for the 4 of them.

Cars - 3 new (late model) cars - if leased that could be pricy, insurance for Tylee would be really expensive.

LDS 10% of Gross

Failed Hawaii businesses

Cell service for how many devices - for 4 people
Medication for JJ
Service dog etc.

Business travel expenses.

It all adds up - I wouldn't be surprised if they were just living commission check to commission check.
 
KonaHonu said:
It's certainly possible they were spending every penny they (no, HE) made as fast as it came in. So the question would be "On what?" Rent would have been a big expense given the fancy houses they lived in. But beyond that and traveling to Hawaii, they did not seem to have a lot of stuff. Lori does not give the appearance of having expensive tastes. She was happy with a $35 wedding ring! They probably gave a lot to the church as they are supposed to. They had a lot of nice vehicles too.

I did find a Vallow Family Limited Partnership that I have tied to Lori and Charles. It formed a wealth advisory LLC in 2011 with several other members. That LLC only lasted 2 months but in that time it employed some people and had as members others who are now associated with a hearing aid company including the founder. I'd love to see those documents! As a partnership they would have had to file with a secretary of state somewhere. But I've beed unable to find it in Texas, Arizona, or Louisiana.

And here's a wild twist - the phone number associated with the wealth advisory traces back to Alex Cox! I mean, we already knew CV paid for a lot of phones but I did not see that one coming.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't assume all their income was from CV. When Lori filed for bankruptcy after splitting up from Joe Ryan, she reported to the family court that she had monthly income and expenses from hair styling. She may have continued doing some of that work (and at least one of the email addresses to which Chad sent Lori an email supports the idea that she might have still been working as a stylist - "lori4style...").

There are some potential oddities in Hawaii too. Besides the juice company registered in their names there never filing reports (it's delinquent for all three years they were there - 2016, 2017 and 2018, which may indicate income was not being reported), there are some strange relationships (shared PO Box numbers, phone numbers) with at least one other business (fitness/yoga) in the area. And, I remember April Raymond saying in the first Dateline episode that one of the things she and Lori shared was that they were both fitness instructors. So, I wonder if that may have been another source of income while in Hawaii. If so, it may have been unreported as well.

All those mirrors on the wall of the living room in that house in which CV was shot... those look exactly like the mirrors on walls of fitness studios.
 
spandangly said:
Is it possible JJ was purposefully killed before he reached the "age of accountability"? I think yes, someone with a sick mind could use that as part of their justification. It would basically mean a ticket straight to "the highest heaven" because they're considered unaccountable for any sins.
Click to expand...


I may be handicapped in my beliefs in this case by a complete lack of understanding or acceptance that anyone could kill an innocent child in cold blood for any reason. I understand that some people do that. But it is rarely their first act of evil. Often they start with torturing animals or other sick acts. I just don't see Lori or Chad being that sick.
 
Adam Herbets on Twitter

Tonight on @fox13: A tribute to JJ Vallow on his 8th birthday

He and his sister have been missing now for 8 months

Their mother is in jail, declining to state where her kids are

Instead of focusing on the case against her, loved ones are sharing their birthday messages to JJ
 
Diddian said:
I wouldn't assume all their income was from CV. When Lori filed for bankruptcy after splitting up from Joe Ryan, she reported to the family court that she had monthly income and expenses from hair styling. She may have continued doing some of that work (and at least one of the email addresses to which Chad sent Lori an email supports the idea that she might have still been working as a stylist - "lori4style...").
Click to expand...
I have a friend who is a hair stylist. She has a safe at home stuffed full of thousands of dollars in cash. I have no idea what income she reports. But she has a largely cash business so it is believable that Lori could have had a sizeable tax-free income if she had a lot of clients.

Diddian said:
There are some potential oddities in Hawaii too. Besides the juice company registered in their names there never filing reports (it's delinquent for all three years they were there - 2016, 2017 and 2018, which may indicate income was not being reported), there are some strange relationships (shared PO Box numbers, phone numbers) with at least one other business (fitness/yoga) in the area. And, I remember April Raymond saying in the first Dateline episode that one of the things she and Lori shared was that they were both fitness instructors. So, I wonder if that may have been another source of income while in Hawaii. If so, it may have been unreported as well.
Click to expand...
The annual report you have to file for a business in Hawaii is nothing more than "We're still breathing and willing to pay the $15 (roughly) fee." There is no disclosure of revenue or anything like that. There are separate filings for sales taxes and employees but those are from separate departments. They don't dissolve your business for not filing taxes or unemployment taxes. I've operated a couple of businesses in Hawaii and can tell you from experience that it takes them about 3 years to even contact you if you don't file your tax/unemployment forms (in my case because I owed no taxes and had no employees because I was winding down).

The only reason not to pay the annual report fee is that you are really cheap or the business has closed and you want the state to dissolve it administratively. Or she could have just been sloppy at administering the business.
 
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