Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #38

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Tortoise said:
I think it's possible JJ was killed in the townhouse but I think Tylee would have been killed elsewhere. Mainly for the following reasons -

1. they took a trip out to Yellowstone, and Alex doesn't strike me as a hiker. I'm not suggesting she was killed in Yellowstone Park but somewhere remote on a convoluted journey home, and that was the purpose of the trip. I think it's possible Tylee was tricked into leaving the vehicle (maybe he said there were engine problems or needed to stop to see something like wildlife) JJ was drugged and sleeping at the time, carried in to bed when they got back, and given a story about Tylee going to stay at college and he would see her soon. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was shot. If her body was dismembered I think it would be to conceal her in something, and for ease of carrying her, and Lori may have driven home with JJ and left Alex somewhere with Tylee's body, going back to get him the following day.
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Respectfully snipped for focus.

So, here's the problem with doing anything in Yellowstone that involves blood: carrion creatures, including wolves. They would have attracted a lot of attention, either from looky-loos or wolf fans or wildlife cams or coyotes. And there's no telling where the cams are located.
That's not to mention carrion birds.

BUT....
All this time, I've been surprised that, per the photos, they seem to have gone into Yellowstone from Jackson Hole. The long way. I've gone through Rexburg to get to Yellowstone, and I went via West Yellowstone. It seems the most logical route to me. It's possible they made a loop trip and came back that way.

Here's the thing about that area of the park and that route. I was in a pretty pull-over rest area in woods by the river for 2 hours, by myself, no other tourists. Barely a car driving by on the road. IIRC the Park Ranger drove by at one point, but evidently to make sure I wasn't a hooligan or pitching a tent.
This rest area has a rest room.
For sure there would have been wildlife in this area, but a person freaked out by grizzlies and wolves wouldn't have felt they were an issue here.
SouthWest of West Yellowstone there are also long stretches of remote National Forest, but really, LV and CD strike me as being squeamish except maybe when it comes to murder.
This scenario would also require that they disable JJ so he can't see anything and blurt it out later.
 
indicolite22 said:
BBM. According to Julie Rowe his visions about Tammy dying started much earlier. He was discussing them with Julie and she claims she had the same visions even before that. Chad might have been grooming Julie (and maybe other women) before Lori.
Click to expand...

You might be right about Chad grooming Julie. She has said other stuff that made me wonder this, too.

It’s too bad she’s so incoherent, though. It’s nearly impossible to filter out what might be true when she talks.
 
Tortoise said:
I believe having the bodies buried in Chad's back yard (which leads to a very high chance of a murder conviction if they are discovered and therefore is extremely high risk) shows a very strong need to keep control over the bodies. I think that explains why Tylee wasn't just left in the forest somewhere, because they would never know if someone would happen to find her remains in the future. I do expect that Chad thought he could construct something like a concrete base for a building or mobile home over the top of the children's remains one day, once he was comfortable the attention had moved away from him.

MOO
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Were both children found in the area near the fire pit? What about the digging near the tree on the north edge of the property? He could not have put a home there to cover a grave.
 
RickshawFan said:
Interesting and odd.
I had assumed between living in St George's and moving to Rexburg—both with dominant populations of LDS-ers—her family (though maybe not the spouses) were LDS. Melani? Summer? Ian?
But that also begs a question that may have been discussed already. When did LV become LDS and why? Was the "afterlife" theme in LDS from the very beginning a deliberate and convenient cover for serial murder and not from religious conviction?
I am not intending to be offensive...
Click to expand...

Lori's family is Mormon for many generations... I saw evidence that really goes back to those really early Mormons (ca 1830s).

She never seemed to marry one though....... which has always been extremely odd to me. I have had some lds friends, say "practically disgraceful"...so there is probably some other story there.

Kay Vallow did indicate that Charles very willingly converted. AND that he was very gung ho into the beliefs, practices. The clean living, the extraordinary emphasis on "family", the strong fellowship.... are all elements that attract some converts to the faith. I have always guessed that Charles would do pretty much anything to support Lori, and he himself cherished his conversion.

This is why so many of us are angry at the Bishop of their Stake in Arizona.... Charles confided in him. Charles needed his help sooo badly. And he straddled the fence with his support.
I often lump him in there with Chandler and Gilbert LE-- could have changed a lot of the upcoming horrors.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
Tortoise,
There is an aerial photo "out there" that shows clearly how the green grass (more nitrogen probably) growing around the main dig area. Do you have that one, or see it. I think it was a local Rexburg drone seen on SM so cannot post. But since you have such a handle on all these aerials, is there a way you can get it into the media thread..since its' media.
Click to expand...
unfortunately I don't, I've only seen what was posted here which I've posted in the media thread.
 
jjenny said:
His weight loss was likely due to the fact that Lori put him a juice diet. And not anything heavy weighting on his mind. Lori's previous husbands (#3 and #4) were all fit men. I don't think she liked chubby guys.
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Agreed. She also changed his hair! Look at his widely circulated photo (blue background, prob drivers license) compared to when they were caught waltzing around in Hawaii. She was re-making him into her next victim, probably! MOO
 
RickshawFan said:
They killed Tylee somewhere else, but fear of grizzlies and wolves freaked them out?
Great idea on the poisoning in LV's apartment. I wonder if LE found antifreeze.
Click to expand...

For those that continue to mention antifreeze... it's an easy one to diagnose on autopsy as there are crystals in MANY tissues. That would not have been missed once *under the microscope* by law enforcement.

MOO
 
Tortoise said:
I think it's possible JJ was killed in the townhouse but I think Tylee would have been killed elsewhere. Mainly for the following reasons -

1. they took a trip out to Yellowstone, and Alex doesn't strike me as a hiker. I'm not suggesting she was killed in Yellowstone Park but somewhere remote on a convoluted journey home, and that was the purpose of the trip. I think it's possible Tylee was tricked into leaving the vehicle (maybe he said there were engine problems or needed to stop to see something like wildlife) JJ was drugged and sleeping at the time, carried in to bed when they got back, and given a story about Tylee going to stay at college and he would see her soon. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was shot. If her body was dismembered I think it would be to conceal her in something, and for ease of carrying her, and Lori may have driven home with JJ and left Alex somewhere with Tylee's body, going back to get him the following day.
Click to expand...

Respectfully snipped for focus.

So, here's the problem with doing anything in Yellowstone that involves blood: carrion creatures, including wolves. They would have attracted a lot of attention, either from looky-loos or wolf fans or wildlife cams or coyotes. And there's no telling where the cams are located.
That's not to mention carrion birds.

BUT....
All this time, I've been surprised that, per the photos, the LV gang seem to have gone into Yellowstone from Jackson Hole. The long way. I've gone through Rexburg to get to Yellowstone, and I went via West Yellowstone. It seems the most logical route to me. It's possible they made a loop trip and came back that way.

Here's the thing about that area of the park and that route. I was in a pretty pull-over rest area in woods by the river for 2 hours, by myself, no other tourists. Barely a car driving by on the road. IIRC the Park Ranger drove by at one point, but evidently to make sure I wasn't a hooligan or pitching a tent.
This rest area has a rest room.
For sure there would have been wildlife in this area, but a person freaked out by grizzlies and wolves wouldn't have felt they were an issue here.
There would have been more traffic in this area in September (I was there in October), but not busy with school kids.
An NPS video of this area is here. The Ranger is even having a bite in this very spot (7 miles west of Madison Campground): Inside Yellowstone - Along the Madison River
SouthWest of West Yellowstone en route back to Rexburg there are also long stretches of remote National Forest, but really, LV and CD strike me as being squeamish except maybe when it comes to murder.
This scenario would also require that they disable JJ so he can't see anything and blurt it out later.
 
There’s just so many things that we don’t know. I mean is it possible that Tammy could have gone to a church retreat for a night or two before her visit to her parents?

I think it’s likely we are missing something that would make it possible to bury the children earlier than Tammy’s visit to her parents. I can’t imagine holding the bodies of the children for an extended amount of time.

I know it happens, and if it did, to me that would mean we are looking at an accomplice that held them and now is the one talking to LE. But who?
MOO
 
Tortoise said:
RSBM (respectfully snipped by me)

I think it's possible JJ was killed in the townhouse but I think Tylee would have been killed elsewhere. Mainly for the following reasons -

1. they took a trip out to Yellowstone, and Alex doesn't strike me as a hiker. I'm not suggesting she was killed in Yellowstone Park but somewhere remote on a convoluted journey home, and that was the purpose of the trip. I think it's possible Tylee was tricked into leaving the vehicle (maybe he said there were engine problems or needed to stop to see something like wildlife) JJ was drugged and sleeping at the time, carried in to bed when they got back, and given a story about Tylee going to stay at college and he would see her soon. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was shot. If her body was dismembered I think it would be to conceal her in something, and for ease of carrying her, and Lori may have driven home with JJ and left Alex somewhere with Tylee's body, going back to get him the following day.

2. I think murdering Tylee in the house would have been a noise risk with neighbors and JJ, especially if Tylee saw it coming and struggled or JJ wandered in and discovered either the murder taking place or her dead body in the hours afterwards. I think Lori was especially vigilant of JJ when Charles was shot and that's why she waited until JJ was put in the car and had Tylee lined up to go and stop him returning to the house. I also think it risked leaving evidence there of a struggle or disturbance, like broken items.

3. I think Tylee was possibly dismembered and there wouldn't be much purpose to killing in one place and moving to another place to do that. Too much chance of getting caught with a whole body on the journey and contaminating the house and vehicle. It makes more sense to me that if one of the bodies was cut up (as I think is probable) it would be Tylee's because moving her and concealing her would be more difficult than JJ given his size and weight.

4. I think a crime scene at the house would have resulted in charges of murder and not desertion. I don't necessarily think the same would apply if JJ was killed there because firstly Tylee was already eliminated as a witness, and secondly he is not likely to have been able to put up much of a struggle against adults, especially if he was drugged, and I expect they used a means which would not cause bleeding and he could be quickly moved, leaving few traces that couldn't be cleaned up.

JMO
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I agree Tylee was not killed in Yellowstone, I've always felt it was on their way home in a remote area which would be easy enough. JJ could have easily been asleep from a long day or with the help of a seditive. I would not be surprised if they told Tylee they would go to Yellowstone then onto BYU to enroll her in school. Imo Tylee does not look to happy judging by the picture. I think she was dismembered and bagged where they killed her. I say that because I dont think they would have had a chance to bury her in Chad's yard yet. They could easily have had tools with them to do this. If they did not do it there they could have done it in their garage but I would think there would be blood evidence left behind. Did Alex have his unit there yet, this is right around the time he would have had his lease start but dont know the exact date. I have a strong feeling that they brought Tylee back home and put her in a freezer till they had chance to dispose of her. This part was maybe not planned but a quick trip to a store a freezer could be bought. Now the day before on the 7th Tammy was at an event and Chad did not go with her. So we dont know if Chad was with Lori and/or Alex on the 7th putting a plan together. I dont think Chad killed Tylee but I believe he conspired with them and helped after the fact. The one thing that bothers me about my theory is why dismember her why not just bury her where they killed her. Why did they wait to bury her in Chad's yard. Did something happen that there original plan went off track.
 
indicolite22 said:
Were both children found in the area near the fire pit? What about the digging near the tree on the north edge of the property? He could not have put a home there to cover a grave.
Click to expand...
That is very true. Perhaps he thought that no one would ever excavate next to the boundary and the tree behind the pond there?

I have a hunch, just by looking at the two different excavations, that they were buried by two different people. The one next to the fire pit just looks very disorganized to me, with the orange blanket or whatever it was (looks like a tent or a waterproof cover to me) possibly buried with the remains, not very deep at all, done in a rush by someone not used to digging and/or burying a body. The one by the pond looked like an actual grave. Therefore my hunch is that Alex might have buried the 'bundle' of remains by the fire pit and Chad might have dug the other hole.

MOO
 
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fuzzybutter said:
It probably happened at the townhouse and I am guessing there were drugs involved. The drugs were used to make it easier on the killers not necessarily the kids. And then they went into Rubbermaid tubs in the storage unit? I think/hope the “particularly egregious” stuff happened post mortem.
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IMO it would need to be as quiet and clean as possible.

We lived in a townhouse for a year while building our home in the country. The walls are like paper and we were constantly telling the kids to quiet down.

When we got moved into our new home, the kids turned the music loud, ran outside and screamed “we can be loud and nobody cares!”
 
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