Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #39

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jodi Arias is just one example of BPD in high profile criminal cases.

I think Lori’s serial killing is related to BPD’s overwhelming fear of rejection or abandonment. Once she began to idealize Chad, she absolutely invested her life’s purpose in being accepted by him. In order for that to happen, spouses Charles and Tammy needed to be out of the way. She also decided that Tylee and JJ didn’t fit in with a future with Chad. He called them zombies. Not only did that make it easier for her to “split” from them, it showed her that they would not be accepted by Chad if she was to have a relationship with him. Besides, weren’t they dead already?

Lack of empathy is another hallmark of BPD. I have my own list of these examples, but perhaps someone else wants to offer their take?

Theories that try to explain her actions with more typical motivations of money and lust fall short for me. Yes, these were definitely part of it, just not a satisfactory explanation for everything we see. At least from Lori’s perspective.

I am still puzzled by Chad’s motivations. While I see a lot of pathology, I haven’t formed a unifying theory for all of it yet.

ETA MOO

I feel for Larry and Kay and those who will witness in court and who are going to have to travel again and again and again.. a la the Arias case. Both sides will have psych evals on both I would think... hmmm, who were the players in the Arias case for example to juxatapose here? And delay, delay, and delay.

A la Jodi case which had LDS etc. religious undertones... Richard Samuels testified that Arias suffered from acute stress disorder, dissociative amnesia etc. which developed into post-traumatic stress disorder. Samuels said he came to this conclusion after reviewing evidence in the case, examining Arias, and administering a test to diagnose PTSD. Psychologist Janeen DeMarte debunked Richard Samuels tests. And then we had.... domestic abuse specialist Alyce LaViolette who presented a talk entitled “Was Snow White a Battered Woman?”


This is gonna be lots of experts and delays... MOO
 
It was Chad who suggested to Lori that both her husband and her two children were zombies and therefore had to go.

Right, and Chad came up with the idiotic light/dark point scale, too.

But I’m not sure who came up with the “therefore they had to go” portion. I assume that was all Lori, who roped in Alex.

I think Chad got an idea of who Lori liked/disliked, then made up the dumb scale stuff to flatter her into thinking god approved of her opinions...and then Lori took it from there.

If that’s true, Lori brought murder into the equation. And Chad unwittingly supplied the justification for the murder.

who knows though...
 
When Nate was in the helicopter on day 1 I recall him saying something to the effect of “we’ll only be here for a short time so we can let them do their job”. He might have been asked to keep his fly over brief.
IIRC the day 1 NFZ was for 500 feet and above, as in helicopters not drones.
 
I'm not sure if this helps or not

Nate Eaton - Reporter
10 June at 04:07 ·
Thank you to everyone who is sending tips, links and kind words. We have some information we have chosen not to report just yet. Many people close to the case have not been informed of new developments and investigators are working to meet with them. I apologize for being vague but promise EastIdahoNews.com will give you the very latest ASAP.

June 10th
Kay Woodcock, the grandmother of Joshua “JJ” Vallow, confirmed to EastIdahoNews.com that authorities have told her one set of the remains belongs to JJ. However, authorities have not released a positive identification to the public.
Chad Daybell appears in court, prosecutor confirms remains found in yard are children | East Idaho News

June 11th -
IDAHO FALLS — Joshua “JJ” Vallow’s grandparents arrived in eastern Idaho Wednesday and visited Chad Daybell’s home – the place where their grandson’s remains were found this week.
Vigil planned for JJ and Tylee as memorials are set up in honor of the children | East Idaho News

I also saw a report saying Kay and Larry were flying to Idaho but I can't find it now. Probably would have been on the 10th?

I still strongly believe that LE had some way of knowing for certain the remains were of Tylee and JJ—perhaps a sworn statement or other forensic evidence (ie telephonic/electronic communications) from a witness who either participated in the demise and/or disposal of the bodies or saw the corpse after the killings but before they were buried.

That plus confirmation of same + the uncovering of the remains = responsibility to notify the families - OR - identification by family = notification to family thereby prompting family to release statements confirming the remains

The bodies were uncovered June 9 and one family member made a post on SM June 9 and then formal statements statements released June 10. LE statement was released June 13 confirming the autopsy results.

So how else could the family know the remains were of the children? Who notified them and based on what proof?

IMO, there has to be some evidentiary proof that the bodies were those of Tylee and JJ—again, either by sworn statement, an admission or identification otherwise, how would the family have known before the autopsy?

A social media post by a family member confirming JJ’s death popped up late in the evening of the the post was allegedly meant for a closed group that was either infiltrated by someone for whom the post wasn’t intended for or someone who breached the trust of said family member, by taking taking a screenshot and was posting it elsewhere. OP called that person out and nothing more was said until the Woodcocks released their statement June 10. I know SM posts aren’t allowed here but I saw this with my own eyes and saved screenshots of same—to confirm my sanity as I couldn’t believe my own eyes at the time.

Either way, the question still remains—how did the family received confirmation on the remains before the autopsy was performed?

Im going to continue to speculate that there has GOT to be some kind of evidentiary proof some how, some where, some way that confirms the bodies were those of the children without the need for an autopsy. Is it a confession and locating remains were enough to notify the families?

I think so. And if so, takes me back to my first sentence here: perhaps a sworn statement or other forensic evidence (ie telephonic/electronic communications) from a witness who either participated in the demise and/or disposal of the bodies or saw the corpse after the killings but before they were buried.

Someone either flipped or snitched.

And, is this therefore why the order to seal was amended to include “sealing the probable cause affidavit submitted with the complaint is necessary to prevent harm to person or persons?


***** MOO ****** JMO ****** MOO ******JMO ****** MOO *****

Also, @Tortoise thank you so for the additional information—it is very helpful.

@Lea.B @Countem @BeckyF
 
Last edited:
When Nate was in the helicopter on day 1 I recall him saying something to the effect of “we’ll only be here for a short time so we can let them do their job”. He might have been asked to keep his fly over brief.

IIRC the day 1 NFZ was for 500 feet and above, as in helicopters not drones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BUF
We have all seen Lori being manipulative, getting what she wants no matter the cost, and at least for me I have seen Chad come across as not to bright! So, Lori knew the kids were in her way, she couldn’t climb the next rung on the ladder, they had to go. So Chad comes to the rescue with a plan, a not so smart plan. Sometimes I play with the idea that maybe, just maybe Lori did not know the kids were dead. My opinion is Chad single handedly killed and buried the kids with or w/o knowledge to Lori. Why would you store their things in a storage unit??? Why not drop it off at the goodwill! Be done with it if you knew they were never going to use them again.jmo

well... I keep feeling these is some accomplice up in the Idaho woods... I just cannot accept that Chad ltechnically--could mutilate Tylee... But that someone could/would threaten to spill the beans if he did not take care of the body or bodies....
 
Lori apparently believed them to be dead when they were perfectly alive. According to Melanie G., when she went visit Lori in Rexburg, Lori told her that JJ become a "zombie." Lori also accused Charles of being a "zombie" and of course we all know what happened to Charles. I don't think there is a snowball chance in hell Lori didn't know that kids were killed.
I am sure you are correct!, There are so many “What” moments in this case!!! And like most being a mom, it’s hard to believe she could kill her kids!!Considering Tylee was almost 18 and ready to be on her own,Kay an Larry would have gladly taken JJ. So there were other options. Selfish,controlling,greedy do it my way Lori IMO
 
Alright, let's discuss the forensic work done at the scene and, specifically, the images of what appear to be human remains. Out of respect for members and for convenience, I have uploaded images with annotations on our server. WARNING: don't click the link if you find the topic unsettling. The images are not terribly graphic, but I do know some people are particularly sensitive. Here's the link. PASSWORD IS: visual

In the second to last photo, am I the only one seeing a big stuffed animal head? Like a fox or a bear? At the top of the orange pile right in the middle. It looks like one of those kids sleeping bags or blankets with the pillow attached. The angle of this photo is great. I originally thought from the aerial photos that it was a plastic irrigation dam.
 
In my opinion, there is always room for an "insanity plea" but just not in this case. There are folks who struggle with Schizophrenia, Schizoaffective disorder, psychotic disorders, and even seizure disorders that clearly do not have control over their own behaviors with a rational mind (at specific times when not appropriately medicated). One example is the Mom that drown her 5 children because she truly believed she was "sending them to be with God". But there is a clear difference between that case and this one. That case was one moment in time that all the children died - one big psychotic break. A true mental illness "insanity plea" IMO.
This case has way too much evidence against LVD & CD to prove that.
1) it is not just one person (so to argue they all have to have that psychotic break together at the same moment)
2) there were so many planned murders/deaths/disappearances/multiple weddings/ attempted attacks on others -
that this case that you have to be in control of your thinking in order to PLAN out devious acts.
3) this case ends up in CD's & LVD's "fairytale wedding in Hawaii" - not so for the mom with the drown children who called & turned herself in.

Add to all of this - Lori not one time ever reported her children MISSING! She did not ever want people looking for them and thought that she could erase them from her mind( - why shouldn't everyone else) she would never be caught.
MOO
 
Organophosphate poisoning is another cause of pulmonary embolisms. I imagine if organophosphate poisoning can cause them, there are other drugs/poisons that can too.

I don’t know if organophosphate (OP) would be a substance that would be tested for in autopsy, or if it can even be detected.

Here’s link to OP causing pulmonary embolisms:
Increased Risk of Deep Vein Thrombosis and Pulmonary Thromboembolism in Patients With Organophosphate Intoxication: A Nationwide Prospective Cohort Study

Here’s link to information about organophasphate — it’s something that can be foumd in a number of products.
Organophosphate poisoning: diagnosis and treatment

I don’t doubt that blood clots caused or contributed to his death. But I don’t think the blood clots just formed naturally.

This sentence just made me take a deep breath:
We analyzed the risks of DVT and PTE by using Cox proportional hazards regression models that included the demographic variables of sex, age, and comorbidities (eg, hypertension, diabetes, cerebral vascular disease, heart failure, all cancer types, and lower leg fracture or surgery).
 
Right, and Chad came up with the idiotic light/dark point scale, too.

But I’m not sure who came up with the “therefore they had to go” portion. I assume that was all Lori, who roped in Alex.

I think Chad got an idea of who Lori liked/disliked, then made up the dumb scale stuff to flatter her into thinking god approved of her opinions...and then Lori took it from there.

If that’s true, Lori brought murder into the equation. And Chad unwittingly supplied the justification for the murder.

who knows though...
BBM. It is part of Chad's doctrine. People become zombies when an evil entity pushes their spirit out of their body. This is irreversible. The spirit is in limbo until the body is destroyed (killed) and only then it can progress to the next life (they believed in multiple mortal lives).

ETA: Interestingly, Chad and Lori killed zombies they didn't know en masse through prayer alone.
 
Last edited:
Organophosphate poisoning is another cause of pulmonary embolisms. I imagine if organophosphate poisoning can cause them, there are other drugs/poisons that can too.

I don’t know if organophosphate (OP) would be a substance that would be tested for in autopsy, or if it can even be detected.

Here’s link to OP causing pulmonary embolisms:
Increased Risk of Deep Vein Thrombosis and Pulmonary Thromboembolism in Patients With Organophosphate Intoxication: A Nationwide Prospective Cohort Study

Here’s link to information about organophasphate — it’s something that can be foumd in a number of products.
Organophosphate poisoning: diagnosis and treatment

I don’t doubt that blood clots caused or contributed to his death. But I don’t think the blood clots just formed naturally.

Organophosphates (OPs) are a group of chemicals that are widely used as insecticides in agriculture and household gardens worldwide. Because of the availability of such compounds, the incidence of accidental, occupational, bystander exposure, and suicidal poisoning has gradually increased

I also keep coming back to Alex's employer... transporting hazardous waste. This is why I was so disappointed when his results came back as natural causes, because i felt for certain that the Arizona authorities would have included working with the environmental services company he worked for, when doing the autopsy.

There are documents out there that cross reference his employer did, in fact, deal with these compounds. I am guessing we can post some of that basic information because it does relate to Alex's autopsy, so is not counter-sleuthing... I am trying to find more exactly which chemicals might have been specific to his company's office there in AZ.
Service and Experience by Industry | Heritage®
 
Last edited:
I really doubt that the authorities would have notified K & L that a search was going to take place and wait for their arrival. That’s not how they work.

The remains were most likely identified first as children due to their bones, then dental records and DNA for confirmation of each. They wouldn’t have had them identify remains that have been buried for so long...just way too gruesome for those that loved them.

Once the obvious children’s remains were found, they notified them....then probably confirmed from dental records. After DNA was confirmed it was released to the public.

moo
 
I still strongly believe that LE had some way of knowing for certain the remains were of Tylee and JJ—perhaps a sworn statement or other forensic evidence (ie telephonic/electronic communications) from a witness who either participated in the demise and/or disposal of the bodies or saw the corpse after the killings but before they were buried.

That plus confirmation of same + the uncovering of the remains = responsibility to notify the families - OR - identification by family = notification to family thereby prompting family to release statements confirming the remains

The bodies were uncovered June 9 and one family member made a post on SM June 9 and then formal statements statements released June 10. LE statement was released June 13 confirming the autopsy results.

So how else could the family know the remains were of the children? Who notified them and based on what proof?

IMO, there has to be some evidentiary proof that the bodies were those of Tylee and JJ—again, either by sworn statement, an admission or identification otherwise, how would the family have known before the autopsy?

A social media post by a family member confirming JJ’s death popped up late in the evening of the the post was allegedly meant for a closed group that was either infiltrated by someone for whom the post wasn’t intended for or someone who breached the trust of said family member, by taking taking a screenshot and was posting it elsewhere. OP called that person out and nothing more was said until the Woodcocks released their statement June 10. I know SM posts aren’t allowed here but I saw this with my own eyes and saved screenshots of same—to confirm my sanity as I couldn’t believe my own eyes at the time.

Either way, the question still remains—how did the family received confirmation on the remains before the autopsy was performed?

Im going to continue to speculate that there has GOT to be some kind of evidentiary proof some how, some where, some way that confirms the bodies were those of the children without the need for an autopsy. Is it a confession and locating remains were enough to notify the families?

I think so. And if so, takes me back to my first sentence here: perhaps a sworn statement or other forensic evidence (ie telephonic/electronic communications) from a witness who either participated in the demise and/or disposal of the bodies or saw the corpse after the killings but before they were buried.

Someone either flipped or snitched.


***** MOO ****** JMO ****** MOO ******JMO ****** MOO *****

Also, @Tortoise thank you so for the additional information—it is very helpful.

@Lea.B @Countem @BeckyF
I think they could tell by JJ's skull that it was him, he had very unusual teeth, and they knew immediately. and Tylee was a guess based on it being JJ. MOO
 
It looks like a sleeping bag to me too.

Did they camp at Yellowstone, or maybe pretend they were going to camp?

Both Coleman and North Face make orange bags with a light off white liner (not gray). Most have a darker gray lining.

The dig photo clearly shows a black handle, though. That wouldn't be on a sleeping bag. I'm thinking the remains may have been wrapped in a space blanket and then placed in the orange duffel.
 
Organophosphate poisoning is another cause of pulmonary embolisms. I imagine if organophosphate poisoning can cause them, there are other drugs/poisons that can too.

I don’t know if organophosphate (OP) would be a substance that would be tested for in autopsy, or if it can even be detected.

Here’s link to OP causing pulmonary embolisms:
Increased Risk of Deep Vein Thrombosis and Pulmonary Thromboembolism in Patients With Organophosphate Intoxication: A Nationwide Prospective Cohort Study

Here’s link to information about organophasphate — it’s something that can be foumd in a number of products.
Organophosphate poisoning: diagnosis and treatment

I don’t doubt that blood clots caused or contributed to his death. But I don’t think the blood clots just formed naturally.

I don’t know if organophosphate (OP) would be a substance that would be tested for in autopsy, or if it can even be detected.
In Trish's podcast from Friday, she had Joseph Scott Morgan on... he would know! Hopefully we can get his expertise again.
 
BBM. It is part of Chad's doctrine. People become zombies when an evil entity pushes their spirit out of their body. This is irreversible. The spirit is in limbo until the body is destroyed (killed) and only then it can progress to the next life (they believed in multiple mortal lives).
Therein lies their justification for murdering and egregiously destroying children's corpse(s)?
Sorry indi - not directed at you but I am beyond flabbergasted that anyone would be willing to sign up for this crap in any way. I can just imagine them sitting around their big firepit having fireside chat with their following (144k) asking people to raise their hands to join in.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
175
Guests online
1,375
Total visitors
1,550

Forum statistics

Threads
602,115
Messages
18,134,919
Members
231,238
Latest member
primelectrics
Back
Top