Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #39

[wenwe4]

@vislaw - the night (or it could have been the next day) the children's bodies were uncovered I went on Gray Hughes podcast. He was showing very good visuals on his YouTube channel that appeared to have better definition that I had seen previously. He mentioned he thought he saw a lidar in the big dig spot. IIRC there was an image where you could see just under a pop up tent into the hole they were working in. There was a black box down in the hole that he referenced. I have never been around lidar so I am not familiar.

 

[pizzaman12]

The verified friend of AC who posted earlier today is a valuable resource. But I'm not sure how willing she is to share intimate details, simply out of respect for her dear friend. If the questions are general in nature ...

Who is a verified member for AC? I've never noticed

 

[Teche]

this shows the shelter over the dig by the pond with items laid out on tarps.

PHOTO GALLERY: Aerial views as search warrant is executed on Chad Daybell's property | East Idaho News

It’s amazing how many LE vehicles bombarded the Daybell compound. Chad must have been madly scrolling google for an attorney to take his case.

 

[jjenny]

I know that. But it wouldn’t be done by a family member. OP speculated family members were in Rexburg before the bodies were found so they could identify remains.

I don't think bodies were in a condition good enough for family members to identify them. Family ID usually done on a recently dead body.

 

[AmandaSkis]

Legally, will Lori insist that she is the only one who can determine what is done with the remains? Will she make a decision to spite Larry and Kay? Will Larry and Kay have to do an injunction?

I'm wondering what will be the next legal steps for Larry and Kay to possible go to court for an emergency hearing to get legal decision making for such.

Recall that the state took guardianship of the children, and that sealed hearings have been taking place. I surmise that the Woodcocks have been granted guardianship or custody. I hope that someone else has custody of Tylee.

To me, this action that the state took shows foresight because hopefully, Lori has no claim to these children.

 

[cds0902]

I feel this is our most wonderful constant quest. Who was the dominant player, Chad or Lori? Even trying to tear apart Melanie's statement "Chad was the hand, and Lori the puppet" SEEMS to put Chad in control... but she basically concludes what I believe (right now anyway), "fatal attraction" that just happened. Both evil, and both made for each other (moo moo).

But I feel this will continue to be fun for us as the trial gets underway, and more evidence comes to light.. Who was the dominant player in this horror play???

We have all seen Lori being manipulative, getting what she wants no matter the cost, and at least for me I have seen Chad come across as not to bright! So, Lori knew the kids were in her way, she couldn’t climb the next rung on the ladder, they had to go. So Chad comes to the rescue with a plan, a not so smart plan. Sometimes I play with the idea that maybe, just maybe Lori did not know the kids were dead. My opinion is Chad single handedly killed and buried the kids with or w/o knowledge to Lori. Why would you store their things in a storage unit??? Why not drop it off at the goodwill! Be done with it if you knew they were never going to use them again.jmo

 

[Colorado303]

AC died from pulmonary embolism (blood clots in the lungs). One of the causes is inactivity, so too much activity in the bedroom wouldn't have done him in.
"Inactivity: During long periods of inactivity, gravity causes blood to stagnate in the lowest areas of your body, which may lead to a blood clot. This could occur if you’re sitting for a lengthy trip or if you’re lying in bed recovering from an illness."
Pulmonary Embolism: Causes, Symptoms, Risk Factors, and Treatment

Organophosphate poisoning is another cause of pulmonary embolisms. I imagine if organophosphate poisoning can cause them, there are other drugs/poisons that can too.

I don’t know if organophosphate (OP) would be a substance that would be tested for in autopsy, or if it can even be detected.

Here’s link to OP causing pulmonary embolisms:
Increased Risk of Deep Vein Thrombosis and Pulmonary Thromboembolism in Patients With Organophosphate Intoxication: A Nationwide Prospective Cohort Study

Here’s link to information about organophasphate — it’s something that can be foumd in a number of products.
Organophosphate poisoning: diagnosis and treatment

I don’t doubt that blood clots caused or contributed to his death. But I don’t think the blood clots just formed naturally.

 

[jjenny]

Carbon momoxide can cause pulmonary embolism also.
An Interesting Cause of Pulmonary Emboli: Acute Carbon Monoxide Poisoning - PubMed

 

[887sMtreme]

<Respectfully snipping fore and aft for focus>
Here is a quote from Cambridge website definition of difference: “Personality disorders are described in the International Classification of Mental and Behavioural Disorders (ICD-10)

In the US, the reference of record is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM, now in its fifth edition. There are some significant differences between it and the ICD used in the UK, but they are similar enough in this case. If diagnoses are discussed during upcoming trials, we might be hearing about DSM-V.

 

[jjenny]

We have all seen Lori being manipulative, getting what she wants no matter the cost, and at least for me I have seen Chad come across as not to bright! So, Lori knew the kids were in her way, she couldn’t climb the next rung on the ladder, they had to go. So Chad comes to the rescue with a plan, a not so smart plan. Sometimes I play with the idea that maybe, just maybe Lori did not know the kids were dead. My opinion is Chad single handedly killed and buried the kids with or w/o knowledge to Lori. Why would you store their things in a storage unit??? Why not drop it off at the goodwill! Be done with it if you knew they were never going to use them again.jmo

Lori apparently believed them to be dead when they were perfectly alive. According to Melanie G., when she went visit Lori in Rexburg, Lori told her that JJ become a "zombie." Lori also accused Charles of being a "zombie" and of course we all know what happened to Charles. I don't think there is a snowball chance in hell Lori didn't know that kids were killed.

 

[watergirl62]

oh yes i think we got that point pretty quickly

i was wondering if someone could find a sleeping bag or travel bag that might match

as i am in australia the brands are different might be really difficult for me to actually find something similar

It looks like a sleeping bag to me too.

Did they camp at Yellowstone, or maybe pretend they were going to camp?

Both Coleman and North Face make orange bags with a light off white liner (not gray). Most have a darker gray lining.

 

[Anonymom]

Totally.
The recent-ish comparator that many WSers are familiar with is Jodi Arias. She was diagnosed as "borderline" during the trial. There were no doubt features from other personality disorders (e.g. NPD), but the one that was presented via expert witness was BPD.
At the point where Arias was incarcerated, she doesn't seem to have slaughtered more than one person, though. In LCD we seem to have a serial killer, a trail of unexplained bodies.

Jodi Arias is just one example of BPD in high profile criminal cases.

I think Lori’s serial killing is related to BPD’s overwhelming fear of rejection or abandonment. Once she began to idealize Chad, she absolutely invested her life’s purpose in being accepted by him. In order for that to happen, spouses Charles and Tammy needed to be out of the way. She also decided that Tylee and JJ didn’t fit in with a future with Chad. He called them zombies. Not only did that make it easier for her to “split” from them, it showed her that they would not be accepted by Chad if she was to have a relationship with him. Besides, weren’t they dead already?

Lack of empathy is another hallmark of BPD. I have my own list of these examples, but perhaps someone else wants to offer their take?

Theories that try to explain her actions with more typical motivations of money and lust fall short for me. Yes, these were definitely part of it, just not a satisfactory explanation for everything we see. At least from Lori’s perspective.

I am still puzzled by Chad’s motivations. While I see a lot of pathology, I haven’t formed a unifying theory for all of it yet.

ETA MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Catching up on threads and see that many have analyzed the videos. I saw something in the VERY beginning of all the videos and still shots from the ground. Y'all talking about the black dog running made me recall that I noticed something early that ties into such I haven't seen mentioned.

There was something leaned up against a pole where the folks were digging at one point. I thought it looked like a black dog head, but not a real one! I was thinking "is this a stuffed animal that has some significance?" It was there for a long time in many shots. I specifically even did a google on the meaning of black dog as Dr. Campbell from COVID19 thread has a black dog on his shelf in every video and explained what it meant in one of them.

Just asking, did anyone else notice such? What do you think? (sorry, I don't know which shots I saw it in, but was within the first day of photos and videos coming out)

ETA: What I'm referring to is in the middle of this photo on the white brick next to pole. There were side/land views that it clearly looked like a stuffed dog, but I cannot find now.

View attachment 251207
‘Cult mom’ cops raided husband's property in JANUARY but missed kids' bodies

Hmmm, perhaps it's just a black camera? But you can see why I thought a black dog head? (If you stand on your head and squint lol)

View attachment 251208

Bonfires May Have Led Police To Search Chad Daybell's Yard, Neighbors Say

I don't know what it is but on a linked matter but not related to that unidentified item, I am wondering if JJ's favorite toy was buried with him.

I can't find reference to it now but I believe it was a character from a movie and Lori made it with parts she had to order.

ETA - I've found it now in the nanny's statement -

"He had this toy he really loved called "ducky". It was a toy him and his mom made from toy story. He loved it and carried it everywhere with him. She earlier explained to me how she had to order certain parts for the toy to make it complete."

https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com...watermarked-jjs-nanny-statement-to-police.pdf

 

[Spartygirl]

Been a busy and somber day. We spent the morning/afternoon hanging ribbon. East Idaho News
They are all over town now. It feels good to do something but my heart aches for JJ and Tylees families. I hope they feel welcomed and comforted by all of us who care.

Thank you @SleuthD-o-doubleg
Bless you for doing that for these 2 angels.
Thank you for being here with us.

We appreciate you and all the locals and VIs (@RexburgSleuth & @Jankee ) that are here in WS !!

 

[GRT]

I think you got it all wrong and Chad was running that whole dog and pony show. Listening to interview with Melanie G., Chad had Lori convinced that he was a visionary, and had her convinced some people were zombies. He also had her convinced they had been married multiple times in other lives. Sounds similar to what we know about Chad using his supposed visions to manipulate Tammy.

I agree. CD is a manipulator and a narcissist. I doubt he ever had a real OBE, but when he found out gullible people would believe he did -- and as a result, think he was some sort of prophet, he figured it was a good way to gain power over those gullible people. He wanted control. He wanted power. And, when he saw Lori, he really wanted Lori.

Lori isn't any normal person, though. No normal person can laugh and joke with officers less than an hour after her ex-husband is shot by her brother. Lori is a person who has no conscience, it seems. She fits virtually every sign of being a sociopath, including not being able to feel remorse and being a pathological liar.

I think it's rare that two such flawed individuals become attracted to one another, but when they do -- nothing good can come of it.

 

[mickey2942]

I am so happy that Idaho does not have an "Insanity" defense. These people are NOT insane. Crazy, yes. But plenty sane.

If the Woodcocks had not pressed the police to do a "welfare check" on JJ, Lori would be living in Hawaii.

If Lori had not used Charles Vallow's Amazon account to purchase items for her wedding, the Woodcocks would not have had her new address in Idaho.

So many details...

 

[Diddian]

Warning——



Thank you for taking the time to do that. I do appreciate learning something new. I do have a question.

The scanner that they used that you hadn’t in over 5 years... it sounds like outdated technology, I’m assuming this is FBI from Boise doing the analysis. Does each FBI location have possible different equipment? I’m just shocked that the most up to date methods were not available, unless I’m missing something.

Also, as they were gathered round looking in the dig space and possible remains were already on tarp, why do you think there was so much interest in the dig space? What was left to see? Am I seeing it right that the dirt in that one area looked darker?

Regarding the large rectangular shaped grid that was staked and/or marked off (and then divided into three smaller rectangles, one 1/2 the size of the full rectangle and two 1/4 the size of the full rectangle): I wonder if the grid is identical in size to the planned foundation for the modular home CD was considering for placement on the property, and if whoever did the lot survey in preparation for putting that foundation in (assuming that had been done) had noticed the odor of decomposition when visiting the site and reported it to LE. Perhaps LE first used the older surveying equipment on tripod to mark out the grid consistent with what that lot surveyor had done and then used what he had told them to identify the spot where he noticed the smell of remains consistent with what he had told about its location relative to the grid. All speculation on my part.

 

[jjenny]

Insanity defense wouldn't have flied (IMO) even if Idaho allowed it. For instance, when Charles was killed, neither Lori nor Alex declared he had to be killed because he was a zombie. Alex claimed self-defense, not righteous zombie killing. These people knew right from wrong full well, because police weren't getting their crazy stories.

 

[SiberianSleuth]

That's awesome. I'm estimating the orange object to be 3-3.5' square (taking into consideration the folds and wrinkles in the middle). I want to see how close my unscientific measurements are. Jmo

Maybe something like this?
Gonex 150L Travel Duffel Bag Foldable Extra Large Duffle Bag XL Heavy Duty for Men Women for Luggage Shopping https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PVFH4HD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ScJ5EbCKJ1T2Q
We all know she likes Amazon.

 

[Colorado303]

Want to hazard a guess as to what purpose the marriage served?

Lori had indicated that marriage was a requirement to qualify as one of the chosen 144,444. Can’t remember if it was said in MG’s email to the podcaster (that one that did the powerpoint video w/weird background music) or it was in the information Ian gave when cooperating w/the FBI or both. .