Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #13

[IronOrchid]

Who in the world knows. But I am pretty sure that MB didn't move to Idaho to go to school before Lori did. Basically, it would appear Lori would tell different things to different people. She was reportedly telling people she was moving because she herself got a job. To her neighbor in Rexburg she reportedly said she moved there to attend school. And never mind all the stories she told about how Charles died.
To her own son Colby she reportedly told Charles died of a heart attack (per Colby himself). To JJ's school she reportedly said Charles killed himself. To Charles' children were who asking what happened, she told they had to wait for medical examiner.
She should just pick one story and stick to it.

I can get tiny lies, but these lies, real talk, are a full time side job.

 

[jjenny]

They do have procedures at a crime scene. Not sure why it was said to have been cleaned up though. I'm sure there's a reason why they cleaned up the blood though. They have investigators that would have came in prior to take pictures, collect DNA & fingerprints. Maybe there's more so I'll wait Thanks dig!

It was said to have been cleaned up because the cop decided to clean up a large pool of blood that formed under Charles' body before Alex returned. It's in a police report.
Cops don't normally clean up bloody crime scenes but this one did. Chandler police should be asked why this happened. Why is the cop cleaning up blood that formed under the victim's body? What was he using to clean up this blood? Cops don't carry with them protective gear to clean up blood since it's not their job.

 

[ReadyorNot]

IMO LV has done her best to alienate TR from that side of the family, it was documented that she did the same with TRs bio dad as well. IMO she had probably started to do the same with JJ as well...her statement to police after CV was shot pretty much sums that up.

TR probably believed everything her mum told her. Even by KW press statement they said she was a lovely person until the CD books came about. TR had little reason to doubt her mum sadly. Kids believe and trust their parents. It’s upto us as parents not to abuse that trust. MOO

Even Colby R. believed everything his mom said and refused to even listen to anything Charles V had to say despite the fact that he admits that CV was a very good man... per Colby's own words in his interview.

I think its obvious Lori was manipulating the kid's opinions of others.

 

[ReadyorNot]

Here come the fraud charges, imo

Medical records are not the only documents detectives are looking for. In the Rexburg search warrant, police are also interested in school records and documents related to state assistance received on behalf of JJ. The warrant details officers could obtain bank records “which may be evidence of payments received on behalf of the child as well as payments or expenses made for the child.”

It could also be to firmly establish the level of disability and the inability to care for himself without specialized care that necessitates urgent action by the court.

 

[Tortoise]

<rsbm>
Again and again and again... it begs the question who had Tylees back? Who is fighting for her? Yes, CR but he has his own young family. Why are others not stepping up? I know many of us are aggravated and dumbfounded by this.
Moo

Indeed.

I'm very interested to know who in Lori's family would not have known Tylee was alive after 2017, or been in contact since 2017 with at least Colby or other family members such as Lori's parents or siblings, and would have been contacted by Lori in November. Was this person perhaps a witness at Lori and Chad's marriage? It seems she was either away getting married or at the house in Idaho during that time.

Approx Nov 2019 - After Lori & Chad married, Lori told family members that Tylee died in 2017, a year before Tylee’s dad JR died in 2018, and Chad told family members that Lori had no minor children. Both statements are untrue. Rexburg PD released this info in Dec 30, 2019 press release (Rexburg Journal).
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #13

 

[Colorado303]

Who in the world knows. But I am pretty sure that MB didn't move to Idaho to go to school before Lori did. Basically, it would appear Lori would tell different things to different people. She was reportedly telling people she was moving because she herself got a job. To her neighbor in Rexburg she reportedly said she moved there to attend school. And never mind all the stories she told about how Charles died.
To her own son Colby she reportedly told Charles died of a heart attack (per Colby himself). To JJ's school she reportedly said Charles killed himself. To Charles' children were who asking what happened, she told they had to wait for medical examiner.
She should just pick one story and stick to it.

What, if anything, do we know about people who tell lies when they don’t need to, and vary the lie each time it’s told? It seems odd to me. I can understand not wanting to say your husband was shot by your brother to make things sound better (or yourself look better). But what would motivate someone to say heart attack to one person, waiting for ME to another and suicide to a third? Especially when the truth is bound to come out?

Is it similar to why kleptomaniacs steal things they don’t want or need? A sign they don’t remember the lies they told? Symptoms of a break from reality? Personal amusement? What???

 

[Hippoinatutu]

Does anyone have any links to MB court paperwork? I guess most will be under seal because of minors. But I'd still like to see what I can glean. Thank you.

 

[AJF-Aus]

Simple question and sincere apologies in advance I’ve just come across this and read the timeline and press. Why can’t Lori be arrested on suspicion of endangering the children already - she hasn’t produced them and the deadline was missed? Is this a failing of the law somehow? The children are clearly missing.

 

[kye0001]

What, if anything, do we know about people who tell lies when they don’t need to, and vary the lie each time it’s told? It seems odd to me. I can understand not wanting to say your husband was shot by your brother to make things sound better (or yourself look better). But what would motivate someone to say heart attack to one person, waiting for ME to another and suicide to a third? Especially when the truth is bound to come out?

Is it similar to why kleptomaniacs steal things they don’t want or need? A sign they don’t remember the lies they told? Symptoms of a break from reality? Personal amusement? What???

A break from reality is a interesting concept as anyone with a sense of reality would know that this mess they have created should never have happened. Personal amusement/power (they’re the only ones..the chosen ones that deserve to know the truth). I think even a leading psychologist would have a field day on these two JMO.

This is interesting:

Why Do People Lie: 9 Motives for Telling Lies

 

[mickey2942]

I can get tiny lies, but these lies, real talk, are a full time side job.

Not unlike Casey Anthony, who lied about having a job at Universal Studios, to the point of actually leading police officers around there for 1/2 an hour before admitting that she did not work there.

 

[kye0001]

Simple question and sincere apologies in advance I’ve just come across this and read the timeline and press. Why can’t Lori be arrested on suspicion of endangering the children already - she hasn’t produced them and the deadline was missed? Is this a failing of the law somehow? The children are clearly missing.

I suspect that at first with the deaths/disappearances happening across so many states very little was tied together and it’s possible they didn’t realise how serious this all was. Fast forward to December when LE realises, possibly starts sharing information across the various LE agencies and listening to KW, LW, BB and whoever else was demanding answers.

I expect that it’s taking so long because now they’re in Hawaii they’re going to need a solid case to arrest them. Possibly also there’s so many people involved? They’re waiting for several autopsy results. They might also be trying to follow their movements in the hope that LV will accidentally lead them to the children? I’ve also considered if they have evidence to support that the children are no longer alive and waiting until the snow melts to search (I hope I’m wrong).

It’s frustrating but we can only hope they’re being really thorough and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before they act. MOO

 

[AJF-Aus]

I suspect that at first with the deaths/disappearances happening across so many states very little was tied together and it’s possible they didn’t realise how serious this all was. Fast forward to December when LE realises, possibly starts sharing information across the various LE agencies and listening to KW, LW, BB and whoever else was demanding answers.

I expect that it’s taking so long because now they’re in Hawaii they’re going to need a solid case to arrest them. Possibly also there’s so many people involved? They’re waiting for several autopsy results. They might also be trying to follow their movements in the hope that LV will accidentally lead them to the children? I’ve also considered if they have evidence to support that the children are no longer alive and waiting until the snow melts to search (I hope I’m wrong).

It’s frustrating but we can only hope they’re being really thorough and making sure they have all their ducks in a row before they act. MOO

Thanks yes I guess that makes sense. Appreciated.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

There is no way I can catch up from where I left off on Tuesday. With so little being disclosed by LE, I've been thinking more about where the kids could be if they are still alive. This leads me to wanting to know more about chad's beliefs. In particular, beliefs about polygamy and/or marrying young girls off. Everyone connected to those two whatevers remarried instantly. Did they marry Tylee off too? Is that why there is no concern coming from this supposed mother? If so, I've turned to maps for various compounds. That's gonna be a project for a long cold weekend in between working. Ugh!

 

[Busymom4]

Who was the coroner that attended TD's death and signed off on no autopsy and authorized transfer to the funeral home? Is that written anywhere? Any Forms in the media on that name? I know things in small towns don't always follow protocol because there are so many connections. People have known each other for years and like to keep peace, not cause trouble, take people at their word etc. Could this be this type of situation or could it possibly be that the coroner is associated with CD's belief systems.....

Also making me scratch my brain is the way the cops report says he decided to clean up the blood before Alex came back...... it sends a very familiar vibe.... was he a friend of Alex outside this case? Why was he worried about Alex coming back to the blood? Wouldn't he be more concerned about Jj coming back and seeing that? Was he helping to clean up because he was attending the pool party there later in the day?
So many questions.....

 

[Axie]

Not unlike Casey Anthony, who lied about having a job at Universal Studios, to the point of actually leading police officers around there for 1/2 an hour before admitting that she did not work there.

Just like Casey Anthony.

Remember the lies she was telling about Caylees whereabouts?! Before finding the skeletal remains nearly 6mos later.

I believe Casey was initially held on basic lying to investigators which is a misdemeanor..

Remember how many times they bonded CA out too?

They told her they were going for the dp if they find the body before she confessed.

Casey maintained the babysitter kidnap story until Baez did opening statements.

Very much shades of Casey.

Narcissistic personality disorder is terrifying!

 

[Axie]

Waves! Im new but been lurking off on for years!

My very own opinion is at some point Lori will blame her brother for the missing kids.

And the lawyers will claim that he was supposed to take them to someone else and didn't...now he's dead, possibly suicide...MOO of course but I expect AC is the fall guy.

 

[Busymom4]

Who was the coroner that attended TD's death and signed off on no autopsy and authorized transfer to the funeral home? Is that written anywhere? Any Forms in the media on that name? I know things in small towns don't always follow protocol because there are so many connections. People have known each other for years and like to keep peace, not cause trouble, take people at their word etc. Could this be this type of situation or could it possibly be that the coroner is associated with CD's belief systems.....

Also making me scratch my brain is the way the cops report says he decided to clean up the blood before Alex came back...... it sends a very familiar vibe.... was he a friend of Alex outside this case? Why was he worried about Alex coming back to the blood? Wouldn't he be more concerned about Jj coming back and seeing that? Was he helping to clean up because he was attending the pool party there later in the day?
So many questions.....

Found this Fox news clip Justin posted
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?
story_fbid=168996291214325&id=134640763365616
Brenda is the name .. but more info in the fact that there's no police report at all on TD death

 

[jjenny]

There is no way I can catch up from where I left off on Tuesday. With so little being disclosed by LE, I've been thinking more about where the kids could be if they are still alive. This leads me to wanting to know more about chad's beliefs. In particular, beliefs about polygamy and/or marrying young girls off. Everyone connected to those two whatevers remarried instantly. Did they marry Tylee off too? Is that why there is no concern coming from this supposed mother? If so, I've turned to maps for various compounds. That's gonna be a project for a long cold weekend in between working. Ugh!

There is no evidence to suggest Chad and Lori believed in polygamy. Chad was married to one woman for 30 years. Lori was married four times prior to marrying Chad, but she divorced (or the husband died) prior to a new marriage. It would be legal for Tylee to get married in Idaho at 17. There would be absolutely no need to hide her.

 

[Axie]

I mean I guess the only argument against that would be she wanted to be in a place where she could do a more natural approach and not forced,she could get another service dog anywhere... (not saying this is likely here in this case)

Stripping a young autistic child of everything familiar is the opposite of holistic approach.

It's sad, but there is no other way around it...

JJ lost his dad, home, ALL relationships (mom isn't with him to parent anyway) all belongings?!

That would be a huge tailspin for an autistic child.

I mean expect the biggest fit you can imagine a child that age could throw. It can make him catatonic! It's that serious.

Especially the service dog which should have been with him all day even at school.
The point of the dog is the calming effect they have on autistic children.

Just feeding him would be hard for someone unfamiliar. He probably can't handle foods touching each other or other things that are strange to us.

Nothing good about him not being with those belongings. Nothing. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

I’ve been wondering if someone with knowledge could interpret the lividity that was found. We have no time on the report so I don’t know if normal to see when this report was done, but I would assume it was while Alex was outside on curb. So could only have been what 30 -45 min according to Alex’s story?

It's absolutely not relevant to whether AC could have moved Charles.

From the linked article -

lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping

Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed - Rigor Mortis and Lividity


Let's look at the sentence in his report again and break it down -

Based on the lividity present and lack of blood spatter, there was no indication that Vallow was moved from the position in which he was found.

Based on the lividity present :

There is objective evidence that the very latest Charles could have been shot was approx. 8:15am, for Lori to be back after taking JJ to school. And the earliest about 7:30am. That is the time he said he would arrive to pick up JJ.

So lividity could be altered by moving the body as many times as he liked, before calling 911 at 8:37am (when he is probably not moving the body because the pool of blood underneath the body seems to have him in the location found) until 1:30pm to 2:15 pm when it would fix.

If it was present when medics first arrived, there is a serious problem with the story Alex gave of him being shot 5 minutes before he called 911, and the officer should have noted that glaring discrepancy.

Bottom line - lividity which must have developed after LE arrived (based on Charles' arrival time) is not going to show whether the body was moved in that first 45 minutes, because the blood inside his body could continue to move and resettle for up to six hours.

Lack of blood spatter:

Wowser. He sees blood in the sink and assumes it came from the shooter washing his hands before calling 911. Firstly, has this officer never heard of criminals cleaning up the scenes of their crimes? He cannot know the blood in the sink did not come from cleaning up blood smears from dragging, turning or moving the body. Alex has a very good reason for telling officers where they will find blood evidence. Secondly, absence or lack of anything is not proof of where a body fell. He should be citing evidence such as spatter to say that is where the shooting happened, not absence.


Moved from the position in which he was found:

Flawed statement. The question is whether he was moved to the position in which he was found, not after he was found. Cox was outside when the body was found.



This officer is writing about matters outside the scope of his training and expertise, as a non medical expert, and imo, the effect of his report is to influence an investigation towards a certain outcome. It is mere confirmation bias and twaddle.

moo