Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #13

[Colorado303]

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I came at the same information from the CDC which is more user friendly with descriptions, IMO.

Idaho - Coroner/ME Laws | CDC

I have a family member certified and trained as a Medicolegal Death Investigator. One of the first things they are taught when they go for that training is if you want to get away with murder, do it in a state where coroners are elected. In Idaho the coroner is elected. Requirements are US Citizen, at least 21 years old, resides in the county where they are elected, and will go to training in the future. That is it. No prior medical training required.

I don't see anything wrong with what the coroner did here. There are 3 situations that require investigation.
Stillborn baby, No.
Apparent violence/suicide/homicide. No, not apparent.
Suspicious or unknown circumstances. TD died at home in bed, that is known. Suspicious? In hindsight, sure.

The coroner's duty for a death not attended by or certified by a physician is only to report it to the Sheriff, which was clearly done here. Had TD died in a state with a Medical Examiner's office instead of a coroner system the autopsy would have been required by law.

Lovely. NOT! This is disturbing. So it’s up to someone who may well know less about suspicious deaths than WS members to determine if it’s suspicious. If they think it is, it goes to LE who’ll investigate IF LE thinks it’s warranted.

How would LE know without having a medical examination? But there is no ME so someone has to find and schedule a doc to come look at the body. And PAY them to do it— probably from funds out of the city/county LE budget. Funds LE needs for new police cars, weapons, radios, computers, Kevlar vests, raises, add’l personnel and the annual Christmas Party.

Lots of reasons why LE wouldn’t recognize they need to investigate plus a few incentives not to if they’re on the fence. And easy to rationalize in a small town where everyone knows everyone that of course there was no foul play.

That’s just crazy to me. I’m foggy on why the Coroner is even there. Seriously, why? Just send in the local cop to say “Yep. She’s dead”. The cop at least has received first responder first aid training. He knows CPR . He’s been taught to check for signs of life. The Coroner may just know how to bake really good cookies.

Why not just let the cops confirm the persons dead and decide if it’s suspicious or not then act accordingly. The front desk officer or community service volunteer can type out the desk certificate and file it. Cut out the middleman.

Yep. If I were going to kill someone I’d head straight for a place w/a coroner.

 

[mrjitty]

Or just a very cold heart. Likely nobody in the family suspected that he was leading a double life. Maybe he justified getting rid of Tammy as part of his religious mission.

Yep - I am wondering if they got away with this thing for so long because of the share audacity and insanity of it, but also because of their pious backgrounds? Who would suspect any of this until the bigger picture emerges?

I mean at it's core, it seems like it might not have just been Chad + Lori but actually some strange foursome including Alex and Melani?

What is also really unclear exactly is why they needed to kill Tammy, Charles and Brandon - it's actually why i suspect they indoctrinated themselves into wild cult beliefs.

Perhaps Lori and Chad are some toxic combination. Chad essentially a grifter who attracted a dangerous psychopath in Lori who became his devotee - together they crossed the border into total evil

 

[Colorado303]

Attempt on Brandon's life can be passed off as natural causes or self-defense, so that's a definite crime.

Yep. Another crime committed by Alex. That’s what their attorney will claim. And if Alex has an alibi, then he hired someone.

 

[indicolite22]

Another Fox affiliate's interview with JJ's dog's trainer:

Arizona dog trainer says Lori Vallow-Daybell gave up son’s service dog shortly before children went missing

Apparently Lori didn't want the trainer to talk to JJ or Tylee when she returned the dog, despite JJ being there.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

I think Tammy's relatives are by all accounts, mostly confused right now. Apparently Chad and Tammy had a marriage that was okay enough. You'd have to have a lot of rage at something or another to kill a mother of five, let alone your own spouse.

Good point.

 

[indicolite22]

What is also really unclear exactly is why they needed to kill Tammy, Charles and Brandon - it's actually why i suspect they indoctrinated themselves into wild cult beliefs.

IMO life insurance money was a motive in all three cases.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO life insurance money was a motive in all three cases.

Sure that could be the case

But I am more interested in the psychopathic aspect here.

Chad appears to have been just a run of the mill grifter. Lori Vallow is a dangerous psychopath in my opinion.

I am wondering if there is some kind of Bonnie and Clyde aspect here.

The arrival of this insane / unbalanced woman in his life, convinced him of his own nonsense.

I mean a love triangle murder is not unusual, but here we are talking about them both murdering their spouses, and the kids, before we even get into whatever happened with Brandon / Alex

 

[Colorado303]

Anyone who’s been on these threads for a while knows I’ve been ranting about how horribly Chandler PD handled CV’s death “investigation”. In comparison ID LE has done a pretty amazing job if you think about it. Now that I understand the whole wacky coroner system I don’t really blame them for not tracking down and hiring someone to do an autopsy on Tammy. Especially when the family didn’t want one. Huge kudos to them for acknowledging maybe something was missed and having her body exhumed. They weren’t lazy and weren’t concerned with covering their butts —once suspicious they immediately started searching for the truth.

I also don’t blame them for not noticing Tylee snd JJ were missing. Once they were aware they existed and were mysteriously gone, they kicked *advertiser censored* getting search warrants for 3 residences and a storage locker almost immediately.

And they tracked Chad and Lori, wrangled the news media to keep info under wraps, coordinated w/local authorities and invested to send a whole team to hawaii when it was time to seize the Daybell rental car and Lori’s purse in exchange for a baggie.

The ID departments have been consistently professional since the investigation began and are clearly committed to finding the truth. I’m sure they haven’t been perfect but IMO are doing their very best for JJ, Tylee, Tammy and their community. Despite the small town, low crime environment I’m confident if guilt can be proved, these folks will do everything needed to make sure justice is served.

Lori would have been much better off staying in Chandler.

MOO (but it’s a strong one)

 

[Bit of hope]

Their paradise soon turned into a prison though...reportedly they haven’t been out in days Imagine knowing all that beauty is outside your door and not being able to go out into it MOO

Are they still alive, I wonder...were they seen in the last days couple of days...

 

[mrjitty]

Yep. Another crime committed by Alex. That’s what their attorney will claim. And if Alex has an alibi, then he hired someone.

This is going to be the obvious defence for Chad isn't it. Alex did all the murders.

 

[janewall]

A private investigator hired by Brandon in October came to Rexburg. Maybe Chad was spotted at Lori's townhouse. If Gilbert police notified Freemont County within days of Tammy's death, Idaho LE might have started following Chad and Lori sooner than we think.

I'm really glad Brandon's still around. Between his speaking to the press, and what his PI may have discovered and passed on to LE, I believe he has been a gold mine of information about the principals in this case and the details of their interactions with other key people.

Someone may have suspected he'd do exactly that if he was pushed too far, or if he began to connect the dots, hence the attempted hit on him. (I do love the irony of that scenario – by attempting to assassinate him, the shooter may have created precisely the problem they were trying to eliminate.)

 

[IronOrchid]

Are they still alive, I wonder...were they seen in the last days couple of days...

Yep, but they better stay the away from Kona...

 

[IronOrchid]

Wait, my wires got crossed. No one has seen the kids. I meant Chad and Lori better stay away from Kona. If they come here I'll throw the giant centapede always hanging out by my deck at them.

 

[Bit of hope]

Wait, my wires got crossed. No one has seen the kids. I meant Chad and Lori better stay away from Kona. If they come here I'll throw the giant centapede always hanging out by my deck at them.

I understood. Sorry for the confusion. I meant are Lori and Chad still alive, because they are hiding in a hotel room for days now...(who brings them food btw)

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Well, one thing we can guarantee is, as if her frequent marriages weren't enough of a sign, Lori isn't very brave and she doesn't have very much stick-to-it-iveness.

I mean, I can understand not wanting to text Charles's kids "well, hey, actually my brother shot Charles in cold blood, I mean self-defense, but it was a mistake, oopsie, sorry!"; but if you're gonna engineer it, I feel pretty sternly you've gotta own it, and not say "Eh, it's up to the ME!"

I'm also side-eyeing the CPD really hard again, as why was Lori so confident that the determination was going to be "self-defense"? That, coupled with Officer Crime-Scene-Cleaner, a good DA should be able to make a sturdy batch of vodka lemonade with, MOO, IMO.

PS: When it comes to Officer C-S-C, I do think it's possible there's a benign interpretation to his actions; namely, that someone else has told him it is unlikely to be named a crime scene. I'm not implying that the person making the judgment call was doing anything untoward; just that maybe it happened, because otherwise I'm at a loss as to why the officer would write about cleaning up blood spatter in his report.



IMO, looking into this won't help you reach a definitive answer and will just be a rabbit hole; because lots of people believe lots of different things. I think I'll let someone else explain the different points of view, important parts BBM:

BBC - Religions - Christianity: End Times

The Rapture is the event in which Christ carries the faithful believers off to heaven before the Tribulation.

This word refers to a "taking up" of Christians, both alive and dead, at the return of Christ. The idea is based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17, which speaks of Christians who are alive being "caught up in the air" at Christ's return. Rapture derives from Latin for "to seize" (rapere, also the root for raptor, a bird of prey).

During the Millennium the believers will remain in heaven, and God will be working on earth with the people of Israel.

Some Christians believe in the rapture, but disagree about the timing. Some think the rapture will occur at the end of the tribulation period and others believe it will occur in the middle.

Many Evangelical Christians, including the Brethren, follow John Nelson Darby in believing that the rapture will happen before the great tribulation, sparing Christians from a terrible experience.

Other Christians believe that the Rapture will occur during the Great Tribulation, or after it, while yet other Christians don't believe it will happen at all.

Darby
Darby added a new element to millennial beliefs when he said that Christ's second coming would come in three parts:

• the Rapture
• the Great Tribulation - when the antichrist will rule the earth, and the Jews will be converted and do God's work. This is expected to be a terrifying time for those who remain on earth.
• the Second Coming - when Christ will return with the saints to crush the antichrist and rule the earth for 1000 years.

Yes, I'm with you, as this certainly seems to belie that Lori has any true motherly feelings.

Though a grown man, her son is now currently, basically, an orphan for all intents and purposes; and with a new baby of his own in the bargain, in which she apparently has no interest. Lori doesn't think he could need her either? Or feel any compunction herself about being without him?

AFAIK he's been "hers" since he was born. Having all of her support removed, is doubtless a bitter pill to swallow for a young man.

If this wasn’t so incredibly sad and tragic, it would be a comedy of turning absolutely everything good , God, religion, motherhood, into pure evil , inside out and upside down. Neglecting abandoning and murdering all of your loved ones, including your very own babies, in order to get busy doing God’s work and preparing for His arrival. Talk about convoluted interpretations of God and religion!

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Well, one thing we can guarantee is, as if her frequent marriages weren't enough of a sign, Lori isn't very brave and she doesn't have very much stick-to-it-iveness.

I mean, I can understand not wanting to text Charles's kids "well, hey, actually my brother shot Charles in cold blood, I mean self-defense, but it was a mistake, oopsie, sorry!"; but if you're gonna engineer it, I feel pretty sternly you've gotta own it, and not say "Eh, it's up to the ME!"

I'm also side-eyeing the CPD really hard again, as why was Lori so confident that the determination was going to be "self-defense"? That, coupled with Officer Crime-Scene-Cleaner, a good DA should be able to make a sturdy batch of vodka lemonade with, MOO, IMO.

PS: When it comes to Officer C-S-C, I do think it's possible there's a benign interpretation to his actions; namely, that someone else has told him it is unlikely to be named a crime scene. I'm not implying that the person making the judgment call was doing anything untoward; just that maybe it happened, because otherwise I'm at a loss as to why the officer would write about cleaning up blood spatter in his report.



IMO, looking into this won't help you reach a definitive answer and will just be a rabbit hole; because lots of people believe lots of different things. I think I'll let someone else explain the different points of view, important parts BBM:

BBC - Religions - Christianity: End Times

The Rapture is the event in which Christ carries the faithful believers off to heaven before the Tribulation.

This word refers to a "taking up" of Christians, both alive and dead, at the return of Christ. The idea is based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17, which speaks of Christians who are alive being "caught up in the air" at Christ's return. Rapture derives from Latin for "to seize" (rapere, also the root for raptor, a bird of prey).

During the Millennium the believers will remain in heaven, and God will be working on earth with the people of Israel.

Some Christians believe in the rapture, but disagree about the timing. Some think the rapture will occur at the end of the tribulation period and others believe it will occur in the middle.

Many Evangelical Christians, including the Brethren, follow John Nelson Darby in believing that the rapture will happen before the great tribulation, sparing Christians from a terrible experience.

Other Christians believe that the Rapture will occur during the Great Tribulation, or after it, while yet other Christians don't believe it will happen at all.

Darby
Darby added a new element to millennial beliefs when he said that Christ's second coming would come in three parts:

• the Rapture
• the Great Tribulation - when the antichrist will rule the earth, and the Jews will be converted and do God's work. This is expected to be a terrifying time for those who remain on earth.
• the Second Coming - when Christ will return with the saints to crush the antichrist and rule the earth for 1000 years.

Yes, I'm with you, as this certainly seems to belie that Lori has any true motherly feelings.

Though a grown man, her son is now currently, basically, an orphan for all intents and purposes; and with a new baby of his own in the bargain, in which she apparently has no interest. Lori doesn't think he could need her either? Or feel any compunction herself about being without him?

AFAIK he's been "hers" since he was born. Having all of her support removed, is doubtless a bitter pill to swallow for a young man.

If this wasn’t so incredibly sad and tragic, it would be a comedy of turning absolutely everything good , God, religion, motherhood, into pure evil , inside out and upside down. Neglecting abandoning and murdering all of your loved ones, including your very own babies, in order to get busy doing God’s work and preparing for His arrival. Talk about convoluted interpretations of God and religion!

 

[Colorado303]

I'm going to get in trouble for talking about funeral potatoes like I did for fry sauce. Think of a casserole (hot dish, if you're from Minnesota) that doesn't have any meat, but is a combination of shredded potatoes, cheese, I think cream of mushroom (or cream of something) soup, and possibly diced onions (but not sure) and maybe a few other ingredients. It's kind of a staple side dish that are among the things always served at a post funeral get together at the church for family and out of towners at a Mormon funeral.

If you search on Amazon for funeral potatoes you'll find a company makes an instant version of them (ideal for your food storage, preppers) available from there.

I know this isn’t pertinent to anything but I can’t stop wondering. Are funeral potatoes reserved just for mourning or do people eat them all the time?

 

[IronOrchid]

I understood. Sorry for the confusion. I meant are Lori and Chad still alive, because they are hiding in a hotel room for days now...(who brings them food btw)

Maybe rom service, but I doubt it. Who would accept them as guests? The hotel industry talks to each other a bunch,

I know this isn’t pertinent to anything but I can’t stop wondering. Are funeral potatoes reserved just for mourning or do people eat them all the time?

I can't imagine any hotel would accept them, but here we are...

 

[Colorado303]

I think it was the BB shooting that began the digging, since it seems the police had closed the CV shooting as self defense, but maybe the shooting of BB led them to look again at CV's killing and the two cases led to Lori in Rexburg, her new husband and his recently deceased wife. MOO
As I recall, BB was pretty quick in approaching the press to tell about what had happened to him, and that's where we started hearing about his wife and this 'cult'--after the police asked for the public's help in finding the two children about Dec. 20th. MOO

Are there any as of yet unsolved suburban murders or disappearances in the Chandler/Gilbert area that occurred last year?

 

[IronOrchid]

I know this isn’t pertinent to anything but I can’t stop wondering. Are funeral potatoes reserved just for mourning or do people eat them all the time?

Sounds like people eat them a lot. I haven't ever eaten them myself but I've certainly heard of them, and they were at this funeral I went to once.