Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14

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FYI, the last identified zombies, in their world, showed as dead, Charles Vallow, Tammy Daybell and Alexander Cox and those missing, Tylee Ryan and Joshua J Vallow, are at risk because they are considered “zombies”.
Forgive me for being lost but I do not understand the zombie references. I must have skipped over them somehow. Would someone please explain them? Thank you. ( did Chad start turning his religion into science fiction with zombies????). Thanks again for all the hard work and research (. Every morning I wake up frantically hoping to read arrest.)
 
What happens if Tylee reaches adulthood before the process is over? Does her status change, even if she's still missing by that time?
She would then be considered a missing adult and would not be subject to any proceedings related to child welfare.

Since she has to be listed in NCIC that will follow her around until she is located and identified. Should she be encountered by law enforcement that would likely result in her being detained until they can confirm who she is, worse, if she is encountered in a vehicle with others they would also be detained until law enforcement can determine that it is her and that she is unharmed and is where she is of her own free will. We have actually had people that were listed as missing at age 17 show up after they became an adult and post on their thread here at WS saying they aren't missing. We tell them that they need to contact their local law enforcement because they will remain in NCIC until they are seen in person by law enforcement.
 
I'm sure the feds can block their travel on commercial carriers by flagging their passports.

But if you are familiar with Hawaii you would know that at any given time there are dozens of foreign fishing vessels in port. Most crew cannot leave the ship because ICE watches. But anyone can enter the ship. And when they get back to home port in, say, Samoa, no one will look closely. I only pick Samoa because it is one of dozens of possible countries. They could probably bribe a captain to take them for less than they are paying per night in Kauai!

I hope they try to go to Samoa. Samoa is turning away it's own citizens over fear of coronavirus: Samoa turns away eight of its own citizens over coronavirus fears
I'd like to see Lori and Chad try sneaking into Samoa during this heightened state of emergency over that virus. I don't think they would get away with it. If it was that easy to get smuggled into Samoa, then citizens wanting to escape the coronavirus-heavy infection areas would be doing just that. I also don't think Lori and Chad could leave their hotel unseen to find a foreign fishing vessel to smuggle them anywhere. They are international news now. I don't think it's wise to assume that foreign fishermen and would-be smugglers won't have read the news-- they probably know all about Lori and Chad. The risk isn't worth whatever bribe Lori and Chad could offer them.
MOO.
 
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I hope we are getting closer to being able to talk about IP... I do see him mentioned in MSM articles quite a bit. yes, I do get a tiny bit obsessed with who he is etc. Since this is all about the children, did he have children with his earlier marriage? And does anyone know anything about Melaleuca? This is a medical wellness and supplements MLM company where IP appears to have worked for 8 years in Rexburg. Interestingly, Melaleuca is owned by the richest billionnaire in Idaho! But who is IP and were he and MBP a thing, when AC and MB dumped all the childrens belongings on the curb??
 
Where did CV live in TX before his death? His obit says Houston (in the city? in the suburbs?) but if I google him I get last known addresses of Austin, TX and Queen Creek, AZ. It seems like he moved a lot for a guy around 60 with a family, MOO. What I'm really trying to get at is any real estate that was owned by CV and/or LV?
 
The kids, definitely JJ is a resident of Idaho because Lori ended up a resident of Idaho.

The instant Lori enrolled JJ in a public school she established JJ (and herself) as a resident of Idaho. Under Idaho Statutes:

An individual who has a place of abode in Idaho and is present in Idaho for other than a temporary or transitory purpose is deemed to reside in Idaho.

An individual is present in Idaho only for a temporary or transitory purpose if he does not engage in any activity or conduct in Idaho other than that of a vacationer, seasonal visitor, tourist, or guest.
Idaho can claim jurisdiction over JJ (and almost certainly Tylee) at a minimum because his last known residency is Idaho. If Lori wants to argue otherwise then she must prove it and the only way to prove it is to reveal where JJ is because he is certainly not with Lori in Hawaii. Arguments of jurisdiction are not predicated on the State having the burden of proof. Each side has to try to prove their case. Idaho has the establishment of a residency by renting the townhouse and enrolling JJ in public school. Lori has to prove Idaho lacks jurisdiction by proving where JJ (and likely Tylee) is.

The State of Idaho can, as authorized by statute, initiate a case on the basis of:

Reason to believe that a child has been abused, neglected or abandoned, or subject to conditions or circumstances which would reasonably result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect​

Lori being in Hawaii without her children is a circumstance that can reasonably be construed to have resulted in neglect and/or abandonment. Thus, the intervention by the State of Idaho and the order by the court to produce the children. The purpose of the order to produce the children almost certainly states that it is to ascertain whether or not the children have been abused or neglected. Notice that the requirement is not that the State has to prove the children were abused, neglected, or abandoned only that there is reason to believe that is the case. Lori is free to refute such allegations and a judge will decide who prevails. It is not a criminal case so the burden of proof does not rest solely on the State.

She doesn't get to avoid this due to "parental rights". States have rights too. Idaho has an interest in the welfare of children and has constitutionally valid laws for intervening on behalf of children in adversarial actions against parents. Judges get to decide the best interests of children when two parties - in this case the State of Idaho and Lori - cannot agree on what is in the best interest of the involved children. That libertarians believe that their own interests carry more weight than the state's interest means little in the scheme of things and much more often than not serves to make their situation worse than it would otherwise be.

Keep in mind that the order to Lori to produce the children is not from an action commenced by the Woodcocks. They only filed a Guardianship case days after Lori was served. There was already a case by the State of Idaho in progress that we have not seen any of the docket to even know when it began since Child Welfare cases are not public information in Idaho and we only were given what the Court decided the State Attorney could release. That is why Lori's battle is with the State of Idaho (i.e. the People of Idaho). Idaho statutes only give legal standing to State Attorney's to file Child Welfare cases so that is how I am certain this is a case by the State of Idaho against Lori.

The Idaho Supreme Court has deemed that it is in the best interests of children that child welfare cases are handled speedily and Idaho statutes and court rules have been promulgated to the achieve this. Failure to meet deadlines or compliance with orders may result in a default judgment and thus dragging out the process is not possible. Pro Se litigants, for example, are warned that delay tactics they often employ in civil cases will not achieve their aims and can lead to a default judgment. The end result of a default is the establishment that the State's allegations are true and the defendant agrees those allegations are true. That is, defendants cannot appeal in order to re-litigate the facts once they have defaulted. It is not known if a default judgment has been entered since we can't see the docket but that is the risk Lori takes with her non-compliance. I suspect she has an attorney litigating but again, we can't see the docket. Either way, the case can't drag out and decisions and orders will be rendered in the near future.

It seems pretty certain that unless she produces the children the State will be granted emergency custody. If that happens Lori faces Custodial Interference charges if she doesn't turn them over to the State.

By the way, if she reveals where JJ and Tylee are, the state where they are will take emergency custody of them and either begin a case against Lori or return the children to Idaho. There is no way that she avoids a court battle with a state over the kids. Whether she retains custody in the long term is another matter but there is zero chance that she retains custody in the short term.

Here’s a quick read about jurisdiction and child custody.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/189181.pdf
ETA: The UCCJEA spells out several scenarios in state courts obtaining jurisdiction, in order to issue enforceable permanent and/or temporary child custody (and other issues) orders. The first couple of pages are the easiest to read and understand how Idaho took jurisdiction over the children.
 
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She would then be considered a missing adult and would not be subject to any proceedings related to child welfare.

Since she has to be listed in NCIC that will follow her around until she is located and identified. Should she be encountered by law enforcement that would likely result in her being detained until they can confirm who she is, worse, if she is encountered in a vehicle with others they would also be detained until law enforcement can determine that it is her and that she is unharmed and is where she is of her own free will. We have actually had people that were listed as missing at age 17 show up after they became an adult and post on their thread here at WS saying they aren't missing. We tell them that they need to contact their local law enforcement because they will remain in NCIC until they are seen in person by law enforcement.

I know it’s OT, but were they runaways? And did they report back to WS with how things played out? I’d think they were runaways, from a bad home environment. But at least their families might get closure from an unthinkable situation. Hopefully, they found peace in getting away.
 
I hope we are getting closer to being able to talk about IP... I do see him mentioned in MSM articles quite a bit. yes, I do get a tiny bit obsessed with who he is etc. Since this is all about the children, did he have children with his earlier marriage? And does anyone know anything about Melaleuca? This is a medical wellness and supplements MLM company where IP appears to have worked for 8 years in Rexburg. Interestingly, Melaleuca is owned by the richest billionnaire in Idaho! But who is IP and were he and MBP a thing, when AC and MB dumped all the childrens belongings on the curb??
Drove by it on I-15 a few months ago on a fishing trip north of Rexburg... Melaleuca has a stunning office building just off the freeway - appears to be half castle - half tabernacle, with hundreds of parking spaces. Truly a trophy RE property. A very successful MLM, at least for the upper levels. Melaleuca marks three decades in business
 
A timeline of JJ's 2019 school attendance at LIFE Academy from the new article at the link:
  • Feb 5: JJ is absent from school
  • Feb 11: CV visits school, says Lori went crazy, mentions the existence of a protection order against her and annouces taking JJ out of school and out of state until he was safe
  • Around Feb 15: CV files for divorce from Lori
  • End of February: JJ returns to school, still no Lori
  • Mar 7: CV formally withdraws JJ from school, citing his stay with family in Texas
  • Late June: Lori contacts school, saying they're back in Gilbert, and enrols JJ in the summer program
  • Jul 11: CV is shot, the school learns about it a week later from Lori, who gives suicide as the cause
  • Aug 5: Start of a new school year for JJ
  • Later in August: KV and her husband call the school and ask about JJ's wellfare, since they hadn't seen him in a while
  • Sep 5: Lori withdraws JJ from school via email and phone
Arizona school details new information about Lori Vallow and son JJ
BBM. A couple of details/corrections - discrepancies between the video below and the article. According to the video, JJ returned to school on February 21. The video also says that Lori told the school about the CV's death about a week and a half after it happened. After learning the real cause of CV's death in July, the school filed a report with Arizona DCS as part of their due diligence.
 
Puzzle pieces. The paintball gun incident on Oct 9... anyone have a theory about this?

I'm looking at a satellite view of the neighborhood and I can't make sense of it. If someone was really trying to scare her where did they park that wouldn't be noticed? There is a small group of houses surrounded by a lot of open space so someone would either expose themselves to suspicion by being an unknown car in that neighborhood at night, or they were known in that neighborhood, or it was a neighbor who didn't need a get away car, or the man with the paintball gun had a looong hike ahead of him to get back to his car.

Could it have been a real gun and was an attempt on her life but the gun jammed or the shooter got cold feet?
For reference, here is an image from a nearby paintball facility. Looks pretty real to me.
Could it have been CD?
Could it have been some kid in the neighborhood just playing? i.e. a tangent, not related to anything?

What would be the motivation? If CD wanted to get away with murder as some people think wouldn't having an incident where TD calls 911 just before she dies raise suspicion?

Which brings me to another point, if someone calls 911 because they are being shot at and 10 days later they are dead, wouldn't that raise eyebrows for LE? It didn't seem to here.

And final thought; after staring at the satellite views, if it was all about the money, instead of all these complicated schemes I think they should have sold sheds in Idaho. My goodness, do they give out a prize for whoever has the most out-buildings?

All MOO
 
This is my interpretation of the text Chad sent about Tammy's death :

(quote in timeline 12th Nov 2019)

“Hi J****, yes, Tammy’s passing was such a shock. I woke up that morning and she had clearly been dead for a couple of hours, but she had such a peaceful look on her face. At her burial I felt her tell me she was happy and already busy helping our family on the other side of the veil. I felt she helped me reconnect with Lori so quickly, and it has actually helped my children move forward.”

The sequence of any narrative is important.

The first thing he wants her to know is his reaction "such a shock". Tammy's passing is mentioned only to get information out about him. If she was his priority as a loving husband it would have been about her - ie/ Tammy was so young/we've no idea why she died/they're not even trying to find out why (with some anger)/had no health problems/had been fine the day before/had not been ill/was unexpected (which includes her, healthwise), but he feels a pressing need to state what the recipient doesn't need to know about him and what can probably be taken for granted in sudden and unexpected deaths. Contrast it with his last sentence "and it has actually helped my children move forward" calls into question the authenticity of the shock that was so great it had to be stated first. He thinks the first line was enough to convince her and forgets to make himself feature anymore, by saying 'helped us'.

"I woke up that morning" - after referring to his shock, he again gives priority to himself and what he was doing - waking up - over Tammy's passing. It's important that she knows he was asleep when Tammy died. Why? So that he cannot have had anything to do with it. He could have written 'she died in her sleep'.

"and she had clearly been dead for a couple of hours, but" - Why is there a but? I think he's used it to soften the previous statement and place more emphasis on the next part.

"but she had such a peaceful look on her face". The two parts of the statement - being dead a couple of hours and having a peaceful look - are not dependent on each other. So the lack of reasoning and flow here makes the peaceful part stand out as a very sensitive issue to him. He needs to convince without showing reason, that Tammy had a peaceful passing. Why is it sensitive to him? Does his need to influence the reader show a need to steer away from the opposite conclusion? Telling this lady that he woke up a couple of hours after Tammy died also distances him from Tammy's passing. It's irrelevant information - unless it's sensitive to him. Why would it be sensitive to him?

My conclusion is that these issues are sensitive to Chad -

People knowing he was shocked
What he was doing while Tammy was dying
What caused Tammy to die - probably most sensitive of all because he hasn't mentioned it or mentioned not knowing
Time separated him from Tammy's death
Tammy had a peaceful death

MOO
 
I hope we are getting closer to being able to talk about IP... I do see him mentioned in MSM articles quite a bit. yes, I do get a tiny bit obsessed with who he is etc. Since this is all about the children, did he have children with his earlier marriage? And does anyone know anything about Melaleuca? This is a medical wellness and supplements MLM company where IP appears to have worked for 8 years in Rexburg. Interestingly, Melaleuca is owned by the richest billionnaire in Idaho! But who is IP and were he and MBP a thing, when AC and MB dumped all the childrens belongings on the curb??

Why is it that followers of the “cult” seem to drop off kids like a bad apple? Abandoning them for pursuit of their own goals? Or is this only LVD and her niece Melani? And the other members are extreme preppers/doomsday believers but keep their kids close to protect them in the event of a world meltdown? I wish we had some cult members here to speak to their beliefs. Don’t shoot me, but their side of the story may help find these children. I suppose they are bound to secrecy to protect their group, but even general ideas might help us.
Do any of you think LE has informants inside this group?
I don’t think the group encourages disposing of children as part of preparation for doomsday. I get the impression that the members are extreme in their belief that the end is near, a cataclysmic natural event and are prepared for it so that mankind can go on. Many preppers feel an enemy attack is worth preparing for and thereby overcoming the hostile forces. Saving the country.
I understanding preparing. Even to extreme. That’s what they believe. Ok. But abandoning children?
Anyone know? Or even venture a guess?
 
Forgive me for being lost but I do not understand the zombie references. I must have skipped over them somehow. Would someone please explain them? Thank you. ( did Chad start turning his religion into science fiction with zombies????). Thanks again for all the hard work and research (. Every morning I wake up frantically hoping to read arrest.)
Zombies feature in a recent YouTube video about this case that we aren't allowed to share here.
 
Puzzle pieces. The paintball gun incident on Oct 9... anyone have a theory about this?

I'm looking at a satellite view of the neighborhood and I can't make sense of it. If someone was really trying to scare her where did they park that wouldn't be noticed? There is a small group of houses surrounded by a lot of open space so someone would either expose themselves to suspicion by being an unknown car in that neighborhood at night, or they were known in that neighborhood, or it was a neighbor who didn't need a get away car, or the man with the paintball gun had a looong hike ahead of him to get back to his car.

Could it have been a real gun and was an attempt on her life but the gun jammed or the shooter got cold feet?
For reference, here is an image from a nearby paintball facility. Looks pretty real to me.
Could it have been CD?
Could it have been some kid in the neighborhood just playing? i.e. a tangent, not related to anything?

What would be the motivation? If CD wanted to get away with murder as some people think wouldn't having an incident where TD calls 911 just before she dies raise suspicion?

Which brings me to another point, if someone calls 911 because they are being shot at and 10 days later they are dead, wouldn't that raise eyebrows for LE? It didn't seem to here.

And final thought; after staring at the satellite views, if it was all about the money, instead of all these complicated schemes I think they should have sold sheds in Idaho. My goodness, do they give out a prize for whoever has the most out-buildings?

All MOO
I would be interesting to know if any "paintbal guns" were brought into and/or taken out of Lori's Rexburg storage unit around October 9.
 
Puzzle pieces. The paintball gun incident on Oct 9... anyone have a theory about this?

I'm looking at a satellite view of the neighborhood and I can't make sense of it. If someone was really trying to scare her where did they park that wouldn't be noticed? There is a small group of houses surrounded by a lot of open space so someone would either expose themselves to suspicion by being an unknown car in that neighborhood at night, or they were known in that neighborhood, or it was a neighbor who didn't need a get away car, or the man with the paintball gun had a looong hike ahead of him to get back to his car.

Could it have been a real gun and was an attempt on her life but the gun jammed or the shooter got cold feet?
For reference, here is an image from a nearby paintball facility. Looks pretty real to me.
Could it have been CD?
Could it have been some kid in the neighborhood just playing? i.e. a tangent, not related to anything?

What would be the motivation? If CD wanted to get away with murder as some people think wouldn't having an incident where TD calls 911 just before she dies raise suspicion?

Which brings me to another point, if someone calls 911 because they are being shot at and 10 days later they are dead, wouldn't that raise eyebrows for LE? It didn't seem to here.

And final thought; after staring at the satellite views, if it was all about the money, instead of all these complicated schemes I think they should have sold sheds in Idaho. My goodness, do they give out a prize for whoever has the most out-buildings?

All MOO

CD “foresaw” her death. Maybe to make his prophesy more believable, he arranged for an attempt to bolster his vision. The gun jammed or did it shoot out balls? Did TD know of his vision? I don’t think he ever stated how she was to die.
No, it’s connected. We just don’t know how right now. And her coughing and vomiting, being found on the floor, yet no inquiries made? No, it’s all tied together.
Lori’s ex who had a heart attack and was cremated. That’s a red flag. All these dead people in her life.
 
Or thrown out curbside when her niece moved out of her home. Hired PI saw that scene.
The implication was that the gun could have been real. I doubt it was brought back to Arizona and then discarded together with children's toys.
 
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