ID - Robert Manwill, 8, Boise, 24 July 2009 - #3

[Noway]

Cadaver search work is different, Rebmann explained, because dead bodies all smell alike. No scent articles are needed. Instead, the dogs learn to search for a characteristic cadaver odor and a special command that means "find dead people." Some use "Find the baby," others, the more palatable "Find Fred."

http://www.catherinedold.com/frescuedogs.htm

 

[Kimster]

I tend to think...or HOPE...that the mom had nothing to do with it, either. But don't let crying and red eyes fool you! That can mean, "oh my gosh, I'm going to jail!" just like KC Anthony or Susan Smith. Crying doesn't mean mourning...although I really hope in this case that mourning is what it DOES mean!

 

[CHICANA]

Robert has been in my thoughts since he disappeared ( I have an 8 & 9 yr old) but I haven't been following the details of this case closely. I just read the article about Robert being a hugger and the tears haven't stopped flowing.
These are probably dumb questions but I don't have the time to read the whole thread.
Is it possible that he fell into the canal ?
Was his father court ordered to to let Robert visit his mom unsupervised ?

 

[Noway]

Good point, SleuthyMama.

This case has more than its share of possible suspects: A mother charged with abuse of another child; the BF with the drug problem; sexual predators in all directions, etc.

I admire LE for keeping things close to the vest. I think it's a wise move.

 

[Idaho-native]

Did BF do this unsuccessful overdose so he could plead "insane" if he is charged? Males who commit suicide don't generally overdose. Their deaths tend to be more violent and from the info. we know of him he is a violent person, so if he really was serious about this I don't think he would have taken the easy way "out" with drugs.

Like so many of you, I believe he is the one who killed little Robert and I don't think Mom had anything to do with it. At first I did but when I saw her on TV and saw her sad eyes I changed my mind. The BF however, looked quite normal, like he was being filmed shopping or out for a walk in a park, if you know what I mean.

Idaho does not have temp insanity. I think the only thing he could do is prolong a trial. There was recently a guy sentenced who killed three people. He has real mental issues and "voices" told him to do it. Even with him the only thing that happened is the waited until he was sane enough to stand trial. This guy was way more messed up then the bf so I doubt he would be able to get into mental court. I think given his criminal background they will see right through him

 

[Idaho-native]

Cadaver search work is different, Rebmann explained, because dead bodies all smell alike. No scent articles are needed. Instead, the dogs learn to search for a characteristic cadaver odor and a special command that means "find dead people." Some use "Find the baby," others, the more palatable "Find Fred."

http://www.catherinedold.com/frescuedogs.htm

So would a dead body have that dead smell right away? I mean if he was put into that vehicle within a few hours of being killed would it give off his smell or a dead smell?

The other thing that I dont even want to think about it.....If the dead smell would take over right away then would it have been possible that Robert wasnt dead yet. Maybe the bf thought he had killed him when in fact at that point he was just severely injured. In the state of panic thinking he killed the child he went from there and the child later died. If he was buried in that yard alive then I would suspect there would have been some sort of dirt sucked into his lungs.

 

[Boisechick3770]

Just catching up on posts... I wanted to post something last night but just couldnt keep my eyes open any longer.
But first... Yes Intermountain Hospital is right next door to the ada county sheriff/jail on Barrister in Boise. They could have an address on Allumbaugh though because it is right on the corner of Barrister and Allumbaugh. They will not take you in for treatment UNLESS you have really good insurance...we know that the boyfriend doesn't because he doesnt even have a job,

OR there is a suicide attempt they will hold you for 48/72 hrs and during this time they will not let you have ANY contact with anyone, not even family, nor will they tell you if someone is there if you call. Very plausible that he was in there. Drug overdose? Hmmmmm didn't I say that I thought he looked like he was on dope?

In one of the earlier news releases when the mother and b/f were still going to them there was one in particular that showed a close up of the two and the B/f looks up at the camera and he looks like he's really spun out (high on meth). His pupils were the size of silver dollars and he looks scared. It's a pretty brief shot and I wish I had the time to go back thru them all and find it. There's no doubt in my mind he is.

But the point I wanted to make last night and I don't know that anyone else caught this, but when they first released the information about the body being found in the canal and had interviewed the guy from the irrigation company, and were talking about the grates and how many there were .... they originally said that the irrigation company only had the one body grate and it was UP when they body was found PAST that gate....it wasn't down in the water like it should have been....(which could have been because of the time 10days gases ect....

but...they(news) also said that "they" meaning either that guy from the irrigation or the company he works for...were told not to put that gate down. But they didnt say by who.

The next time I saw the clip that part was edited out, it was a ktvb clip and it was that blonde girl that was reporting...I found that odd.

IF anyone could find that original release it would be worth listening to that again. I wish I had the time but I have to get ready to go to work soon and know that I will get side tracked on this and end up being late for work.
Another thing I wanted to mention was... around here especially out where wallace lives, the home on 5mile... people out there usually don't lock their doors. This used to be a really low crime area and a lot of people that live here don't lock their doors. Even I sometimes don't lock my doors, stupid as it sounds.

Some areas of boise and surrounding areas, people have lived here for so long there's some kind of "false" sense of protection for lack of a better way to describe it. So very plausible that the boyfriend could have known this ...gone over to that guys house, and "barrowed" his vehicle while he was gone.

Maybe the keys hang on the wall inside the home and he figured with what he knew about the boy being missing...it could have been the boyfriend that "barrowed" it...maybe the police found a receipt for the Sand Hollowlandfill will they searched the apartment which led them to the 5 Mile home. Who's to say there still isnt evidence up there? In the garbage like bloody towels, murder weapon or the like?

It's all speculation, and I bet it's all centered around the bf losing his temper...and panicing..it all goes down hill from there. I also do think it's very plausible she did take the wrap for the infants cracked skull. Maybe she's all strung out too and thinks that P.O S. that she calls her boyfriend was worth losing not one not two, but 3 children for.
Bless all of her children...and the people who really care about them. Keep them safe and justice MUST be served this time.

Negligence is no excuse...even if she had no part of it she's guilty of letting it go on...being weak and negligent. Whether he threatened her or not she had places she could go like the womans shelter downtown,( they have security camera's and don't let males regardless of who they are within 2 blocks of that place)...or the police to call. She should have put her children first.
I bet it's centered around drugs. I'm tellin you. Maybe it's really starting to hit her now that she's off the dope!

 

[Idaho-native]

Respectfully, I'd like to disagree. I don't believe that it is so much insulting our intelligence as it is trying to make the case. I'm sure most of the LE agents working this case would love nothing more than to be able to scream from the rooftops who the number 1 suspects(s) is/are but they have to play the game to insure that once the perp goes to trial everything is on the up and up and he/she gets a fair trial. It's all in the name of doing the right thing and getting justice for Robert. At least that's how I choose to look at it.

Thank you for all your local input. That is invaluable to cases like these.

I do agree that they have to keep things tight lipped for the security of the case. I guess is what I am talking about is instead of saying they have no suspect at all wouldn't it be best to just say nothing. Saying nothing is less insulting and safe at the same time then thinking were gonna believe things that aren't true.

In the end I know its for the sake of the case. I do respect that. Like everyone else I am frustrated

 

[UnderDog]

I am still having trouble figuring out what the stolen Suburban has to do with all this. If it was stolen 2 days before Robert disappeared,wsa this premeditated? Just thinking out loud.

Was it really stolen at all? Another twist...

 

[ohiogirl]

Good question, Underdog.

 

[Noway]

I think by the time they searched the Wallis home they probably had a pretty good idea he was dead. That search took place after they were at the apartment and found some sort of blood. Im thinking that they have been playing stupid all along with what they do or dont know. Maybe if they play stupid the person who did this will get a hahaha cocky attitude thinking he has out smarted the police and then make some big mistake. That may be why they wont tell anyone anything. They dont want to have any slip ups of things they didnt intend to tell us so they have decided to tell us nothing.

I suppose that a hit by a cadaver dog on the SUV would have lead to the search of his home and property, as would a hit on Robert's scent by a search dog.

Thank you.

 

[SailorMoon]

There's something somewhere about the neighbor telling Wallis it was gone??? Am I dreaming?? And where was Wallis??? And he said he had 3 boys...where and how old are they?? Said he "knew the family". Knew them or "knew them".

 

[Noway]

So would a dead body have that dead smell right away? I mean if he was put into that vehicle within a few hours of being killed would it give off his smell or a dead smell?

The other thing that I dont even want to think about it.....If the dead smell would take over right away then would it have been possible that Robert wasnt dead yet. Maybe the bf thought he had killed him when in fact at that point he was just severely injured. In the state of panic thinking he killed the child he went from there and the child later died. If he was buried in that yard alive then I would suspect there would have been some sort of dirt sucked into his lungs.

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/body-farm

Here is a link with a lot of information.

... the rate at which a body decomposes varies widely. A thin person, especially a child, decomposes more slowly than an obese or older person. Much also depends on climate, geography, and season.


It is an interesting piece, however, graphic IMO especially when you are talking about a child, so I'll leave it to people to visit the site on their own rather than posting more.

ETA: While following other missing children/murder cases, I have read that the 'smell of death' occurs quickly (dog would smell).
~snipped~
A body may release gases within hours after death, even without visible signs of decay.
http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/?p=2137

 

[Noway]

~snipped~
I didn't know that someone took the keys from his house.

He said his black-and-gray Chevy Suburban was stolen July 22 after someone came into his house and took the keys. He found it Monday after returning from a weekend away and called the Ada County Sheriff's Department.

When officials investigated, he told them of his connection to the Ehrlick family.

"I mentioned that I know these guys. I've met the little boy," Wallis said. Wallis said he last saw Robert at David Ehrlick's home a few months ago.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/localnews/v-print/story/852598.html

 

[UnderDog]

How would Wallis know someone took the keys? I mean, he could surmise as much, but it's just odd the way the "story" goes...

 

[Boisechick3770]

One more thing. People can die from meth overdoses. It's not real common but it does happen. On the coroners investigation site on the state website there is a case that describes a meth overdose. Police were called to a home and found a man unconscience and unresponsive. After trying to revive him at the hospital and further examination they found what appeared to be needle holes in the backs of his legs/knees. People who shoot dope can have heart attacks...and die. He probably tried this...or needed to get rid of his dope and decided to do it all before he got caught with it...
Maybe he got what they call..."cotton fever" which is when a fiber from either a cigarette filter or piece of a q-tip gets into the needle and when they shoot it into their veins it makes them very very sick. Like they have a really bad flu or something. It's hard to say. It's really disgusting and people who shoot methamphetamines seem to go NUTZO....and get enraged and the drop of a hat.

 

[Boisechick3770]

Here is the link to the ada county's coroner Investigations website. Not that there will be any Information about little Robert on there...but it does give some information about their types of investigations and the Meth Overdose I was speaking of. http://www.adaweb.net/Coroner.aspx/CoronerInvestigations/2009Archive/February2009.aspx

I gotta get in the shower and get to work....told ya i'd get sidetracked!!!
God bless E1 I will check in later from work.

 

[Liz]

How would Wallis know someone took the keys? I mean, he could surmise as much, but it's just odd the way the "story" goes...

My 'guess' would be that Wallis' keys were in his Suburban when it was found.

We're only getting bits and pieces of the details surrounding this 'stolen vehicle', which is making us assume things. I wish those darn reporters would do a better job!

I'd love to know if there was any phone contact between Wallis and Ehrlick Jr around the 22nd (or afterwards), when the Suburban was allegedly stolen; but I don't expect to get an answer.

 

[Noway]

How would Wallis know someone took the keys? I mean, he could surmise as much, but it's just odd the way the "story" goes...

I suppose that is what happened.

He knew he left the keys in the house, and when he found the truck with the keys in it (if that is the case), he surmised that someone came into his house and got the keys and took the truck.

Was the entire family gone over the weekend? Did he really leave his house unlocked while out of town? I live in a small town and know lots of people who leave doors unlocked on day-to-day basis, but don't know any who wouldn't lock it if going out of town.

 

[impatientredhead]

So would a dead body have that dead smell right away? I mean if he was put into that vehicle within a few hours of being killed would it give off his smell or a dead smell?

The other thing that I dont even want to think about it.....If the dead smell would take over right away then would it have been possible that Robert wasnt dead yet. Maybe the bf thought he had killed him when in fact at that point he was just severely injured. In the state of panic thinking he killed the child he went from there and the child later died. If he was buried in that yard alive then I would suspect there would have been some sort of dirt sucked into his lungs.

A cadaver dog can pinpoint a location where a body that was dead for only 1-2 hours and located approximately 10 minutes. That is the shortest study I have found, and have not found one that shows they cannot do it with exposure to shorter times.

The study is out on the web and has been posted here several times, but they took sheets from the hospitals where the person had died and been in contact with the sheets in a deceased state for approximately ninety minutes. They then took pieces of those sheets and located them in a search area for 10 minutes and removed them. The dogs hit those with spots with 99% accuracy. They retested them again with the same clothes 6 months later and they still had 97% accuracy in hits. They maybe able to do it with exposure to a corpse of much less than 90 minutes decomp time.

So yes if the body had been in that vehicle only for a short drive the dogs would hit. The problem there is that the reports say they indicated that Robert was in the vehicle, they can't say that from a cadaver dog hit. That only says that a dead body was in the vehicle from a cadaver dog hit.

That would indicate to me that the dogs that gave that hit were either tracking dogs/live scent OR that the reports are wrong and they had a cadaver dog hit and based on the connection to the family searched the property but do not have confirmation that Robert was in the vehicle. Technicality I know.