ID ID - Wallace (Jacob's Gulch), WhtMale 679UMID, 60, Found On Hiking Trail, Jun'02

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I received a reply from Clyde Knight:

As indicated in our many past emails to each other, while I appreciate your attention to these cases I do not have the authority to divulge the status of any MP/UP case to anyone who has not already been briefed by the investigating detective. If you have been debriefed please refer back to that detective for any further information. The cases that you refer to are ongoing active cases being investigated by law enforcement and the appropriate medical examiner's office. Thank you for your time
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I replied back as follows:

<< As indicated in our many past emails to each other ...>

For the record, I have three previous communications from you, none of which pertained to your authority (or lack thereof) to divulge MP/UP status.

One was to refer me to the NCMEC regarding duplicate MP casefiles, and the other two were to explain why you wouldn't correct obvious errors in an MP casefile.
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Suggestion to fellow sleuthers:

When calling in possibles, If Clyde Knight is the listed contact, I suggest that you look for an alternative contact. Despite the patronizing "While I appreciate your attention to these cases" verbage, he doesn't appear to have much regard for our communications.
 
I took a fresh look at this thread. the Namus profile for the UID was last modified October 12, 2012, just 9 or 10 days after Carl's last email with Clyde.

The contact person is now Lonnie Duce at the Shoshone Cnty Coroners Ofc. Carl, you might want to check in with Lonnie and see if you get a better reception.
 
NamUs has added a postmortem photo for this UID. After looking at the postmortem photo, I don't really think he is Raymond Shore and sort of doubt he is James Nigra (but that is just IMO, I could be wrong). There is something about his general "look" that doesn't really come through on the sketch (IMO).
 
Ambercat said:
NamUs has added a postmortem photo for this UID. After looking at the postmortem photo, I don't really think he is Raymond Shore and sort of doubt he is James Nigra (but that is just IMO, I could be wrong). There is something about his general "look" that doesn't really come through on the sketch (IMO).
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Thanks for the info on the added photo to NamUS. Before I posted my potential MP here I had more of the same egotistical nonsense from everyone involved in this case so I posted and put the file on "hold" hoping to find someone interested in actually identifying this man as opposed to just building a DNA data base. The female "detective" who originally worked the case told me in an email she was "....waiting for an old indian chief to come down from the mountain to have a look at the fingerprints 'cause he was good at such things"... Having had similar convoluted interactions with both agencies, I was not at all surprised. Maybe there is a real investigator onboard now?

Just an observation: The UID's glasses were not on him when found. They were not on him when he received a bullet either because they are intact. Why would he remove his glasses to shoot himself?

I wonder if he was left handed? It seems odd that a right handed person would reach across his face to deliver the kind of wound seen in the photo, when generally speaking on handgun suicides, it is to the mouth or temple on the dominant hand side. I find this very odd.

I also find it odd he is carrying a duffle bag if his intent was to walk to a secluded area for the purpose of comitting suicide. He could have left these items at any point of arrival to the area.

Quenching ones thirst before death? (can drink) Again...odd.

Did he meet someone there? Was that the purpose for the hike, the drink and a bag empty of anything valuable? Was it really suicide?
 
I am a local to this case, and kind of vaguely remember hearing of this man being found, but never knew he wasn't identified. Jacob's Gulch is in Kellogg, ID, not Wallace. The walking trail goes to the high school and is probably used mostly by students. It is also very close to the freeway and the Greyhound bus stop. If someone got off the bus and wanted the easiest place to walk into the woods, that would be likely where they would end up.
 
From the research I have done, if this UID is James Nigra I am having a hard time accepting suicide due to discovered circumstances. If it is Mr. Shore I believe it was due to the original report of him being suicidal.

I am backing off my work load so I don'[t have time for another project but it would be interesting to find the profession of Raymond Shore and if he had contacts in Vancouver (work or family). He seems like another reasonable possibility. Anyone?
 
Does anyone think this person is strong enough to be a match? I was looking for possibles in a different case and remembered seeing this man who had both upper/lower dentures and eyeglasses. His name is Paul Joseph Knockel, missing from Dubuque, Iowa since 1990. Here is his link:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/237dmia.html

Paul: 5ft 10in 265 lbs (in 1990)
Upper and lower dentures
Eyeglasses
Brown Eyes, Brown Hair (in 1990) shade of brown hair not specified brown-blonde? dark?
DNA not available
Fingerprints not on file
From his Doe page: "Generally found work doing menial tasks....needed help of family to manage finances and other affairs, friendly... but very quiet, no drug or alcohol problems..."

UID: 5ft 10 in (2002) 185 lbs
upper/lower dentures
eyeglasses
Brown eyes, Gray hair with reddish highlights
$7.00 in pocket

In 2002 , Paul would be slightly older than of the UID estimated age of 60.
Maybe Paul got confused driving to Thanksgiving dinner, got lost, it didn't occur to him to ask for help, he ended up in Idaho, and made a living there for years?
 
Just thinking out loud here... Webrocket suggested contacting individual eye doctors but I wonder if the optometry/eye doctor medical associations could be contacted in those 3 states regarding the prescription lenses/prescription in hopes that an eye doctor may recall writing it? Maybe they could post the prescription on their web page? Just a thought....
 
That's an interesting thought. I know something similar has sometimes been done for unusual dentistry -- they used to put the charts or x-rays in the dental association professional publication.
 
associations. The earliest I will be able to work on it will be June 9th , though.
 
Since investigators traced the gun sale to Texas, maybe we should be looking at Texas men who were reported missing that fit the parameters. I eliminated a missing man from AZ because the time line didn't fit at all, but that MP had similar style of frames,although it is impossible to know his prescription. I have not had much luck pursuing the eye doctor associations in ID, OR, or WA. Basically you have to be a member of the medical association to post. BTW, Texas only uses NCIC numbers for possible matches. They do not use NAMUS MP/UID numbers when trying to match UIDs.
 
rainwater said:
Does anyone think this person is strong enough to be a match? I was looking for possibles in a different case and remembered seeing this man who had both upper/lower dentures and eyeglasses. His name is Paul Joseph Knockel, missing from Dubuque, Iowa since 1990.
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I just don't believe that a man, though described as possibly somewhat mentally challenged still capable of driving a car and living on his own, would get lost on a route he has probably driven a thousand times and never figure out how to contact his family, and just settle where he ended up, or, at the very worst, not go to a police-station and ask them to contact his family, if he was as close to them as they say. Plus, the Doe profile makes note of multiple scars and fractures in his legs, something not mentioned in NamUs.
 
For a while, I though that John Wesley Davis might be a possibility for a few reasons. The primary thing that got my attention was on the Leon County (FL) Sheriff's Office missing person webpage for Mr. Davis --

According to family members, Davis spent a great deal of time in Montana and Idaho as a young man.
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http://www.leoncountyso.com/missing-persons/john-wesley-davis

As I looked at Mr. Davis more closely, I realized that his height (71") was very close the the unidentified Idaho man's (70") and that it was definitely possible for a man who weighted about 165 lbs at 32 years old to gain 20 lbs by the time he is 54 in 2002 (185 lbs). The FDLE, Charley Project, and Doe Network list Mr. Davis' hair as brown; Leon County says that he has blond hair. The only photo that I have seen on him is in black and white, so I can't tell if it has a reddish tone. I do think that the man from Idaho could have looked like Mr. Davis when he was younger. Time and eye color don't match, though.

JDavis1.jpg
http://doenetwork.org/cases/251dmfl.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/davis_john.html
http://pas.fdle.state.fl.us/pas/person/viewMissingPerson-185603.a

I tried to add John Wesley Davis to NamUs awhile back, thinking that if DNA could be located for Mr. Davis, a match might be generated with NamUs UP# 5051 without actually having to suggest it (I'm concerned that some coroner's offices are starting to view me as a pain in the rear end because I have suggested a number of possibilities yet not actually been able to identify anyone). My NamUs entry for John Wesley Davis was deleted as --
found to be either unverifiable or already exists in the NamUs Missing Persons System
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I'm not exactly sure if that means that he already has a profile that is still unpublished, no longer missing, or something else.
 
So lets think outside the box for a bit, and take a trip to Florida...1977.

A gentleman by the name of Allan Kaplan of Palm Beach County, Florida suddenly vanished into thin air. He was a person of interest in a case I was following (The 1978 Columbia Co. FL John Doe 'Forrest'). He was a successful business owner who took good care of himself and apparently was someone with a clean record and a good reputation. Now why would someone suddenly disappear like that unless...UNLESS Kaplan got into some trouble and needed to leave.

Based on the information provided by the Shoshone Sheriffs Office in Idaho, this John Doe seems to have been well taken care of and had pricey items in his possessions which included specialty glasses from the Pacific Northwest. The description of this John Doe (including the autopsy photo) closely resembles Allan Kaplan albeit the appendectomy scar and the beard. Lets think...could Kaplan ran off to the NW, assumed an identity and started fresh with no conscious? And if so, could the beard have been a disguise? And if Kaplan was to have committed suicide, could it have been because he was dealing with many demons and decided to remove himself from those thoughts by driving to Wallace (which is a beautiful little town, somewhere he thought he could be in peace as he stared in the face of death) to commit suicide?

I can come up with a quick side by side composite to share, and if you guys think this is a plausible match, I can get ahold of some friends with the Palm Beach Sheriffs Office and submit this find. I am sure that this could have been overlooked considering the geographical boundaries; but keep in mind, I am thinking outside the box. Thoughts?

LINK TO ALLAN T. KAPLAN'S PROFILE ON NAMUS: https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/17678/0/

John Doe Allan Kaplan.jpg
 
Hmmm. Will have to think about this one.
 
So I just was in Wallace Idaho. I swung by the Shoshone County sheriffs office asking about Jacobs Gulch. I was informed that the Gulch is located in Kellogg, Idaho. So that I could confirm this information, I asked a few locals about it as well. They confirmed that the location was in Kellogg. So I'm sitting in a gas station right now in Kellogg. I checked out the location of Jacobs Gulch. Apparently it is near a high school in Kellogg. And the walking trail is within proximity of the school. Now how far does the Gulch extend? I don't necessarily have time to stop in and ask questions, as I'm heading back to Portland from Montana. Can anybody offer any insight?

And no, I did not submit my tip yet. I want to make sure that I am positive before I do so.
 
And for those wondering, this location is located at exit 49 Idaho. The Bunker Avenue/Silver Mountain resort exit. If you are going eastbound you turn left. Westbound, you go right.
 
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