If JonBenet's death was an accident...

[BBB167893]

Ok, so can I assume you subscribe to either the bedwetting (shoved into an object) or the molestation by JR (hit accidentally/purposely by the flashlight) theory?

Regardless, the head bash happened either in her room or in her bathroom on the second floor.

Now we have an unconscious JBR and either one (PR) or both parents wishing to cover for themselves and what occurred.

So, then, why do they carry her to the basement?

Nice, out of the way place.

When did the 'ransom' idea come to them?

First hour or so, would be my guess.

So, now she is in the basement, unconscious.

She is placed on her back, her clothing removed and the paintbrush shoved in hard enough to cause bleeding. Was the paintbrush used because it was handy or was this the reason for her being placed in that area (the paintbrush was near)?

Handy, I'd say.

If it was done to cover the prior sexual assault then the head bash must have been inflicted with the flashlight by PR following finding JR molesting her, otherwise, why do it at all?

Well, I sort of agree with that idea.

How would PR know she had been molested by JR prior to that night? Doesn't seem right that she was head bashed before he confessed to his previous behaviour?

My idea is that JB let it slip.

Then she was wiped, with what?
Then her clothing was replaced. She was rolled onto her stomach -- why?

Make it easier to strangle her. Easier at least in the sense that they wouldn't have to look her in the face.

Then the cord was wrapped around her neck and pulled tight till she died. It was then tied off with a knot and the paintbrush was broken at both ends

.

Sounds right.

The brush end was put back in the tote and the other end (with blood on it?) was put where??

God knows.

The long piece of the cord was wrapped around the (paintbrush) stick, why? Then her arms were tied with 15" of cord between them, why?

Lack of experience.

Then one of the parents moved the suitcase under the window and opened it.

I thought it was FW who put it under. And whether or not they opened it is debatable.

They then went upstairs, took the batteries out of the flashlight and wiped them, replaced them and wiped the flashlight outside. What did they wipe it with? Why did they leave it on the bench rather than replace it in the drawer? It was the murder weapon, wouldn't that look suspicious?

What's suspicious about a home flashlight?

They then wrote the RN. Why was it so long?

Patsy's agitated mental state and theatrical nature.

Why did it threaten to behead her and deny her remains for burial, when she was downstairs strangled?

To sound impressive.

Why was the RN left on the stairs rather than on her bed?

That's EXACTLY the point! It just HAPPENED to be left in a spot where Patsy was KNOWN to leave things out of habit. HMM!

Why did they call 911 at 6am rather than earlier or later? Why didn't they wait till after 10am to call the cops, thus obeying their own instructions?

Not obeying their own instructions presents a reason for JB to be dead, doesn't it?

Why did JR go to the basement and find JBR then pick her up and carry her upstairs and ruin all their good work in staging the crime as a kidnapping gone wrong?

You'll have to forgive me, but the notion that doing so would "ruin their good work" has never held any truck with me.

Please RDI, kindly help me to understand your theory.

Anything I can do to help, I will do.

 

[BBB167893]

Well it depends on which RDI theory you subscribe to. I've heard it said here that the parents used the paintbrush to injure her to COVER UP prior sexual abuse, and in fact this was the sole intention of the murder as well. Now you are saying that they were trying to hide the sexual assault that occurred that night by changing panties. If as you say, and intruder wouldn't need to hide this, then I expect the parents made a mistake, as they were trying to make it look like an intruder, but were doing the exact opposite of what an intruder would do?? This isn't making any sense at all.

I try to stay out of arguments about theories that are not mine, but just to give a slight detour, it does make sense. In fact, I think you've summed it up rather well.

They were trying to make it look like an intruder, but their inexperience betrayed them (among other things).

 

[BBB167893]

Hmm, well an equal number of similarly qualified experts probably disagree.

Not that I'm aware of, Murri. Far as I know, it's not even close. The VAST majority agree with Lee, Spitz and Wright. 80-20 would probably be low-balling it.

 

[BBB167893]

Just a side note: I hope we didn't drive WANM away. I try not to beat up on people (unless they have it coming). Indeed, the way I see it is, most people who are IDI probably don't know very much about the case. (As opposed to those few who just don't care.)

 

[DeeDee249]

Re the glitter- it's been a while since I looked there, but does ACR have a page that mentions glitter being found on the body? Because I seem to remember seeing that somewhere in evidence lists or a list of things found on the body, along with green paint flecks and green artificial needles. I think I recall seeing there was glitter too.

 

[Taylormahone]

Let's say that JonBenet was killed over toilet rage. She wakes up, wet, and goes and tells Patsy. Patsy, flustered from the day hits her over the head. Why then, would she decide to wrap a garrote over the child's neck, the SEXUALLY ASSAULT her, then write a ransom note. It doesn't add up. Wouldn't it be easier to put her in the bathtub and say that she slipped?
It seems a lot likelier that somebody broke into the house with intent to kidnap JonBenet, or at least act out his dream fantasy of attempting to kidnap. He had HOURS to roam around the house. The Ramseys were gone for 4-5 hours. He wrote a long note, simply because he had time. He was young too. He hides when the family came home. Give him a few hours and he has her in the basement. He tries to put her in the suitcase, there is evidence that she was in the suitcase at some time. He tries to fit her through the basement grate. Maybe she doesn't fit, maybe she screams and he drops her, perhaps causing the head injury. And then, he finishes her off, with the garrote. Why? Because he is mentally unstable. He doesn't think like we do. :twocents:

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

 

[freshwater]

And this mentally unstable young person didn't leave a fingerprint on the ransom note?

I don't necessarily think Patsy did the garroting and the sexual assault.

And as for mental instability, a lot of us here think that Patsy suffered from a bit of that, so this might explain why she didn't handle things in a way that would make sense to us.

 

[BBB167893]

Top o' the mornin' to ya, Taylormahone! And welcome to the inferno!

 

[BBB167893]

And this mentally unstable young person didn't leave a fingerprint on the ransom note?

I don't necessarily think Patsy did the garroting and the sexual assault.

And as for mental instability, a lot of us here think that Patsy suffered from a bit of that, so this might explain why she didn't handle things in a way that would make sense to us.

Yeah, I was going to say, freshwater: I could spend the better part of a day going over that post (not like I haven't already!)

 

[UKGuy]

Let's say that JonBenet was killed over toilet rage. She wakes up, wet, and goes and tells Patsy. Patsy, flustered from the day hits her over the head. Why then, would she decide to wrap a garrote over the child's neck, the SEXUALLY ASSAULT her, then write a ransom note. It doesn't add up. Wouldn't it be easier to put her in the bathtub and say that she slipped?
It seems a lot likelier that somebody broke into the house with intent to kidnap JonBenet, or at least act out his dream fantasy of attempting to kidnap. He had HOURS to roam around the house. The Ramseys were gone for 4-5 hours. He wrote a long note, simply because he had time. He was young too. He hides when the family came home. Give him a few hours and he has her in the basement. He tries to put her in the suitcase, there is evidence that she was in the suitcase at some time. He tries to fit her through the basement grate. Maybe she doesn't fit, maybe she screams and he drops her, perhaps causing the head injury. And then, he finishes her off, with the garrote. Why? Because he is mentally unstable. He doesn't think like we do. :twocents:

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

Taylormahone
Interesting theory. Do you have any evidence demonstrating that there was an intruder?

After strangling JonBenet, why would this intruder redress JonBenet in brand new size-12 bloomingdale underwear, considerate or deranged?

Sometimes in homicide cases the obvious suspect is the guilty one. In this case it is not Patsy. With JonBenet being sexually assaulted, and her pageant lifestyle thrust upon her, you do not need to be a brain surgeon, to work out what happened.

What I find curious is those that are familiar with the case know that there was a coverup and an organised conspiracy to assist JonBenet's killer avoid arrest and a court room appearance. Yet those involved intimately in this conspiracy must know by now that JonBenet was being sexually abused, and that they helped cover it all up!


.

 

[DeeDee249]

How would an intruder know where the new package of panties was in the basement? They were WRAPPED as a gift. Let's not leave out the pineapple in your IDI theory. NO intruder stops in the middle of a kidnapping/sexual assault to feed the victim pineapple. The autopsy disclosed the pineapple. We know she ate it about 2 hours before she died. NOTHING about this case suggests an intruder. This was someone who had NO fear of being found in the house.
There was prior abuse, which I have never seen an IDI explain.

Not a single print was ever found that belonged to an intruder.

 

[dodie20]

Beck I agree with you 100%!! But they were not that well scripted UK Guy, and I don't mean this disrespectfully to your post, as I agree with you.. They spent a LOT of time defending themselves, but really showed NO rightous anger! That was the caveat to me. I would have been so angry at this stranger, I would have been spitting nails. Maybe not down the road, years later, but if anyone took, harmed or killed my child, I would have damned them to hell and everyone that heard me talk would know it! It would have taken me a LONG time to get over my anger.

I'd be so distraught and empty and hopeless I'm just not sure how much room I'd have for anger. and then maybe I'd be pizzed at the world, IDK. But one thing I am sure of... I wouldn't be talking about forgiveness. I might talk about her being in a better place, to comfort myself, but mainly I'd dwell on the horror of her last minutes on earth. I'd never get over it, never be able to move on and I'd feel like it was my fault, no matter what happened. Til the day I died, I'd blame myself for not protecting her. And I think I'm pretty normal, (I hope, lol). Sometimes when you see parents of murdered children, they don't seem angry...but their souls are broken. They want justice but not revenge. I think that's how I'd be. Whereas I'd probably detach myself from a stranger, I'd feel a whole lot more anger towards a relative. MOO.

 

[dodie20]

Let's say that JonBenet was killed over toilet rage. She wakes up, wet, and goes and tells Patsy. Patsy, flustered from the day hits her over the head. Why then, would she decide to wrap a garrote over the child's neck, the SEXUALLY ASSAULT her, then write a ransom note. It doesn't add up. Wouldn't it be easier to put her in the bathtub and say that she slipped?
It seems a lot likelier that somebody broke into the house with intent to kidnap JonBenet, or at least act out his dream fantasy of attempting to kidnap. He had HOURS to roam around the house. The Ramseys were gone for 4-5 hours. He wrote a long note, simply because he had time. He was young too. He hides when the family came home. Give him a few hours and he has her in the basement. He tries to put her in the suitcase, there is evidence that she was in the suitcase at some time. He tries to fit her through the basement grate. Maybe she doesn't fit, maybe she screams and he drops her, perhaps causing the head injury. And then, he finishes her off, with the garrote. Why? Because he is mentally unstable. He doesn't think like we do. :twocents:

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

maybe all the staging was to cover up prior abuse? A slip in a bathtub wouldn't do the trick. just a possibility and my opinion.

 

[Agatha_C]

Let's say that JonBenet was killed over toilet rage. She wakes up, wet, and goes and tells Patsy. Patsy, flustered from the day hits her over the head. Why then, would she decide to wrap a garrote over the child's neck, the SEXUALLY ASSAULT her, then write a ransom note. It doesn't add up. Wouldn't it be easier to put her in the bathtub and say that she slipped?
It seems a lot likelier that somebody broke into the house with intent to kidnap JonBenet, or at least act out his dream fantasy of attempting to kidnap. He had HOURS to roam around the house. The Ramseys were gone for 4-5 hours. He wrote a long note, simply because he had time. He was young too. He hides when the family came home. Give him a few hours and he has her in the basement. He tries to put her in the suitcase, there is evidence that she was in the suitcase at some time. He tries to fit her through the basement grate. Maybe she doesn't fit, maybe she screams and he drops her, perhaps causing the head injury. And then, he finishes her off, with the garrote. Why? Because he is mentally unstable. He doesn't think like we do. :twocents:

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

(My Bold)

How does this young intruder know that he has plenty of time to write a practice ransom note as well as the note left behind?

Do you have a link to a credible source, that states she was ever placed in the suitcase? And how did he get Jonbenet into the case without her kicking, scratching, biting, crying and or screaming? I dont believe that she would have fit.

If she was in the case and he dropped her, how could MS, across the street hear her scream from inside the suitcase?

No way was her head busted inside of the suitcase. I would think the suitcase would have offered her a certain amount of protection. Not that she wouldnt have been injured, but I dont think it would have been as serious as her injuries were. I could be wrong.

Help me understand why this intruder would have felt comfortable enough to stay and garotte her after she screamed and her parents were upstairs, where they had phones and maybe weapons and should have heard the scream?

I respect your right to have an opinion I just need help in understanding it... TIA

 

[DeeDee249]

If JB had been in the suitcase at all (which I doubt) there would have been some forensic evidence of it (i.e. a hair, body fluids, fibers from her clothes). There was NONE. Her head bash was the result of exactly what the coroner said it was- blunt force trauma (i.e.- something hitting HER, not vice-versa).
It amazes me to read the strangest concoctions all done in the name of being unable to utter the simple possibility that this was committed by someone who had no need of breaking in or out of that house.
In addition to no one being able to climb UP a wall and that the suitcase was allegedly needed to climb up the wall (thanks, LS, for this "urban legend") - how would they climb up the wall holding the very suitcase (containing JB ) that they used to stand up on? Doesn't quite "fit", does it. Right.
Nobody climbed in or (especially) out of that (previously broken) window. That day or any other day.