If JonBenet's death was an accident...

[SunnieRN]

So we know that JB at some of it because it was in her system. You are saying that it was a harmless snack that Patsy gave her, but they had to exclude it from their story to simplify it. So what exactly would saliva prove?

Its one thing to say your son is asleep to keep him out of it, but to lie about your events that night concerning your daughter is crazy (looking from the point of view that they are innocent).

That is precisely the point I have been trying to make by arguing the fact that the R's did LIE! There was NO reason for them to lie, if their chain of events had been true! About anything, including Burke actually being awake. I know my parents told me and maybe some of yours did also, 'don't tell a lie, or you will have to keep on lying to cover up your first lie.'

http://www.1songlyrics.com/f/fireflight/liar.html

The first few verses of this song, describe the R's to a tee!

 

[Tadpole12]

Whoa, Heavy:banghead:. Love the 'screamer' effect.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr__AUjHs6A[/ame]

 

[SunnieRN]

When I heard that one day, the hair on the back of my neck stood up! A friend played it due to a breakup, I of course, thought of the R's. lol :floorlaugh:

 

[SunnieRN]

Sorry, on my iPad, so have to post up here. Chronic molestation would show older injuries that were in a different stage of healing, vs a more 'recent' trauma.

So she eats it, passes out after a little while, then she's taken downstairs...there still has to be around 2 hours of defiling in order for the pineapple to digest. Can 2 hours be long enough to give the impression of chronic molestation? Perhaps, I don't know, but it is still TWO HOURS. You'd certainly want to be sure nobody else is noticing her missing.

Multiple Intruder Options...

- Yeah I dunno, the idea that there's more than one person sneaking around the house seems odd. I mean, we haven't even positively established ONE intruder was in the house without him inviting a buddy to come with him. The only way I can think there were two intruders is if they were the Laurel & Hardy of murderers....one smart guy and one bumbling partner.

 

[BBB167893]

Every time I see a post like this, it reminds me how much damage people like John Douglas and Lou Smit have done to this case,

Cynic, you took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[BBB167893]

Oh, boy...I've been WAITING for a chance like this!

This is so funny. What we are discussing is RDIs view that the R's together or in collusion, killed and staged their daughter's murder on the one hand. Then on the other hand RDI are saying that JR knew where she was or even that he moved her from somewhere else (in the house) earlier in the day, so she would be found. I'm not sure where she was moved from they haven't worked that out yet. Then they are saying that given an opportunity, (asked to search by LA) he went straight to where he already knew she was, without even pretending to search. But instead of calling for the Cops so they could see all his hard work in staging and laying out the body so it looked like someone else had done it, he picked her up and carried her upstairs. He then gave LA 'a look' that convinced her he was guilty (rather than looking like the innocent grieving father he was pretending to be). Following this, when interviewed, he described how he had found her, wrapped in the blanket and in doing so, apparently implicated himself, because as RDI ask themselves who else but a parent would do this.

All the funnier, because you don't even know this doesn't make any sense at all.

You're right: I DON'T know that it doesn't make sense, because as I see it, it makes sense just fine. These are the kinds of mistakes I would expect an amateur to make.

 

[BBB167893]

On the assumption John knew JBR was deceased, why would he bring her upstairs for her mother (and the rest of the Ramsey troop) to see? I would think most men would want to protect their wives from such a ghastly image.

It's funny you mention that, Kari, because, to hear him tell it in DOI, that's exactly why he covered her up in the living room.

 

[DeeDee249]

That is precisely the point I have been trying to make by arguing the fact that the R's did LIE! There was NO reason for them to lie, if their chain of events had been true! About anything, including Burke actually being awake. I know my parents told me and maybe some of yours did also, 'don't tell a lie, or you will have to keep on lying to cover up your first lie.'

http://www.1songlyrics.com/f/fireflight/liar.html

The first few verses of this song, describe the R's to a tee!

Sunnie, This showed up in your post as MY quote, but it was not my quote originally. I believe it was qtc.

 

[SunnieRN]

Sunnie, This showed up in your post as MY quote, but it was not my quote originally. I believe it was qtc.

Hi DeeDee, I notice the quotes have been messed up for a bit. Above, my quote is in qtc's name. Hope you are doing well and sorry for the mixup.

Agatha, how did you fix yours?

 

[DeeDee249]

Hi DeeDee, I notice the quotes have been messed up for a bit. Above, my quote is in qtc's name. Hope you are doing well and sorry for the mixup.

Agatha, how did you fix yours?

I wonder why that happens. No problem, though.

 

[Peepers]

Personally, I think Burke and JBR got up after parents were asleep and thats probably when she ate the pineapple. Maybe Patsy didnt notice it so she didnt really know that JBR ate the pineapple and wasnt really lying about the pineapple. PR is so adamant about the pineapple, I think there are so many lies in the cover up, she liked the fact that there was some truths she could stand with and in her mind she wasnt lying, she did not give JBR the pineapple.

 

[Agatha_C]

Hi DeeDee, I notice the quotes have been messed up for a bit. Above, my quote is in qtc's name. Hope you are doing well and sorry for the mixup.

Agatha, how did you fix yours?

Sunnie, when you quote someone, that is quoting someone (LOL) you have to look at the top before you send and if two HATs are quoted (the original quoter and the one you're quoting) Yikes... You have to remove the original quoter. Did that make sense?

 

[SunnieRN]

Sunnie, when you quote someone, that is quoting someone (LOL) you have to look at the top before you send and if two HATs are quoted (the original quoter and the one you're quoting) Yikes... You have to remove the original quoter. Did that make sense?

Made perfect sense my friend! Now to see if it works.:crazy:

 

[DeeDee249]

Personally, I think Burke and JBR got up after parents were asleep and thats probably when she ate the pineapple. Maybe Patsy didnt notice it so she didnt really know that JBR ate the pineapple and wasnt really lying about the pineapple. PR is so adamant about the pineapple, I think there are so many lies in the cover up, she liked the fact that there was some truths she could stand with and in her mind she wasnt lying, she did not give JBR the pineapple.

But then why lie about owning the BOWL? That was deliberate. The bowl matched other pieces of her china, as well as being seen on her table in a photo taken at the party on Dec. 23rd. Patsy tried to infer that she didn't recognize the bowl.
Why lie about owning a box of tissues? Why would anyone believe a kidnapper/intruder would bring their own box of tissues into the home when they didn't even bring a note and had to use paper and pen from the kitchen. (How conveeeeenient).
It is those lies that convince me Patsy knew about the pineapple snack and she was trying to distance herself from it. She HAD to lie about it, or else she had to admit JB was awake at some point that night.

 

[KariKae]

A couple other things that bothered me about the pineapple.

1) IIRC, it was fresh cut pineapple. Fresh pineapple is difficult for me to cut. I cannot see Burke or JBR cutting fresh pineapple.

2) I can't imagine JBR waking up in a dark house and going downstairs to fix herself a snack. Wasn't her normal protocol to go to Burke's room?

 

[DeeDee249]

A couple other things that bothered me about the pineapple.

1) IIRC, it was fresh cut pineapple. Fresh pineapple is difficult for me to cut. I cannot see Burke or JBR cutting fresh pineapple.

2) I can't imagine JBR waking up in a dark house and going downstairs to fix herself a snack. Wasn't her normal protocol to go to Burke's room?

1. Patsy had said she always kept fresh pineapple for the kids, JB was said to love it. However, she told LE in one of her interviews that she bought it already cut up at the grocery store. They sell it like that in my supermarkets, too. Fresh pineapple, peaches, fruit cocktail, grapefruit sections all are sold in containers in the refrigerated section of the produce dept. So no one had to cut the fresh pineapple up- it was bought already cut up.

2. Patsy mentioned that sometimes JB would go into BR's room if she woke up.

Bottom line- JR wasn't walking around the house alone in the dark anyway.
Patsy had said JB would not have been able to reach the bowl of pineapple in the fridge. Someone had to get it out for her. There are 2 sets of prints on the bowl of pineapple, Patsy's and BR's. One of them got the bowl of pineapple down. I wouldn't rule out BR doing it, possibly having a snack of pineapple with JB. But we'll never know because he won't talk to LE now, and back then, their access to him was limited and frankly, LE may not even have asked whether BR sat with JB while she ate the pineapple.

 

[BBB167893]

You see DD, I have so much trouble with this take of RDI's on the evidence. Unknown DNA has no value, but if there was a person identified who was the owner of this DNA it would be different. An unknown person in the home is dismissed, but the possibility of a known person having been there is embraced.

Um, that's generally how it works here in America, Murri. I don't know about Australia.

 

[BBB167893]

I want to believe IDI. I sincerely believed IDI. I just cant anymore. My reasons are not because i was over exposed by a biased media! My opinion comes from alot of reading!

Welcome to the club!

 

[BBB167893]

Would someone kindly explain to me, according to RDI theories, how the murder occurred and the sexual assault and redressing in sequence??

I'd be glad to do it.

There is urine staining on the longjohns. There is urine staining on the panties. There is blood staining on the panties.

I'm having difficulty understanding how this can be consistent with RDI.

Allow me. The blood most likely came from the jabbing when the pants were pulled back up, and her body then expelled urine upon death. This is known as "voiding."

If the parents are the perps, and the head wound was an accident and the cord around the neck merely staging (as per RDI), this seems to be inconsistent with the time and cause of death. If death occured after the head bash and before the cord was applied (and I cannot see how it can be timed any other way to fit with RDI),

I can. And it might help you if I do. Even if the cord was applied while JB was still alive, if they didn't KNOW she was alive, it's still staging.

then the sexual assault that supposedly took place as part of the staging (supposedly using the paint brush) would have to have been done while she was still alive.

Right.

If the cord was staging, how can she have died from strangulation?

Do we have to go through that again!?

The clothing was re-arranged prior to the release of urine at the time of death.

Right.

 

[Toltec]

It's funny you mention that, Kari, because, to hear him tell it in DOI, that's exactly why he covered her up in the living room.

I was going to post the same exact thing...how he covered her AGAIN!

LE questions Patsy about where she keeps her crafts...specifically glitter. I wonder if glitter was found on JonBenet. The glitter was kept in the storage room next to the train room...under the window.

LE questions John about whether he owns work gloves...wonder why?