If Terri didn't do it, then why.....

[Astrella613]

LE has been known to focus on the wrong person in other cases. The family and LE are not sharing their knowledge with us, rightly so, but without facts and evidence I remain on the fence but leaning to one side for sure.

 

[debs]

LE has been known to focus on the wrong person in other cases. The family and LE are not sharing their knowledge with us, rightly so, but without facts and evidence I remain on the fence but leaning to one side for sure.

It is possible, and I can only keep it as a possibility, that Terri's "crime" is covering for someone she cares about. As reprehensible as it is to keep information which would resolve a missing child's case, I can only come up with one compelling reason for a woman to not speak up, and that is that she is attempting to protect someone whom she loves more than anything.

The other possibility which is too often dismissed because Terri is reportedly lying, is that she is truly innocent.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This is a spin off thread
If Terri didn't do it, then why would LE so obviously be focusing on her?
Why would Kaine and Desiree purposely have these press confrences, pointing at Terri and away from the potential "real suspect"?

I have read that Terri is being framed...
That she is the scapegoat, and various other theories,
Can someone PLEASE help me understand why, LE and/or Kaine and Desiree would ruin this womans life, take away her child, paint her in such a horrible light, and point everyone away from who really took Kyron, if they didn't absolutely beleive she is responsible?

They could absolutely believe that TMH did it and be wrong. Investigative tunnel vision is a very real and well documented problem (see Steven Hatfill and Kevin Fox, for example). When investigators suffer from tunnel vision, they are absolutely certain they are on the correct track.

The problem with investigative tunnel vision is that the people suffering from it are blind to it. They don't realise that they are missing obvious leads (like the tennis shoes in the Kevin Fox case) and everything the suspect does seems suspicious (like the paper Steven Hatfill wrote in 1999).

In such cases, it's usually easy to see in hindsight how amazingly wrong investigators were. In Kevin Fox's case, who could have overlooked a pair of tennis shoes with the name of a convicted sex offender found very near the child's body? In Steven Hatfill's case, it should have been clear that anyone who had access to the 1999 paper was as much a suspect as Steven Hatfill.

It just isn't that easy to detect investigative tunnel vision.

I hasten to add that I do not know if this is a problem with Kyron's case or not but it is a known hazard.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't think that is weak, I think it is very possible.

Also, I still have a hard time explaining TH getting Kyron out of the school with our anyone seeing anything. Anybody. If she did, then she should go buy some lottery tickets because that is some really great luck!

And yet someone clearly did leave school with Kyron without being seen.

I agree that whoever did it was lucky but not, I think, as lucky as all that. In the vast majority of scenarios I have read or come up with, the high risk period was perhaps a maximum of 10 seconds, the period of time during which Kyron was placed in a vehicle. That was probably the point at which the point of no return was reached.

If this was premeditated by anyone, all that person had to do was to be alert for anyone observing them. Had the perpetrator seen someone observing them with Kyron, they would simply have aborted the attempt. No harm, no foul.

It is much easier to get away with hiding sonething for ten seconds than it is to get away with hiding it for five minutes.

 

[Aedrys]

I'm mostly depending on my gut. Since day 1, something has been off about Terri and I just can't get past it. If evidence comes out that she's innocent, I'll believe it. But my gut coupled with what we do know keeps telling me she did it.

I do respect those still on the fence, though, because there is no definitive proof she did it beyond what has been said in pressers and interviews. I just wish I could ignore my gut and be up on the fence with you.

 

[PoppyH]

And yet someone clearly did leave school with Kyron without being seen.

I agree that whoever did it was lucky but not, I think, as lucky as all that. In the vast majority of scenarios I have read or come up with, the high risk period was perhaps a maximum of 10 seconds, the period of time during which Kyron was placed in a vehicle. That was probably the point at which the point of no return was reached.

If this was premeditated by anyone, all that person had to do was to be alert for anyone observing them. Had the perpetrator seen someone observing them with Kyron, they would simply have aborted the attempt. No harm, no foul.

It is much easier to get away with hiding sonething for ten seconds than it is to get away with hiding it for five minutes.

Has it been said Terri left the school without Kyron?? Maybee, Just Maybee someone DID see her leave with Kyron, something to think about.....

 

[raeann]

In the same respect how could ANYONE get him out of the school without being seen? I dont know the answer to that but somehow he got out of the school and no one saw.

For someone who BELONGED around the school all day that day, it would have been relatively easy to hide him somewhere in the school that only they had access to, and then remove him during the talent show when everyone was in the same place for well over an hour and a half time period. There was also a basically empty building for 30 minutes or more between the time the buses left the school and when anyone arrived to begin searching for Kyron. Taking him from a bathroom area during the "touring" time would also have been relatively easy, though much more risk of another random child going to use the restroom.

 

[believe09]

PPD 18 months after the birth of her child=a mitigating factor. Really? I dont think so...Post Partum Psychosis might do it. But 18 mos is too long for that to be a factor.

PPD is not going to cause her to kill her step son. IF Terri was responsible for his disappearance, it was impecably planned. That also is not indicative of PPD. JMO. To me, this is along the lines of calling every criminal a sociopath.....

I have no clue if Terri is innocent. I am curious as to why LE might share definitive proof of a MFH plot with Kaine and then not arrest her. I am not concerned about the "failed sting" as much as I am concerned about Kyron and the other minors in the case. I think Kaine's actions are appropriate-I do not know enough about Terri's to think whether or not they are appropriate. I think DY is showing a great deal of strength, whether or not her position is a truthful one. She does not want to show Kyron a house divided when he comes home. At least that is what she said.

Terri will have her day in court shortly, and I will be interested in her defense.

 

[TxLady2]

bbm

I haven't followed nearly as many cases as some of the more seasoned posters here. If others with more experience than me say that LE rarely names a POI or suspect until they make an arrest, then I defer to their knowledge. My understanding is that the term "suspect" is a legal term, and once someone is named a suspect, it sets into motion a time frame regarding charges being brought against the accused.

Whomever is responsible, LE needs solid proof.

At this point, if all LE has regarding their investigation of TH is what we've read/heard about in the media (cell phone pings, showing deception on a key answer on a poly, unsubstantiated MFH plot) that's not even enough to convene a Grand Jury, let alone bring charges & pursue a conviction.

In terms of the idea that LE may be naming TH a POI or suspect through KH & DY, here is the official stance of the MCSO:

There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported during the Horman/Young July 8, 2010 press conferences. The information released in during these conferences did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. This is an ongoing investigation.

http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1276&alert=1

Interesting, isn't it. LE is not endorsing what the biological parents are saying in these interviews recently. I'm not sure what to make of that, other than it is always their policy not to reveal their case too soon. IOW, they don't publicly name a suspect until they have them in custody. That is because in the past, they have been hit with a lot of problems from people who turned out NOT to be the guilty party, and because it taints the opinions of the public to the extent that the person did not receive a fair trial once a case made it to court.
The court of public opinion is harsh. LE tries to do everything they can not to influence that opinion ahead of time.
Also... they want to make a strong case against someone, so they are not going to arrest and charge anyone until they know WHAT the charges will be. At this point, they don't know whether Kyron is alive or dead. Until they find him, or Terri confesses what happened to him... they have to continue their investigation. And they could be investigating other people, for all we know.
They have no control over what the parents say in these interviews, they can advise them, but they can't do anything about it if they say something they shouldn't. Ex: Terri failing the LDT's and walking out in the middle of one of them.
I firmly believe that Tony being a detective himself, has a lot to do with what the parents believe. He may not be getting information from MC, BUT his instincts as a detective are taking over and he is telling them things that they would not normally be aware of. He is guiding them, in the hopes that it will put so much pressure on Terri, she will crack and tell them what they need to know.

 

[Chewy]

Lets think of something. Kyron goes missing with nothing to do wiht Terri but she knows she's been plotting to kill Kaine. So obviously she's freaking out over this.

I'd like to hear the 911 calls regarding the LS showing up. I do have to say that I think that was a bad attempt at a sting by the police. Obviously if Kyron is missing she's not going to go forward in her MFH attempt. Especially when a new guy shows up with the LS. That was just stupid in MOO.

What I'm wondering about this case is if TH has a reason to feel she's going to be looked at as a suspect, it would make sense that she stopped cooperating. The fact that she had a MFH in the works could have led to a real mistake on her part that she knows will make her look guilty.

There is no way Kyron is coming home based on the way this case has been handled. They have not handled it in a way that would suggest any sort of leniency for TH so why would she cooperate now? To me the fact that they focused so intently on her thinking that Kyron is still alive has basically sealed his fate. If she has no out except for them not finding the body she is never going to cooperate now.

 

[Trident]

I'm mostly depending on my gut. Since day 1, something has been off about Terri and I just can't get past it. If evidence comes out that she's innocent, I'll believe it. But my gut coupled with what we do know keeps telling me she did it.

I do respect those still on the fence, though, because there is no definitive proof she did it beyond what has been said in pressers and interviews. I just wish I could ignore my gut and be up on the fence with you.

Don't feel bad, my first reaction to SM was, "She did it". After the first "family" media event without Terri, I started to see things differently. There may have been some very good reaons Terri came off badly in the first "united family PC" - she looked scared, worried, and now, with everything that's transpired, I can understand why. Remember, she knows these people better than we do.

As for LE giving the bio parents hints that SM may be guilty/involved, I believe it's possible the bio parents gave hints to LE, pointed them in her direction and they were off to the races.

I'm still on the fence, but now I'm looking more closely at stranger abduction, or that Kyron may have wandered off. Yeah, we've heard he was shy, wouldn't get out of bed 'till someone came to get him, but was Kyron really that shy, or did someone try to make him that way?

There's a lot here to ponder. Without hard evidence, I can't convict anyone.

My opinion only

 

[socalgal2]

LE seems to have an instinct, they are around criminals ALL the time. I beleive there is more than just shaky poly's, possable cell pings, and a MFH plot.

Why have we not heard any more about the camera requests from local businesses? Why hasn't Terri come out to refute any of these claims? Why has she not faught tooth and nail for her baby back? Maybe no one saw anything but what if someone took photos that showed something. The information that we have heard is information that LE wants us to hear. I cant see them ruining an innocent persons life on a whim.

I 100% agree with you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!:blowkiss:
Now back under my rock I go..for now:angel:

 

[mountaintime]

I cannot believe that Desiree and Kaine would be publicly saying the things that they are, without the knowledge and blessings of LE.
These are things that LE cannot legally say...but want out there for whatever reason.

I am no longer on the fence. The lack of cooperation of Terri, the lack of any statements from her lawyer ( who I hope is urging her to reveal where Kyron is...if he is still alive), and the retrospective insights of the other parents...are making this pretty clear.

 

[Chili Fries]

First off, this is a tough question to answer because we don't know the extent of the evidence LE has which points to Terri.

But the most important clues we know are the cell pings and lie detector tests. The cell pings are probably a very crucial piece of evidence. There are no towers on Sauvie Island but there are many surrounding it, especially to the east and southeast. The more towers that receive a ping from a phone, the more accurately the location of the phone can be pinpointed. The accuracy of the location can be improved even more depending on the type of antenna a tower has. So the cell phone ping data can be analyzed to determine it's accuracy. If her phone pinged off more than 3 or 4 towers they can probably group the pings from different sets of towers to check and re-check the location given by the results from the full set of tower pings.

So...LE probably have an idea of how accurate the cellphone ping data. If the data is only marginally accurate then they could be giving it too much weight. I think that is not likely given the amount of towers in the area and the lay of the land but I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if some of the cell ping data from that day is missing (in the Mackenzie Cowell case unfortunately the phone company lost some crucial data from the day Mackenzie went missing).

And we know that polygraphs are not scientifically sound enough to be permissible in court. I'm sure Terri walking out of the first polygraph (as Kaine said in an interview aired this morning) didn't help her case but maybe she just couldn't take the pressure of being suspected. What about her not telling the truth about what she did the day she went missing? We don't know how incomplete or unrealistic her story is. Maybe it's an obvious load of crap or maybe it's more plausible but just doesn't fit what LE thinks is evidence to the contrary.

I'm pretty confident that LE has good reason to suspect her but I don't think it's too difficult to come up with reasons why they could be jumping the gun, at least from our view as investigation outsiders.

 

[debs]

First off, this is a tough question to answer because we don't know the extent of the evidence LE has which points to Terri.

But the most important clues we know are the cell pings and lie detector tests. The cell pings are probably a very crucial piece of evidence. There are no towers on Sauvie Island but there are many surrounding it, especially to the east and southeast. The more towers that receive a ping from a phone, the more accurately the location of the phone can be pinpointed. The accuracy of the location can be improved even more depending on the type of antenna a tower has. So the cell phone ping data can be analyzed to determine it's accuracy. If her phone pinged off more than 3 or 4 towers they can probably group the pings from different sets of towers to check and re-check the location given by the results from the full set of tower pings.

So...LE probably have an idea of how accurate the cellphone ping data. If the data is only marginally accurate then they could be giving it too much weight. I think that is not likely given the amount of towers in the area and the lay of the land but I certainly wouldn't rule it out, especially if some of the cell ping data from that day is missing (in the Mackenzie Cowell case unfortunately the phone company lost some crucial data from the day Mackenzie went missing).

And we know that polygraphs are not scientifically sound enough to be permissible in court. I'm sure Terri walking out of the first polygraph (as Kaine said in an interview aired this morning) didn't help her case but maybe she just couldn't take the pressure of being suspected. What about her not telling the truth about what she did the day she went missing? We don't know how incomplete or unrealistic her story is. Maybe it's an obvious load of crap or maybe it's more plausible but just doesn't fit what LE thinks is evidence to the contrary.

I'm pretty confident that LE has good reason to suspect her but I don't think it's too difficult to come up with reasons why they could be jumping the gun, at least from our view as investigation outsiders.

Do we have that cell phone in Terri's possession that day? I mean, I haven't seen any evidence which suggests Terri had it in her hands at all times. It's possible that it was in a vehicle. That vehicle could have been used by anyone. I could be totally wrong, but we have no confirmation that she had her phone on her person.

 

[Donjeta]

I imagine if she'd lended her vehicle and phone to somebody she would have said so when questioned.

My problem with the SODDI scenario is that if TDI we only need one person to be cruel, hateful and dishonest. If SODDI we still have to have a cruel, hateful and dishonest perp but then we have to explain why a bunch of other people in the family and in the investigation are cruelly persecuting an innocent woman. The family might have personal reasons for hateful behavior but why does LE seem to share the scapegoating attitude?

 

[shefner]

Whats amazing to me about the cell phone pings is how they would be able to determine she was on the island just by cell phone pings. Her home, the school, the gym, and the island are all within a few miles of each other. Would all of these locations not feed from the same cell phone towers? I was surprised at how close these places are located when I viewed the map....

 

[Chili Fries]

Whats amazing to me about the cell phone pings is how they would be able to determine she was on the island just by cell phone pings. Her home, the school, the gym, and the island are all within a few miles of each other. Would all of these locations not feed from the same cell phone towers? I was surprised at close these places are located when I viewed the map....

This is a very good link to see how the locating is done:

http://searchengineland.com/cell-phone-triangulation-accuracy-is-all-over-the-map-14790

As you can see from the link if a phone pings off 3 towers (or only 2 if they both have directional antennas) then the location of the phone can be determined. And if more towers receive the ping then the accuracy goes up.

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

Good question butterfly!

This whole time I was thinking she was innocent... none of the evidence was doing it for me. BUT, now that Kaine mentions the thing about PPD and how much she changed after having the baby, it's starting to become clear to me
I had horrible PPD after having my last one... so I know how psychotic it can make you. I'm not even going to talk about some of the thoughts that crossed my mind (totally not related to hurting any of my kids!)
I still don't think she did it herself... I'm thinking someone else is involved. Another landscaper maybe? Gahhhhhh but why Kyron?? Was he an easier target?

 

[keeponsearching]

Well if TH didn't do it...... If someone close to the family like DY feels TH has something to do with it, and backs up lies over the years, and TH fails her poly ( which some do, I could name a few cases, but don't have all day) lies about where she;s been, then yeah I can see why she is being watched so carefully.. Gosh darn that was easy. Doesn't mean she did it..

The best thing that LE can have, is if someone can place TH and Kyron leaving..... Together...... Anything else I posted, I'm pretty sure you can't get arrested for.....