If Terri didn't do it, then why.....

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
For those wondering if this is a crime. Scroll down. Kyron is on the left & 1st under this header:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fo/pdwanted.htm
Kidnappings/Critical Missing Persons
Kyron Richard Horman




What do you mean, "wondering if this is a crime"? Do you mean whether it was an accident or not, or whether it actually happened...? (Just not getting what you mean in this post.)
 
All I am saying is Terri might be in on this plot line...

And before you ask... yes, I would do anything to get my son back.. even if it mean I wreck my own rep for the time being.. who cares... once my child is home, I can tell the media why I did what I did :)

I don't believe it. Maybe if it was just about her but she has two children who are not missing and who are affected by this. The younger one just saw her home broken and if either one of them read what has been said about their mother they must be devastated. Their friends might read it too... And if the plan doesn't work and they never catch the real perp the stigma will shadow Terri forever.

I just think that this is overkill. A lot of people were convinced that LE was looking at Terri when it was just the Facebook messages. A few more were convinced by the rumors about the cell pings. Articles about her lying to LE. The questionnaire. The polygraphs. Just a fraction of that would have sufficed IMO because it was working and many thought that LE looked at her when we had very little to go on.

The landscaper, the RO, the divorce and the eviction from her home and now the press conferences and the interviews of the parents seem to be too much. It seems to have made a few people jump back on the fence because it's overkill. If LE wanted the real perp to think they've focused on Terri they didn't need all that.
 
Yeah, I read that.. isn't that weird? She even went as far as telling them what questions she failed..??

I got the impression from Desiree that she had failed the questions about where she was that day. But of course if she was lying she might have lied about that too :croc:
 
Well, they haven't arresetd Terri to date...

So, what IF they are saying all this stuff, only to give the REAL perp a sense of "I got away with it" ...??

IIRC - LE does not tell people they passed or failed a poly...

Well..they told Kaine Desiree and Tony that they passed theres with flying colours.
 
What do you mean, "wondering if this is a crime"? Do you mean whether it was an accident or not, or whether it actually happened...? (Just not getting what you mean in this post.)

Post #133 upthread. I just glanced at it and two people were discussing whether it is a crime or not, and if so what crime it is. So I posted the link to FBI's web site so people could know.
 
Well..they told Kaine Desiree and Tony that they passed theres with flying colours.

LOL.....that is sort of an inside joke with some LE officers, they tell everyone that 'cause they get a chuckle out of hearing that same lame old worn out phrase coming out of everyone's mouth who takes a LDT. If you notice...TY was not the one using that phrase 'cause he probably gets the joke. I have frequently heard LE say that they do not interpret the results, a specialist does, and that person doesn't necessarily ever see or speak to the person being questioned.

jmo
 
Post #133 upthread. I just glanced at it and two people were discussing whether it is a crime or not, and if so what crime it is. So I posted the link to FBI's web site so people could know.

Ah, ok, I see now. I saw those posts as just a discussion as to proving there was a "murder," as it seemed fairly likely there was a crime, so I thought they were just wondering which one.

Thanks for clarifying.
 
I don't place much stock in polygraph tests from what I've read & heard from documentries w/experts. They say it only measures emotions. That some very famous serial killers have not faltered because they have NO emotions. Whereas someone with strong emotional attachment to the subject being asked about could show strong emotions depending what they're thinking. A Mother or Father might be thinking about their kidnapped child for example. Emphasis on MIGHT. These are some of the reasons they say they're not allowed in a court of law and why they probably never will be. I say horray to that. We need more than that to solve crime. Stepmom advertising she failed sounds similar to someone enjoying attn; such as munchousen by proxy. Not saying that's the case with this case; just sayin' it's a reminder to me.
 
IIRC Ronald Cummings said that he and Misty passed with flying colors and she didn't do so well in her tests with Tim Miller later.
 
bolded by me.
i thought in this country you have to be proven guilty, not innocent.

SBM

It's based on logic: you cannot prove a negative.

All proof is positive: not "I didn't do it" but "I was in NYC on 4 June 2010 and had four hour-long meetings with A, B, C and D between 8 am and 4 pm." I can't prove I didn't abduct Kyron but I can indeed affirmatively prove that I was somewhere else in that time period.

The problem, of course, is someone who cannot prove they were doing something else for the period of the crime. Which can happen to factually innocent people; no normal adult lives under constant scrutiny.

In a court of law, then, the prosecution must prove not that the defendant couldn't prove otherwise but that the evidence proves that the defendant did it.

So yes, innocent until proven guilty.

Countries where the burden of proof is on the defendant are places most USAns don't even want to visit.
 
I once 'failed' a LDT. I was floored because my answers were honest and beyond reproach. So, given my own experience, I find LDTs to be interesting but not conclusive about anything.

What is more interesting to me is TH talking about it and pointing out the answers she 'got wrong.' Is she, perhaps, making a preemptive strike against a report that she did not pass it? Maybe pointing out 'yea I got this wrong and that wrong' while not making note of the questions that were actually relevant to Kyron being missing?

I don't know if I explained my thoughts very well. :eek:
 
This is the thing that gets me the most and leads to my suspicions that TH is definitely involved with Kyron's disappearance:

The coincidence of these two particular but separate events in one person's life inside a few months:

(1) The person's stepchild disappears.

(2) Someone accuses the person of hiring them to kill the person's husband.

Unless the landscaper is the one who kidnapped Kyron and is trying to frame TH, I can't imagine those two separate events happening "at random" so to speak to one individual. Either event would never ever happen at all to 99,999,999 people out of 100,000,000.

Both events happening in the span of a few months to the same person?

It is not so unlikely that 2) would follow 1), depending on the nature of 2).

Just for the sake of argument, what if the landscaper is someone who is a convicted sex offender who had not registered properly in accordance with Oregon's laws? Or what if the landscaper is an undocumented immigrant? Or what if the landscaper had a big ol' chunk of heroin in his pocket when LE tracked him down?

Might he not have very good reason to lie to LE in an attempt to mitigate or avoid bad consequences?

Heck, every high profile case gets its share of nuts implicating themselves. Mark Carr was the poster boy for such behaviour but he's far from the only one. What if the landscaper is one such person?

With no other information to go on but the description of the witness as a landscaper, I don't feel it is unfair to question the credibility. Particularly since the witness did not come forward for seven months; he is definitely not completely without suspicion himself.

But I will say that there may be someone setting her up for all we know...good point about Jon Benet's parents. But, they were never arrested or indicted...zero evidence and have since been completely vindicated.

If there is zero evidence against TH, she won't be arrested.

My gut is that she is involved though. But if they have proof of a conspirancy, that will come out and I'll be the first to say I was wrong.

There are 255 people to date who were wrongly convicted and served considerable prison time who could tell you that being factually innocent is no protection against arrest, let alone conviction. Seventeen of those people spent time on death row.

True, the Ramseys were never convicted in anything but the court of public opinion. And that was devastating for them. Poor Patsy Ramsey died with that cloud of suspicion still directed at her. John Ramsey is no doubt aware of the many people who actually celebrated her death.

We are a social, gregarious species that absolutely needs the comfort of our own kind. Babies will die without that comfort and going without that comfort will for long periods of time will break down the mental and emotional stability of adults.

It is no small thing to be suspected of such a crime as the injuring or death of a small child. Rightfully, the standard of proof should be very, very high.
 
I once 'failed' a LDT. I was floored because my answers were honest and beyond reproach. So, given my own experience, I find LDTs to be interesting but not conclusive about anything.

What is more interesting to me is TH talking about it and pointing out the answers she 'got wrong.' Is she, perhaps, making a preemptive strike against a report that she did not pass it? Maybe pointing out 'yea I got this wrong and that wrong' while not making note of the questions that were actually relevant to Kyron being missing?

I don't know if I explained my thoughts very well. :eek:

One strange thing to me is if she's explained which answers she got wrong and why but then Kaine said she walked out before she was even hooked up. If she didn't do the test how did she tell which answers she would have failed?
 
A few thoughts about LDT.

I took one once. Failed it miserably. Didn't have anything to do with a crime, and I wasn't accused of anything. Just managed to fail it horrifically.

Then, about 10 years later, I took another one. There was a 'control' question, that I knew I had to lie about (those were the instructions, so they'd get a baseline on what happens *to me* when I lie, and how the machine reads it. The polygrapher was chuckling about three questions ahead...I was already losing control, knowing I'd have to "lie", even though there was no negative consequence for lying. By the time I got to the "lie", he had to adjust the paper several times to keep the needle on it. Afterwards, he told me to go home and congratulate my parents - they'd raised a very honest person who couldn't lie to save herself.

Those two experiences taught me something very, very valuable. There is definitely a valid reason LDTs are not allowed as evidence. One can fail them for so many different reasons, and pass them for the same thing. It's one of those things which, if done correctly, can yield clues to follow up on...but even then, it's not so very reliable.

And my last thought on polygraphing, is that cops can, and often do, tell a person they've failed it, just to rachet up pressure on someone they feel is guilty and close to cracking. The problem is, the person may not have failed it whatsoever; may have passed it. May have passed it with "flying colors". But they're told they failed it. The officers can, and often do, lie to suspects just to gauge reactions and see if they can't pressure them into confessing.

And if TH walked out of one poly because "she was failing", it wasn't her who figured that out. She can't see the graph. That's part of how the area is arranged; the person taking the poly can't see what a "lie" looks like on a graph. So she must've been told she'd failed (and it may have been a lie), and she got frustrated, unhooked and left. But it wasn't her who decided she'd failed; she's been told that by LE who are legally allowed to lie about results and evidence and testimony.

So many people don't realize that LE is legally able to lie about things.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Herding Cats,
Thanks for that post--it is very interesting! I have never had a polygraph test, but my sister took one to work in a jewelry store when we were in high school. Even then, I was intimidated just by listening to her experience~I knew I never wanted to take one, lol!
 
I need to voice this. Please hear me out, folks.

I don't know if TH is guilty or not. I do know that there are a whole lot of rumors and unverified things (e.g. my post about the poly's) flying around, that somehow people have decided is true, and are running to convictionland with. But the real truth is we don't know.

I see a huge issue looming. The pressure on TH is enormous, and I'm frightened she will suicide.

People get mad because DY says TH is not cooperating. If by cooperating, DY means confessing, what if there's nothing TH can confess to?

People get mad because TH isn't wearing a particular tee shirt. So what? Neither is KH or DY...but no one gets furious with them. Just TH.

KH and TH went to the gym - together!!! - and yet TH is castigated and excuses are given for KH. For the same thing. For pete's sake, people!! Cstigate both, or castigate neither. I mean, honestly.

KH put something onto a TRO, which is granted as a matter of course, and people have decided that LE has PC to nail TH. Well, maybe, but maybe they see this as both a protective measure (someone did go to them and say there was a MFH plot), and as a way to pressure TH into breaking. Some folks think that means LE knows far more than they're telling. I don't know; but I can say that if they're wrong, and operating on rumors, then a woman's life is doubly ruined. And the TRO may not even be granted, especially if KH can't come up with better evidence than "I think...".

If I were the DA, I'd not allow any charges to be filed...not on what little hard evidence LE may have. For all I know, they have nothing...the failed poly's were a lie, and so even that unadmissable evidence is false. There is no way I'd put my name on the bottom of a charging document and put it in front of a judge for a warrant...not without a whole lot more than rumors, hearsay, and flat biased BS that's been floating around. I keep wondering, "what if TH really has told all she knows...?"

I want Kyron found. Alive, if possible. But found. I don't know if I think TH is guilty or not. But I do know that if the pressure continues, she just might decide to kill herself. And if she does, and Kyron is then found, dead (God forbid) or alive (please God), and it turns out that she had nothing to do with it...a woman's life was destroyed on innuendo and rumor.

I am just very frustrated at how TH is being treated. It's going to backfire somehow. I just hope it doesn't compound the tragedy we all know about - and that is Kyron is missing, and needs to come home.

Thanks for hearing me. Praying for Kyron, always.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
I'm nervous just reading about it! I have never committed a crime. I'm a nervous person normally.I also suffer from white coat syndrome. The second I walk in the Dr.'s office or hospital I start sweating and my heart rate and blood pressure shoot way up.If I'm taking someone to the hospital or Dr.'s I fine. If I'm the patient....I'm toast!
 
Herding Cats,
Thanks for that post--it is very interesting! I have never had a polygraph test, but my sister took one to work in a jewelry store when we were in high school. Even then, I was intimidated just by listening to her experience~I knew I never wanted to take one, lol!
Both of my experiences were to acquire employment. One job I got, the other one I didn't. Neither time did I lie...even on the one I was supposed to lie on, I was to answer the question "no." Knowing this, I still answered "yes NO I mean NO!" (I was to answer a series of questions about numbers as yes, and then, on number 8, I was to say "no". It didn't happen. LOL).

They are very intimidating...and I still laugh about them. Totally bizarro-world stuff.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
157
Guests online
1,913
Total visitors
2,070

Forum statistics

Threads
601,869
Messages
18,131,067
Members
231,170
Latest member
peachstatesleuth
Back
Top