Resolved IL - Chicago, BlkFem UP12930, 55-75, on Lake Michigan shore, Mar'08 - namus removed

[jenstar]

IMO, Having the Dec 14th Date, and it being a Sunday; with the connection of the Mission..I'd say that would be a better lead. Wouldn't you? She had to sign something in and out to get that claim ticket..or signed something in, and DIDN'T sign it out (which could be the reason it wasn't detached along the perforation)?

 

[Cubby]

**Bottom left corner** faded and upside down on a waterlogged piece of paper (underneath the partial address for BTG, along the fold) I see the date Dec 14 08 in handwriting. That was a sunday per my calendar. Also, pacific garden mission is a Church based group. I wonder if they have a "sign in-sign out" sheet for that date? JMO

If you look at the DHS form - to the right of the Christmas wrapping paper next to the hand written word "intake" is the 12 from December.


Good catch on the 12-14 date. Now, I am curious. How far is the location she was found from the Pacific Garden Mission location in Chicago?

 

[Cubby]

On reflection, I'm not sure we can assume that LE followed up. You'd think that if they had, after only three months, somebody at one of the shelters would have been able to supply at least some information. Yeah, I know they deal with hundreds of people, but that's pretty recent.

It wouldn't have been LE that worked on a UID, it would have been the coroner/medical examiner. We know from following the unidentified Gacy victims the Cook County coroners office was one big mess until recently. I'm sure it was a mess in 2008 when this woman was found.

I know of a case in which a woman found in the lake about this same time (w/in a year or two either way) was reported missing IN CHICAGO and was unidentified for a long time.

There was probably little, if any, investigation at the time she was found.

 

[jenstar]

re: transit I'm guessing that 5401s lakeshore listed in NamUs is the nearest address to where she was found. Pacific garden mission is on the map too. What I found most interesting was there is a bus stop not too far from the mission that runs every 12 minutes and the route goes right past where the UID was found. Linking map with bus route. Estimated trip 6.5miles.https://www.google.com/maps/dir/540...2d0801e641c2!2m2!1d-87.639756!2d41.862177!3e3

 

[jenstar]

I was thinking about this case before I went to bed last night. I had some "major issues" rolling around in my head. 1. Why was her body found in the lake nearly 3 months later? 2. Why was she only 7 miles from where she'd been staying? 3. Would the homeless people be staying near the lakefront in winter?

So, I'd asked a few Chicagoans what their take on the homeless population was and where'd they'd be staying. Come to find out; they only sleep in the parks on the lakefront in summertime. Besides Pacific Gardens and the BTG communal living; there's really nowhere on the lakefront to stay. Most of the homeless move inland to get away from the cold. Which leads me to even more questions.
Wouldn't you think that she would have been found further "south" along the shore if she were "floating" in the lake for at least one of those months?
I wonder what the coroner's report was on the cause of death; because my "hunch" is that it's homicide or suicide. With as many boat docks and piers that there are in the area; I don't see it being "acidental." The "mental illness" part of it has me leaning towards suicide.
I know that the "why/how" sometimes don't matter..but it could lead us to the "who." If we could rule out homocide; we could see if the people at Bridging the Gap would know of any pontentially suicidal women in that time frame fitting her description. What do you guys think?
(MOO/JMO) And other thoughts of my own..

 

[jenstar]

Answered one of my own questions. I came across this article clipped from the Chicago Tribune. "The body did not show any signs of violence.."http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t30455.htm

 

[Cubby]

She could have been walking near the lake and slipped on ice (the rocky area's get icy) or been knocked over by wind. My gut in this case has always been accident. Especially since she was found wedged in the rocks.

There are quite a few accidents where people are knocked into the lake due to the wind.

We had a MP case a few years back where the man fell into the lake in January and wasn't found until the spring. It's not uncommon for people to be found in the spring, and they can also be found a bit further south than where they entered the lake as seen in the case I am referring to.

 

[jenstar]

I'm guessing you're right, Cubby. I looked on the ME's website and there's a case just as old as hers but she's not there with a PM photo. They also have a section for "burials" that would tell us if she'd been buried yet, and she's not listed there either. So, I'm thinking she's still at the morgue. It just struck me as odd that she didn't float farther south if she were in the water. And you're right, it still could have been completely iced over. Maybe again, she just missed the water? I know that there's a spot on the Ohio River that usually calms my nerves. http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KORD/2008/12/14/WeeklyHistory.html

The link shows the weather forecasts for that week.

 

[Cubby]

There was something on the news a few days ago about a private(?) burial for many of the Cook County unidentified. I didn't pay much attention to it because the news put the 'unborn children' spin on the burial and for the most part zero mention of NamUs and the thousands of unidentified needing to be id'd. (Catholic donation of the grave sites and no markers from what I recall.) Ignoring the 'born' UID's turned me off so much that I didn't bother to look up any more info. I'm going to refrain from further comment on the subject, because this is the UID forum....


anyhoo. Here is a link to a blog with photo's of the shoreline of Lake Michigan between 54th and 57th street beach. This will give readers a better idea of what kind of rocks we are talking about here. Keep scrolling to see all the pictures. http://hydeparkprogress.blogspot.com/2008/01/concrete-versus-limestone.html


Here is another article showing the waves along the Chicago lake . (Though this is not in the same are our Jane Doe was found) http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/08/13/rip-currents-high-waves-prompt-beach-warnings/

 

[chaleigh26]

Written on one of the scraps of paper is Suburban Reg PO box 7009. I believe it might be the West Suburban Regional office ,Illinois Guardianship and Advocacy Commission. I'm not in the US so excuse me if I've got all that completely wrong.

 

[carbuff]

She could have been walking near the lake and slipped on ice (the rocky area's get icy) or been knocked over by wind. My gut in this case has always been accident. Especially since she was found wedged in the rocks.

There are quite a few accidents where people are knocked into the lake due to the wind.

We had a MP case a few years back where the man fell into the lake in January and wasn't found until the spring. It's not uncommon for people to be found in the spring, and they can also be found a bit further south than where they entered the lake as seen in the case I am referring to.

Yeah, people fall in the water off rocks, piers, docks, etc. all the freakin' time around Boston. People walk out to get a view, or some fresh air, or smoke a cigarette, and they don't watch their footing, and the next thing you know, wham, another drowning statistic. Bodies tend to sink in cold water so even when they have video of somebody going into the water, they can't always find them right away. Generally not until spring when the water warms up and the body rises.

That doesn't even count the people who walk out on lakes, ponds, rivers, etc. and fall through the ice.

"Floating" is a relative term, too. The body is often at least a couple of feet below the surface and not readily visible.

 

[Cubby]

Written on one of the scraps of paper is Suburban Reg PO box 7009. I believe it might be the West Suburban Regional office ,Illinois Guardianship and Advocacy Commission. I'm not in the US so excuse me if I've got all that completely wrong.

Thank you! I hadn't looked up the PO box address. The PO box listing has several things associated with it which all seem to center around the local VA hospital, Hines VA Hospital. (Which I thought was a Maywood address, but apparently Hines has it's own city name.) It looks like it is possibly the Joe Madden Mental Health center.

I wonder if this UID is a vet?

 

[chaleigh26]

Hi Cubby, yes Madden Mental Health does come up under Illinois DHS and the Guardianship and Advocacy Commission for people with a disability made me think of Janet Tillman, that lucidtx had posted.

 

[Cubby]

I think Janet Tillman was probably a victim of foul play from the person whose car she entered. I have a hard time seeing a mentally ill person traveling 300 or so miles to seek treatment and in such a short space of time. Why wouldn't Janet seek treatment in East St. Louis area, if she was seeking treatment?

 

[carbuff]

I think Janet Tillman was probably a victim of foul play from the person whose car she entered. I have a hard time seeing a mentally ill person traveling 300 or so miles to seek treatment and in such a short space of time. Why wouldn't Janet seek treatment in East St. Louis area, if she was seeking treatment?

If he kidnapped and abused her, but left her alive in Chicago with no way to get home?

 

[Cubby]

I'm about 20 miles from Chicago and I wouldn't know where to go for mental health services in the area this jane doe was found. I would imagine an out of towner would need assistance locating this variety of services in a short amount of time. And too know of a VA hospital which offers mental health services 12 miles west of the city..... Just seems a lot for an out of towner to do without help. And if she had help, I would think someone would notice she was missing and look for her. Also, if JT was left by someone here in Chicago, why wouldn't she have contacted someone between the time she went missing and early December when we know this jane doe was still alive?

 

[carbuff]

With several names and addresses in her pocket, it sounds to me like she might have been shuffled from agency to agency with nobody to help.

As for why not call, who knows. Too embarrassed, not enough money for a long-distance call, too confused?

I don't really think it's JT. But I don't see anything clear cut to rule her out either.

 

[Cubby]

JT's Charley Project page:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tillman_janet.html

It doesn't sound like she was planning on being gone long.
East St. Louis is a really rough area with a very high crime rate and lots of deterioration.

It's possible, but I still think a long shot. There is no dna yet on the UID and dna is available for JT, so it might be just a wait for dna. Unless someone wants to contact LE working the MP case. They might be able to get Cook County to process the DNA quicker. Cook Cty has dentals, but I don't see dentals as available for JT. Though, maybe LE working the MP side can find dentals or get the info and determine whether or not it might be a possible.

 

[chaleigh26]

I wouldn't have a clue who it is. I just thought Janet Tillman might of accessed some of them services that's linked to the papers that were found. Not being familiar with the area I should have looked up the distance first as 300miles does seem a fair way to travel.

 

[carbuff]

Ordinarily I'd say it wasn't a close enough possibility to be worth submitting when DNA is on the way, but Cubby has a good point about getting the ball rolling for other potential matches.