Found Deceased IL - Jelani 'JJ' Day, 25, ISU grad student, missed class, Bloomington, 23 Aug 2021 #2

[5W's]

If she is standing next to her own attorney and he makes that hate crime statement, I'm going to conclude she is either in agreement or thinks it will get the FBI involved, or both. The same thing for the town hall interviews. There was hate crime and missing organs discussions. So many supporters have posted these claims repeatedly and nothing is ever countered and it encourages the narrative. She has not corrected or stopped anyone, when they talked about the organs, while standing next to her. Her son said they are not ruling it out (organ harvesting). Also posted all over social media, claims of organ harvesting, immediately after his disappearance, not just when the article came out, none of the family members addressed it. The links to all of the interviews are upthread, but I'll gladly repost if necessary.

I missed where she said that. Thanks. Hopefully she's changed her mind since then.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I'm new to Jelani"s thread here but from what I've read so far it doesn't seem like Jelani's mom is saying anything bad about those people. The police know who these people all are. I think the mother wants to know if these people knew Jelani. The police have probably established that they didn't know him. Mom may also want to know where exactly the location was where Jelani's items were found. Which the police would also know as these people would have led the police to there to the exact location. The exact location thing however, the police should let mom know IMO. So if she wants to see the exact place his items were found she can go look. Or even maybe give her a look at the items themselves. Mom may want to know what kind of condition the items were in. All MOO.

If you'll read all the posts that a number of us have made about this issue and the links to the interviews and statements. There is a lot of concern for the safety of the witnesses. Death threats have been made and still today, on a Jelani support page, that the family posts on, there are photos and names of three people with the caption "Turn yourself in" The family and police have seen the video, they know these people are not suspects. You need to listen to the words and tone on the "See it for yourself" tour to understand.

 

[5W's]

If she is standing next to her own attorney and he makes that hate crime statement, I'm going to conclude she is either in agreement or thinks it will get the FBI involved, or both. The same thing for the town hall interviews. There was hate crime and missing organs discussions. So many supporters have posted these claims repeatedly and nothing is ever countered and it encourages the narrative. She has not corrected or stopped anyone, when they talked about the organs, while standing next to her. Her son said they are not ruling it out (organ harvesting). Also posted all over social media, claims of organ harvesting, immediately after his disappearance, not just when the article came out, none of the family members addressed it. The links to all of the interviews are upthread, but I'll gladly repost if necessary.

I missed where she said that. Thanks. Hopefully she's changed her mind since then.

If she is standing next to her own attorney and he makes that hate crime statement, I'm going to conclude she is either in agreement or thinks it will get the FBI involved, or both. The same thing for the town hall interviews. There was hate crime and missing organs discussions. So many supporters have posted these claims repeatedly and nothing is ever countered and it encourages the narrative. She has not corrected or stopped anyone, when they talked about the organs, while standing next to her. Her son said they are not ruling it out (organ harvesting). Also posted all over social media, claims of organ harvesting, immediately after his disappearance, not just when the article came out, none of the family members addressed it. The links to all of the interviews are upthread, but I'll gladly repost if necessary.

On another note though, she didn't say it it was her lawyer. And the family doesn't think its specifically organ harvesting, plus that was said by the brother before the third autopsy so they've probably changed their mind since then. So I'm going to give them the benefit of doubt (Jelani's family.) A grieving mother could be desperate but it was the lawyer who said it.

 

[5W's]

If you'll read all the posts that a number of us have made about this issue and the links to the interviews and statements. There is a lot of concern for the safety of the witnesses. Death threats have been made and still today, on a Jelani support page, that the family posts on, there are photos and names of three people with the caption "Turn yourself in" The family and police have seen the video, they know these people are not suspects. You need to listen to the words and tone on the "See it for yourself" tour to understand.

I'm just going to stick to the facts and not go there. But thanks for the info.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I missed where she said that. Thanks. Hopefully she's changed her mind since then.

On another note though, she didn't say it it was her lawyer. And the family doesn't think its specifically organ harvesting, plus that was said by the brother before the third autopsy so they've probably changed their mind since then. So I'm going to give them the benefit of doubt (Jelani's family.) A grieving mother could be desperate but it was the lawyer who said it.

I'll give a link, I should have specified, Ben Crump is her attorney.
National civil rights attorney Ben Crump calls for an FBI investigation into the death of 25-year-old graduate student Jelani Day

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I'm just going to stick to the facts and not go there. But thanks for the info.

I might not understand what you are saying. In the actual videos of which I speak, what the speakers say might not be not facts, but it is a fact that they said it.

 

[everybodhi]

It doesn't seem anywhere that I've read that Jelani's mom wants it to be considered a hate crime. I only see a greiving mother. Jesse Jackson's statements, however, about Jelani's organs should be refuted by the publication that quoted him as the organs were decomposing in reality. MOO.

It’s interesting that the family, lawyers, and activists speaking publicly in this case have not linked it to the conspiracy theory of a serial killer involved in the multiple cases of college men who have drowned in rivers in the Midwest, including the theory of the “smiley case killers”. Supposedly, the alleged murders began in the late 1990’s.

Smiley face murder theory - Wikipedia

Some media say this serial murder theory is specific to white men, so maybe that is why?
However, young college men (sometimes after drinking and/or partaking of mind altering substances) wondering off alone and drowning is not only a Midwest or even a US phenomenon, and they aren’t all white.

Police find body in search for missing student - BBC News

Student found dead in river after going missing for 11 days

 

[SimplyCass]

It’s interesting that the family, lawyers, and activists speaking publicly in this case have not linked it to the conspiracy theory of a serial killer involved in the multiple cases of college men who have drowned in rivers in the Midwest, including the theory of the “smiley case killers”. Supposedly, the alleged murders began in the late 1990’s.

Smiley face murder theory - Wikipedia

Some media say this serial murder theory is specific to white men, so maybe that is why?

{RSSM}

The circumstances are quite different - most of the victims linked to this "smiley face serial killer" theory were last seen at a bar or a house, at night, after drinking or leaving a party; the LE conclusion was that they had accidentally drowned. JJ disappeared in the morning, had things scheduled for the day (meeting + class), and was not last seen at a bar or at a house party.

 

[everybodhi]

{RSSM}

The circumstances are quite different - most of the victims linked to this "smiley face serial killer" theory were last seen at a bar or a house, at night, after drinking or leaving a party; the LE conclusion was that they had accidentally drowned. JJ disappeared in the morning, had things scheduled for the day (meeting + class), and was not last seen at a bar or at a house party.

He was last seen at a cannabis dispensary.
ETA: not all the cases of college men who wonder off and drown have evidence of any substance use before disappearing.

 

[SimplyCass]

He was last seen at a cannabis dispensary.
ETA: not all the cases of college men who wonder off and drown have evidence of any substance use before disappearing.

Do you have a link or breakdown of all 45 cases put forward?

A lot of the Wikipedia links are broken...the news articles all tend to focus on the relatedness/common factors of young men last seen at bars, but I wonder if that's skewered or badly distorted.

 

[everybodhi]

Do you have a link or breakdown of all 45 cases put forward?

A lot of the Wikipedia links are broken...the news articles all tend to focus on the relatedness/common factors of young men last seen at bars, but I wonder if that's skewered or badly distorted.

There are allegedly over 100 cases now, I assume they have a website with the names and you could additionally research each victim’s name for the details, I’m just not that devoted to conspiracy theories. There’s also a book by “Eponymous Rox”, a self described “blogger and journalist” on Amazon.
Not surprisingly, most (but not all) were drinking which is a long standing ritual for many in college, and also not surprising, smiley face graffiti was near them which has been pervasive in pop culture, globally, for decades now.

The Smiley Face Killers Theory Has Already Been Debunked By The Authorities, But An Oxygen Series Is Still Investigating bbm

"To date, we have not developed any evidence to support links between these tragic deaths or any evidence substantiating the theory that these deaths are the work of a serial killer or killers," a statement issued by Supervisory Special Agent Richard J. Kolko of the FBI read. "The vast majority of these instances appear to be alcohol-related drownings. The FBI will continue to work with the local police in the affected areas to provide support as requested."
It's not just the FBI who took this stance. The nonprofit organization Center for Homicide Research listed 18 problems with the theory back in 2010, including the pervasiveness of smiley face graffiti and the fact that the smiley faces do not seem to match one another. And it does not appear that the FBI or many other experts have changed their opinions on the status of this theory — even though the investigators on Smiley Face Killers now state that the number of cases they believe to be involved is more than 100.

FBI Statement Regarding Midwest River Deaths

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

A never credible and debunked serial killer theory for accidental deaths is still getting attention? Do we not have enough actual serial killer cases to entertain our brains? Not to mention fictional movies and series? "Smiley Face" movie doesn't even compare to Dexter and You.
Yes, there are real-life victims of serial killers that have not been detected/linked, but sometimes the theorists and conspiracy advocates are really reaching, not looking at each case individually.
Be a devil's advocate, focus on facts, logic, and Occam's razor.
Edit to add, In my opinion, the discussion of "Smiley Face", if continued, should be moved to another thread.

 

[Seattle1]

IMO, I'd say the last MSM (Dec 13) speaks volumes about this case.

The task force -- including FBI-- provided how "Investigators believe the full cooperation of the public and Day’s close contacts may be key to understanding the facts and circumstances surrounding Day’s death," the FBI wrote.

And The mother of Jelani Day, the Illinois State University graduate student who went missing and was later found dead in the Illinois River, said the FBI's new reward for information "is a publicity stunt."

Jelani Day's Mother Calls FBI Reward, Social Media Campaign ‘a Publicity Stunt'

 

[5W's]

It’s interesting that the family, lawyers, and activists speaking publicly in this case have not linked it to the conspiracy theory of a serial killer involved in the multiple cases of college men who have drowned in rivers in the Midwest, including the theory of the “smiley case killers”. Supposedly, the alleged murders began in the late 1990’s.

Smiley face murder theory - Wikipedia

Some media say this serial murder theory is specific to white men, so maybe that is why?
However, young college men (sometimes after drinking and/or partaking of mind altering substances) wondering off alone and drowning is not only a Midwest or even a US phenomenon, and they aren’t all white.

Police find body in search for missing student - BBC News

Student found dead in river after going missing for 11 days

That's what I was thinking. I know people who think this thought or go anywhere near this subject get flak. But, its possible. A lot of people don't want to think that there are people like this around. Not only that but, would rather think about mental health because that's more palateable. I'm not saying any of this happened including a mental health crisis in Jelani's case but there should be an open mind, because who knows what really happened. If the autopsy results are inconclusive we don't know. Unless there is evedidence pointiong either way like maybe in phone records then who knows. Jelani was successful so the jealousy aspect is there. At one time Jelani was working with people in a clinic who came in for counselling. He was a kind man so maybe he let someone get close to him out of the kindness of his heart and something nefarious happened. That's what worries me, I think there is a strong possibility for that. MOO. All is MOO.

 

[5W's]

I might not understand what you are saying. In the actual videos of which I speak, what the speakers say might not be not facts, but it is a fact that they said it.

I'm thinking timeline. People may say things before they know the reality of the situation. So its possible it happened here with this family.

 

[5W's]

I'll give a link, I should have specified, Ben Crump is her attorney.
National civil rights attorney Ben Crump calls for an FBI investigation into the death of 25-year-old graduate student Jelani Day

Thanks for the article and I see its dated December 5th. One thing I would like to say is it is possible that the family because of all the Social media nastiness that occurred could have become afraid that this is what happened. Nastiness meaning people who are the family's well wishers getting involved in possible discussions on Social media wih people who have a differing opinion and taking things out of context and now this what we are left with. IMO it was the well wishers who got this poor family into this pattern of thought. It was probably not even intentional. But social media won and took on a life of its own. Exremely sad. Facts are the only thing that should matter.

 

[5W's]

If you'll read all the posts that a number of us have made about this issue and the links to the interviews and statements. There is a lot of concern for the safety of the witnesses. Death threats have been made and still today, on a Jelani support page, that the family posts on, there are photos and names of three people with the caption "Turn yourself in" The family and police have seen the video, they know these people are not suspects. You need to listen to the words and tone on the "See it for yourself" tour to understand.

Like I said its sad. I feel for the witnesses. Its gotten so out of hand. It started out with a grieving mother and family and its turned into what wer're seeing. I myself will not go with the nastiness but keep an open mind and see a grieving mom and family at the heart of the tragedy. What they are saying is spawned by the nastiness on Social media that they've encountered also. But the witnesses unfortunately may now need 24/7 police protection. Its all so sad. MOO.

 

[5W's]

If she is standing next to her own attorney and he makes that hate crime statement, I'm going to conclude she is either in agreement or thinks it will get the FBI involved, or both. The same thing for the town hall interviews. There was hate crime and missing organs discussions. So many supporters have posted these claims repeatedly and nothing is ever countered and it encourages the narrative. She has not corrected or stopped anyone, when they talked about the organs, while standing next to her. Her son said they are not ruling it out (organ harvesting). Also posted all over social media, claims of organ harvesting, immediately after his disappearance, not just when the article came out, none of the family members addressed it. The links to all of the interviews are upthread, but I'll gladly repost if necessary.

Thanks. All I can say, is always have an open mind. I won't let the family's statements alow me to be swayed. I will look at it from the aspect of the facts that were uncovered from the investigation by LE. Afterall LE has access to equipment that the average person doesn't have based on that we can make up our minds.

 

[5W's]

Only, I suppose it's possible it wasn't as random as losing a mattress off a truck, going back to pick it up, and then finding a phone. I think the narrative may change when it's reported what this random does for work.

And more, the area where the phone was easily found was an area Jelani's mom requested to be searched, and apparently never was, according to the previously posted interview.

So again, I suppose if you fall into the suicide camp, this is just another instance of Jelani disposing of his belongings before putting himself in the water. But, if you're leaning towards homicide, then this is someone concealing a crime.

DNA tests from the car, any highway video footage they've pulled, and phone records should bring some clarity to both camps. In the meantime, we're still just speculating and watching a mother work relentlessly (under some judgement) to find out what happened to her son. I suppose she gets the same freedom to speculate until there are more facts released.

Until some clarity happens there is only speculation on the mother's part as well. However I wonder if she would be privy to knowledge we don't have from LE. Although, sadly after the Social media mess that has happened maybe not. Some things are surfacing like the phone being found and the location of where it was found. Maybe other developments will happen and so forth.

 

[5W's]

I take issue with the phrasing "suicide camp." Looking at the released evidence, seeing as nothing (so far) indicates a third party was involved, I just don't see a homicide/murder here. Yet.

The self-harm theory has holes/reaching, sure. But are you suggesting that a criminal/crime in progress would have resulted in JJ turning his phone off with the belongings/body/potential crime scene being 60 miles away?

I disagree that she has the same freedom to speculate as we do. She has a platform, and is fueling/spreading incredibly dangerous speculation on the FB Justice for Jelani page. She literally posted a screenshot of the guy's profile (regarding JJ's phone) asking for people to find him so she can talk to them. Someone is sending explicit threats to the Beyond/Hello dispensary employees alleging they are involved with JJ's death. If she hasn't already, she should denounce the threats of violence and doxxing, as it's discouraging anyone from coming forward and fueling into a vigilante witch hunt.

Why would the guy who found it lie about where he found it?
He took it to Walmart and had to ID himself with legal ID in order to turn it in and get some $$ for it.
The police were able to locate him to question him.

Not saying the individual who found the phone was but sometimes people are desperate for cash. So they would risk the ID. Although its good that the person was ID'd. It could also be that the person who found it didn't want to say where it was actually found. That in my mind is concerning. What if it was a location where many random and unsavoury people gather and the finder didn't want to be linked to that location because they may now be a potential witness to a possible crime. But finding the phone and turning it in meant cash. I wouldn't discount this either. That person may be afraid to say what the location was due to the Social media mess and poentially a winess to an actual criminal event by being in the same location. MOO.