GUILTY IL - Katrina Smith, 30, beaten to death, Machesney Park, 23 Oct 2012 - #1

[scadder21]

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/illegal-search-and-seizure-faqs.html


im not knox but this has a lot of info...

Doesn't change the fact that often people will let LE search the house especially if it will clear there name and help find the killer. Think the House to house search in the Jessica Ridgeway case. Let's say hypothetically that they could have found something in his house that could have lead the police to the person who kidnapped Katrina. Why would TS make the cops get a search warrant and waste a precious week.

For all we know someone that TS owed money could have kidnapped her as revenge.

 

[winningx3]

Also location, South Main is very ruff, if one is trying to lead LE to think random.... perfect place to pitch it. West side, auburn/kilburn, would be too close. I'm honestly surprised someone turned it in.

I agree about south main. It used to be gang area I think. I'm not sure where the gang activity is now do you?

 

[TGIRecovered]

Can you provide a source for your statement that LE almost always gets a warrant even if given permission to search? I can't find that anywhere.

I can confirm that from my experience following cases that I've come to expect LE to get a warrant before doing a search in cases such as this, especially if they suspect that something important might be found in the search. It gives defense lawyers one less thing to whine about when it comes to trial. It seems to me that smaller pd's aren't always as careful about this and sometimes it comes back to bite them in the butt. Too easy for a homeowner to claim they were intimidated or did not understand their right to refuse.

MOO

 

[nervous_nellie]

Doesn't change the fact that often people will let LE search the house especially if it will clear there name and help find the killer. Think the House to house search in the Jessica Ridgeway case. Let's say hypothetically that they could have found something in his house that could have lead the police to the person who kidnapped Katrina. Why would TS make the cops get a search warrant and waste a precious week.

For all we know someone that TS owed money could have kidnapped her as revenge.

true..but generally obtaining a sw protects all the evidence gathered from being tossed out when they get to court. to not get a sw because someone lets them search can go bad when that someone changes their mind about having let them search ... its just good business to just get the sw for protection...moo

 

[scadder21]

true..but generally obtaining a sw protects all the evidence gathered from being tossed out when they get to court. to not get a sw because someone lets them search can go bad when that someone changes their mind about having let them search ... its just good business to just get the sw for protection...moo

I get your point now, if they suspect someone they will get a SW so that the suspect can't claim later that it was an unwarranted search thus found evidence to prosecute them shouldn't be counted in court. That said I'm assuming that they asked the husband early to look around and it seems like he said no for a week.

 

[HeinekenMan]

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/illegal-search-and-seizure-faqs.html


im not knox but this has a lot of info...

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/illegal-search-and-seizure-faqs.html

THE EXCLUSIONARY RULE

Courts ordinarily suppress evidence obtained during an unreasonable search or seizure and offered against the accused. See Mapp v. Ohio, 367 U.S. 643 (1961). This rule, known as the exclusionary rule, applies equally to both the investigatory and accusatory stages of a criminal prosecution.

The exclusionary rule applies to unreasonable searches. It cannot be an unreasonable search if the person grants permission for the search. I'm just wondering if Knox works in law enforcement and has first-hand experience of how rarely a search is conducted before a warrant is obtained. And what happens if the person grants permission but a warrant is not granted? If police didn't have enough evidence, that might have been the situation with this case. Then again, the only reason I wonder is that I am trying to determine whether the husband was asked if LE could and if he agreed or denied them.

 

[nervous_nellie]

well, during all the kerfuffle over on the fb this morning about the search warrant the family said that ts did let them in the house last week but they were only there for a short time...fwiw...moo

 

[nervous_nellie]

since they got the sw apparently they did have enough evidence ...

 

[mama2one]

I can't seem to find it now, but on WIFR fb page, TS bestfriend commented that LE DID search the house on day one. Maybe removed now, he was arguing with someone under a update on Katrina.

 

[scadder21]

TS also stated that they weren't seperated, when detectives again are saying they were. They were there over 8 hours today so they probably found a lot of stuff.

 

[HeinekenMan]

I can imagine LE doing a cursory look around a home. At that point, they likely don't know what's up. And they are just taking a quick glance. From what others are saying, they would go ahead and obtain the search warrant if they feel that there is valuable prosecutorial evidence in the home.

 

[mama2one]

I agree about south main. It used to be gang area I think. I'm not sure where the gang activity is now do you?

I've been out of the area for 5 or 6 years now, but from what I hear from friends& family, the West & South sides of Rfkd are still invested with gangs. Sadly, moving more East every day. Is Beloit still pretty safe? I mean from the condo location, that's only 10-15 mins into Wisconsin.

 

[nervous_nellie]

TS also stated that they weren't seperated, when detectives again are saying they were. They were there over 8 hours today so they probably found a lot of stuff.

or they are just being thorough ... that gives me confidence that they are looking for her. if he didnt do this then he will be cleared and we can move on to looking for the perp somewhere else.

 

[nervous_nellie]

I can imagine LE doing a cursory look around a home. At that point, they likely don't know what's up. And they are just taking a quick glance. From what others are saying, they would go ahead and obtain the search warrant if they feel that there is valuable prosecutorial evidence in the home.

yeah..normal and it would have been totally suspicious to deny access on day 1..lol..

 

[winningx3]

I've been out of the area for 5 or 6 years now, but from what I hear from friends& family, the West & South sides of Rfkd are still invested with gangs. Sadly, moving more East every day. Is Beloit still pretty safe? I mean from the condo location, that's only 10-15 mins into Wisconsin.

I'm also out of the area now, but I believe Beloit has some very rough areas now too.

 

[nervous_nellie]

i hate to even type this, but have they checked the land fill?

 

[katydid23]

I can confirm that from my experience following cases that I've come to expect LE to get a warrant before doing a search in cases such as this, especially if they suspect that something important might be found in the search. It gives defense lawyers one less thing to whine about when it comes to trial. It seems to me that smaller pd's aren't always as careful about this and sometimes it comes back to bite them in the butt. Too easy for a homeowner to claim they were intimidated or did not understand their right to refuse.

MOO

I agree with you. This is what I have learned from past cases of missing people. When a search first begins, LE will go to the home of the missing person OR the home of their ex. In the initial hours, LE is legally allowed to do a quick 'walk through' of the home and look in the car. But they cannot do in depth searches, or look in computers or take the cells, without a warrant. If they see something, like a newly dug trench or freshly painted walls, they can get an immediate warrant. But the initial search is allowed just to clear the premises. Because it is possible the person killed themselves and died in the garage or was accidentally stuck somewhere or something. The initial search is just to make sure they are not actually present and there is not an obvious crime scene.

Even if the ex gives their permission for the search, LE will still want to get a warrant. Otherwise they might lose evidence in an appeal if the ex says they didn't understand what they were consenting to.

ETA: In the case of a missing teen, LE usually goes ahead and looks at the computers and the cell records because they do not assume the parents are potential suspects, like they might with an ex or a spouse.

 

[Knox]

Can you provide a source for your statement that LE almost always gets a warrant even if given permission to search? I can't find that anywhere.

Off the top of my head, the Isabel Celis case. The family gave permission to search their home and cars, but TPD got warrants anyway.

Beyond the obvious reason of what a defense attorney can later say at trial regarding evidence seized in a consent search. Or what a DA advises when working with LE in the early stages of an investigation. Why risk jeopardizing potential evidence?

Maybe I can get Gitana1 or AZLaywer to pop in and explain it to you.

 

[Knox]

The exclusionary rule applies to unreasonable searches. It cannot be an unreasonable search if the person grants permission for the search. I'm just wondering if Knox works in law enforcement and has first-hand experience of how rarely a search is conducted before a warrant is obtained. And what happens if the person grants permission but a warrant is not granted? If police didn't have enough evidence, that might have been the situation with this case. Then again, the only reason I wonder is that I am trying to determine whether the husband was asked if LE could and if he agreed or denied them.

No I'm not in LE, but have spend some time reading appeal cases. How about I say IMO, does that work for you?

 

[Knox]

I can confirm that from my experience following cases that I've come to expect LE to get a warrant before doing a search in cases such as this, especially if they suspect that something important might be found in the search. It gives defense lawyers one less thing to whine about when it comes to trial. It seems to me that smaller pd's aren't always as careful about this and sometimes it comes back to bite them in the butt. Too easy for a homeowner to claim they were intimidated or did not understand their right to refuse.

MOO

http://le.alcoda.org/publications/files/CONSENTSEARCHES.pdf