You’d think the beads would make him stick out like a sore thumb. I rarely see grown men wearing them. Most of the people I see with colored beads in their braids are young girls. All this is part of why I don't think this guy was local. Probably in town visiting is my theory.Imo, someone certainly carefully styled the perp's hair and that person no doubt knows who he is, they would recognize their own handiwork and the bead choice.
Maybe since nobody has spoken up as far as we know, a family member did it for him?
Thinking LE should publish his sketch with the emphasis on his hair in hair-styling mags and other AA hair styling places nation-wide.
Getting a bit of a Jesse Matthews type vibe (without the sexual violence)..
speculation, imo.
WTVR.com
The disturbing timeline of Jesse Matthew's sexual violence
IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008
- Thread starter SuziQ
- Start date
I never understood the beads either. Does not make sense to wear something that will make you stand out, unless the plan was to kill everyone all along. I had the suspicion of Jesse Matthew at one time as well but I do not believe he was ever in Chicago area. I never read anywhere that he lived anywhere near there.
No, not JM, just the "essence" of him somehow, wonder if the shooter in this case also played football?
speculation.imo.
I remember hearing about this the day it happened. IL is my home state and I also shop at LB frequently, so I instantly kind of felt a connection to this case. I just searched out the WS thread for it today, however. A few thoughts:
-I remember reading on here but now can't find it that another woman had come forward saying she walked up to the door that morning but decided not to go in. What time was that? Would it have been during the period of time when the two mystery cars were parked out front? I'm also curious what caused her to not go in. Just decided she didn't have time/didn't want to spend money or did she have a gut feeling that something was off?
-I feel like this perp had to be in the store before this morning to case it. It's odd to me that LB didn't have any internal cameras. I have worked several retail jobs at other stores and every one had at least one internal camera pointing at the register. I'm sharing this to say it seems uncommon (at least in my experience) and could be why he picked this place, but would he have just showed up not knowing if they had cameras or not? I feel like he had been in the store before, but of course, his appearance may have been different, and if the store was busy, he may not have even interacted with any store employee to remember him at all. I am curious if he also cased other stores for a robbery that DID have cameras, and if by chance, he was caught on someone else's camera in the days or weeks leading up to this.
-I had always wondered why he was in the store so long, but this site seems to offer an explanation: The Lane Bryant Shooting — Unresolved. It sounds like he had been chatting with the two employees for a bit before brandishing the weapon. What was the reason for chatting? Was he hoping giving it more time would allow more customers to enter, and therefore, more people to rob? And at some point, he decided to just go ahead and start the hold up? This is really odd to me. Not many store robbers come in and chat up the employees first. They usually get in and get out with what they want. The longer they are there, the longer something can go wrong or them get caught.
-To go along with that, and I apologize if this was stated and I missed it, do we know what time the call was placed by the manager to the other LB store to inquire about the delivery and how long that call lasted? Did the perp follow her back to make this call or stay out in the store area? I am wondering if she immediately knew something was off, but if she really felt it was off, my thought is she'd be dialing 911 instead of another LB store. So I don't know. What delivery company was he supposedly working for? I have not ever seen a Fed Ex, UPS, or DHL delivery person without a company shirt or uniform on. Also where was his delivery vehicle? (I know, of course, he was NOT really a delivery person, but just pointing out the ways in which his ruse doesn't even make sense). Most of the time, delivery people pull right up out front, hop out, make the delivery and are on their way because they have lots of deliveries to make. Now if he was trying to say it was a bigger delivery and he'd be taking things in the back door, why would someone park out back, and walk ALL The way around to the front door? Seems if you need someone to unlock that back door, you'd just pull up out front, come in, talk to them, and then drive around back. I'm saying all this to say that his story was not even good, and I wonder how suspicious the two store employees were and if they immediately sensed something was off. OR is this truly how deliveries happened there, meaning he had been watching the store for awhile to learn this procedure?
-I still am not convinced this was just a robbery. I mean, even if his plan was to stay there for hours robbing women as they came in and taking them hostage, that seems very risky and dumb, and also, how many people really carry a ton of cash on them? Or wear a ton of expensive jewelry? At most, he might get some wedding rings or diamond necklaces, I'd think. The risk doesn't seem worth the reward. And if that was the plan, were these two possible getaway cars just going to hang out in the parking lot all day? Seems like that would be risking somebody calling the cops on suspicious vehicles loitering for hours on end. But yet these two cars showed up exactly when they'd be needed to get him out of there before cops arrived, so I have to assume they were involved. And they had to be close by to show up at a moment's notice when perhaps he communicated with them. So maybe a day-long robbery was not his plan all along. Which brings me back to this possibly being a targeted attack. Just because no connection has been found so far doesn't mean there isn't one. He also could have possibly been hired by someone to carry this out. To me, if that is the case, the person we'd be looking at connections for is "Martha." She's the only person who was scheduled to be there that morning, and she had been scheduled to open the store alone. It is stated she only worked weekends, so maybe she opened it alone EVERY Saturday and people in her life would have known that. The manager showed up unscheduled. I doubt that any of the customers would have told a bunch of people in their lives they were going to be at LB at 10 AM on a Saturday. Additionally, maybe there typically were not customers that early in the store but because there was a sale going on, there were a few that day. If "Martha" had been the target, maybe she even told people in her life just conversationally that opening was boring because she seldom had customers for a long while or the first hour or whatever. And if that's the case, maybe he was thrown off when he showed up and saw not only the manager who wasn't supposed to be there, but other customers. Perhaps he was chatting hoping the customers would LEAVE but they didn't and others entered, so he decided to just go ahead with it.
Now that I've written a novel (ha!). But just wanted to get some thoughts out and keep this thread active. Hoping this gets solved and it seems there HAS to be people out there that know this guy. The 3D sketch is REALLY good. People have to recognize him, right? This is so weird.
-I remember reading on here but now can't find it that another woman had come forward saying she walked up to the door that morning but decided not to go in. What time was that? Would it have been during the period of time when the two mystery cars were parked out front? I'm also curious what caused her to not go in. Just decided she didn't have time/didn't want to spend money or did she have a gut feeling that something was off?
-I feel like this perp had to be in the store before this morning to case it. It's odd to me that LB didn't have any internal cameras. I have worked several retail jobs at other stores and every one had at least one internal camera pointing at the register. I'm sharing this to say it seems uncommon (at least in my experience) and could be why he picked this place, but would he have just showed up not knowing if they had cameras or not? I feel like he had been in the store before, but of course, his appearance may have been different, and if the store was busy, he may not have even interacted with any store employee to remember him at all. I am curious if he also cased other stores for a robbery that DID have cameras, and if by chance, he was caught on someone else's camera in the days or weeks leading up to this.
-I had always wondered why he was in the store so long, but this site seems to offer an explanation: The Lane Bryant Shooting — Unresolved. It sounds like he had been chatting with the two employees for a bit before brandishing the weapon. What was the reason for chatting? Was he hoping giving it more time would allow more customers to enter, and therefore, more people to rob? And at some point, he decided to just go ahead and start the hold up? This is really odd to me. Not many store robbers come in and chat up the employees first. They usually get in and get out with what they want. The longer they are there, the longer something can go wrong or them get caught.
-To go along with that, and I apologize if this was stated and I missed it, do we know what time the call was placed by the manager to the other LB store to inquire about the delivery and how long that call lasted? Did the perp follow her back to make this call or stay out in the store area? I am wondering if she immediately knew something was off, but if she really felt it was off, my thought is she'd be dialing 911 instead of another LB store. So I don't know. What delivery company was he supposedly working for? I have not ever seen a Fed Ex, UPS, or DHL delivery person without a company shirt or uniform on. Also where was his delivery vehicle? (I know, of course, he was NOT really a delivery person, but just pointing out the ways in which his ruse doesn't even make sense). Most of the time, delivery people pull right up out front, hop out, make the delivery and are on their way because they have lots of deliveries to make. Now if he was trying to say it was a bigger delivery and he'd be taking things in the back door, why would someone park out back, and walk ALL The way around to the front door? Seems if you need someone to unlock that back door, you'd just pull up out front, come in, talk to them, and then drive around back. I'm saying all this to say that his story was not even good, and I wonder how suspicious the two store employees were and if they immediately sensed something was off. OR is this truly how deliveries happened there, meaning he had been watching the store for awhile to learn this procedure?
-I still am not convinced this was just a robbery. I mean, even if his plan was to stay there for hours robbing women as they came in and taking them hostage, that seems very risky and dumb, and also, how many people really carry a ton of cash on them? Or wear a ton of expensive jewelry? At most, he might get some wedding rings or diamond necklaces, I'd think. The risk doesn't seem worth the reward. And if that was the plan, were these two possible getaway cars just going to hang out in the parking lot all day? Seems like that would be risking somebody calling the cops on suspicious vehicles loitering for hours on end. But yet these two cars showed up exactly when they'd be needed to get him out of there before cops arrived, so I have to assume they were involved. And they had to be close by to show up at a moment's notice when perhaps he communicated with them. So maybe a day-long robbery was not his plan all along. Which brings me back to this possibly being a targeted attack. Just because no connection has been found so far doesn't mean there isn't one. He also could have possibly been hired by someone to carry this out. To me, if that is the case, the person we'd be looking at connections for is "Martha." She's the only person who was scheduled to be there that morning, and she had been scheduled to open the store alone. It is stated she only worked weekends, so maybe she opened it alone EVERY Saturday and people in her life would have known that. The manager showed up unscheduled. I doubt that any of the customers would have told a bunch of people in their lives they were going to be at LB at 10 AM on a Saturday. Additionally, maybe there typically were not customers that early in the store but because there was a sale going on, there were a few that day. If "Martha" had been the target, maybe she even told people in her life just conversationally that opening was boring because she seldom had customers for a long while or the first hour or whatever. And if that's the case, maybe he was thrown off when he showed up and saw not only the manager who wasn't supposed to be there, but other customers. Perhaps he was chatting hoping the customers would LEAVE but they didn't and others entered, so he decided to just go ahead with it.
Now that I've written a novel (ha!). But just wanted to get some thoughts out and keep this thread active. Hoping this gets solved and it seems there HAS to be people out there that know this guy. The 3D sketch is REALLY good. People have to recognize him, right? This is so weird.
The perp could be described as heavy-set, could that have influenced his choice of stores for some freaky reason, considering that the store targeted was for "bigger women, could it just be because it is a woman's store, was he familiar with the store because his mother is a larger woman who shopped/ worked there, did the perp wish he could shop there"?
speculation, imo.
Photo credit: Tinley Park Police
10 Worst Unsolved Mass Murders In US History - Listverse
"Lane Bryant is known as a popular clothing store for bigger women. In the usually quiet Chicago suburb of Tinley Park, one Lane Bryant store became infamous for a senseless shooting rampage that occurred on February 2, 2008.
Before 10:45 AM, four customers, the store’s manager, and a part-time employee were taken to the back of the Lane Bryant store located at the Brookside Marketplace shopping mall. The victims were 37-year-old Connie R. Woolfolk of Flossmoor, Illinois; 22-year-old Sarah Szafranski of Oak Forest; 42-year-old store manager Rhonda McFarland of Joliet; 33-year-old Carrie Hudek Chiuso of Frankfort; and 34-year-old Jennifer Bishop of South Bend, Indiana. The sixth woman was also held captive but managed to survive. Police have never revealed her name.[3] The unidentified killer used duct tape to tie up his victims before shooting them execution-style.
Investigators deduced that the attack had been part of a robbery, and the attacker had opened fire after McFarland managed to call 911. Police even managed to obtain the killer’s voice on the emergency phone call. Furthermore, on February 11, 2008, a composite sketch of the killer was released showing a young black male with tight and thick cornrows. A 3-D-enhanced version of this sketch was released in February 2018."
speculation, imo.
Photo credit: Tinley Park Police
10 Worst Unsolved Mass Murders In US History - Listverse
"Lane Bryant is known as a popular clothing store for bigger women. In the usually quiet Chicago suburb of Tinley Park, one Lane Bryant store became infamous for a senseless shooting rampage that occurred on February 2, 2008.
Before 10:45 AM, four customers, the store’s manager, and a part-time employee were taken to the back of the Lane Bryant store located at the Brookside Marketplace shopping mall. The victims were 37-year-old Connie R. Woolfolk of Flossmoor, Illinois; 22-year-old Sarah Szafranski of Oak Forest; 42-year-old store manager Rhonda McFarland of Joliet; 33-year-old Carrie Hudek Chiuso of Frankfort; and 34-year-old Jennifer Bishop of South Bend, Indiana. The sixth woman was also held captive but managed to survive. Police have never revealed her name.[3] The unidentified killer used duct tape to tie up his victims before shooting them execution-style.
Investigators deduced that the attack had been part of a robbery, and the attacker had opened fire after McFarland managed to call 911. Police even managed to obtain the killer’s voice on the emergency phone call. Furthermore, on February 11, 2008, a composite sketch of the killer was released showing a young black male with tight and thick cornrows. A 3-D-enhanced version of this sketch was released in February 2018."
I do recall the story of the woman who decided not to go in the store. She did say she just decided she did not want to go in and that she did not notice anything out of the ordinary when she looked in. Yes Martha was supposed to open by herself that morning and I do believe she was surprised to see RM that morning, but I think this was coincidental.
He may have been in the store before but I would think at least one employee would have remembered seeing him in the store and recalled someone matching that description.
I think he was talking to Martha to buy time to ensure there were no cameras. He might have been waiting for the customers to leave but he had to think that being the store was open that more customers were bound to come in. I also think the confrontation with CW added to the time he spent there. I believe the two cars out front were accomplices and most likely spotters/getaway drivers. When they saw the cops, they went in to tell him they needed to get out of dodge.
He may have been in the store before but I would think at least one employee would have remembered seeing him in the store and recalled someone matching that description.
I think he was talking to Martha to buy time to ensure there were no cameras. He might have been waiting for the customers to leave but he had to think that being the store was open that more customers were bound to come in. I also think the confrontation with CW added to the time he spent there. I believe the two cars out front were accomplices and most likely spotters/getaway drivers. When they saw the cops, they went in to tell him they needed to get out of dodge.
Re: him casing the store before. I have not been to this LB but I have frequented several others. There are times that it’s been very busy in the store and they have only had a couple employees working. Several times I’ve walked in to look around and no employee greeted me or interacted with me at all due to them ringing up people and opening fitting rooms, etc. I think if he cases the place on a day that was really busy, it’s possible no employee actually saw him. Just MOO
This is my experience from working at another retailer. As far as the delivery goes, one arriving on a Saturday is the biggest red flag to me. Stores typically get merchandise delivered on slow days during the week plus they are expecting the delivery. Even if his papers looked legit, the manager would have been alarmed since she wasn’t expecting the delivery. The only thing that the Ups/fed ex type of driver delivered was small packages such as signage. They didn’t bring our merchandise.
Being the honest, nice and trusting person that RM was, she probably didn't think anything too out of the ordinary. At the worst she probably found it odd that a delivery person would show up on a Saturday morning, but she never in a million years would have thought this guy was anything more than someone who made a mistake and came to the wrong store. It's unfortunate that it takes a tragedy like this to make people more vigilant.
FinePrint
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I'm still just waiting around I guess, still thinking about this often especially this time of year....Lets see what happens in February. Will LE give out some more details or will it be quiet like last years anniversary....I had reason for hope in this case last summer but obviously that didn't pan out.
Although i came late to this story and thread, this case keeps scratching at the back of my head, hoping that more details might be revealed (hope they have more!) on the Feb 2 anniversary.
If robbery was the motive, wondering if only cash was taken (how much?) or were items like store merchandise and/or, the victim's personal belongings too?
Guess what i am trying to figure out is if robbery was the prime motivation for the murders, or did this guy really want to kill some women and the robbery just a "bonus"?
There has never been mention of sexual assault in this case that i can recall, but wondering if that is hold-back evidence?
Does the perp seem like someone new to the US, could he be someone who enters a country to commit crime from time to time, then go back home?
speculation, imo.
Last year was the first anniversary where there was no news articles about the case. Maybe because 11 is an odd number, I don't know. I expect some news articles and hopefully some new info and not the same old "this case will be solved one day" speech we've been hearing. It would be nice to have a tv show, maybe People Magazine Investigates, profile this case and get some national attention.
Last year we had the polar vortex hit on the anniversary. I hope that is the reason there weren’t any stories. At this point I feel like releasing more info can’t hurt anything. I’d love to see more coverage. I feel like I’ve exhausted angles.
IceIce9
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I keep thinking about his appearance, the braided hair with beads is so unusual for an an adult male. Could he have purposely selected that hairstyle for the day of the crime only, to throw LE off as they would be looking for someone fitting that description?
I confess that I don’t know much about men’s hairstyles but I assume men could get hair extensions then remove them directly after the crime?
I don’t know if it is possible for a person to do their own hair extensions, but if not that would mean someone else would have knowledge. Like a girlfriend or one of the accomplices.
If he didn’t normally wear braids and beads then anyone knowing him wouldn’t think of him when hearing the description.
The crime seems too well planned to be just a robbery. And there would be better places to rob, even in the general vicinity.
I confess that I don’t know much about men’s hairstyles but I assume men could get hair extensions then remove them directly after the crime?
I don’t know if it is possible for a person to do their own hair extensions, but if not that would mean someone else would have knowledge. Like a girlfriend or one of the accomplices.
If he didn’t normally wear braids and beads then anyone knowing him wouldn’t think of him when hearing the description.
The crime seems too well planned to be just a robbery. And there would be better places to rob, even in the general vicinity.
Funny, for some illogical reason one of the other store massacres had reminded of this case and yet there is no particular reason for it, other than a number of shoppers were gunned down, it even happened in a country far away.
Had been looking for an reason to post about it, but there is no reason to, other than the case has been compiled along with the Lane Bryant murders.
FWIW, complete speculation, imo. rbbm.
13 of the scariest crimes to ever hit the world of retail
"Gunfire erupted in the parking lot of Nairobi's Westgate mall on September 21, 2013, but that was just the beginning. At least four masked Al-Shabaab militants would besiege the upscale shopping center for the next four days".
From the same article..
Five women were murdered in a Chicago area Lane Bryant clothing store in 2008
"The man claimed to be a delivery driver, but he had arrived at the Lane Bryant in Tinley Park, Illinois, on the morning of February 2, 2008 with a far darker mission in mind.
According to true crime podcast Already Gone, as store manager Rhoda McFarland, 42, attempted to figure out what exactly the stranger was delivering, he pulled out a gun. He announced that he was robbing the store, which was already open and filled with a handful of shopers.
He then forced customers Connie Woolfolk, 37, Sarah Szafranski, 22, Carrie Hudek Chiuso, 33, and Jennifer Bishop, 34, to the back of the store, the Chicago Tribune reported. Also among the hostages were McFarland and a part-time Lane Bryant employee.
After binding the women with duct tape and rifling through their purses and wallets, the man began robbing the store. McFarland managed to call 911 on her Bluetooth earpiece. The man can be heard yelling on the call's audio.
Police arrived at the scene within a minute of the call, but it was already too late. After terrorizing his hostages for about 40 minutes, the Chicago Tribune reported that the man had shot and killed everyone in the store with a .40-caliber Glock, with the exception of the part-time worker. That employee survived her injuries, according to NPR.
Police request that tipsters call 708-444-5394 or email lanebryant.tipline@tinleypark.org."
Had been looking for an reason to post about it, but there is no reason to, other than the case has been compiled along with the Lane Bryant murders.
FWIW, complete speculation, imo. rbbm.
13 of the scariest crimes to ever hit the world of retail
"Gunfire erupted in the parking lot of Nairobi's Westgate mall on September 21, 2013, but that was just the beginning. At least four masked Al-Shabaab militants would besiege the upscale shopping center for the next four days".
From the same article..
Five women were murdered in a Chicago area Lane Bryant clothing store in 2008
"The man claimed to be a delivery driver, but he had arrived at the Lane Bryant in Tinley Park, Illinois, on the morning of February 2, 2008 with a far darker mission in mind.
According to true crime podcast Already Gone, as store manager Rhoda McFarland, 42, attempted to figure out what exactly the stranger was delivering, he pulled out a gun. He announced that he was robbing the store, which was already open and filled with a handful of shopers.
He then forced customers Connie Woolfolk, 37, Sarah Szafranski, 22, Carrie Hudek Chiuso, 33, and Jennifer Bishop, 34, to the back of the store, the Chicago Tribune reported. Also among the hostages were McFarland and a part-time Lane Bryant employee.
After binding the women with duct tape and rifling through their purses and wallets, the man began robbing the store. McFarland managed to call 911 on her Bluetooth earpiece. The man can be heard yelling on the call's audio.
Police arrived at the scene within a minute of the call, but it was already too late. After terrorizing his hostages for about 40 minutes, the Chicago Tribune reported that the man had shot and killed everyone in the store with a .40-caliber Glock, with the exception of the part-time worker. That employee survived her injuries, according to NPR.
Police request that tipsters call 708-444-5394 or email lanebryant.tipline@tinleypark.org."
FinePrint
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I think he got like $200 from the store and some money and jewelry from the victims as well. As far as SA, LE is a little wiggy on information for this but said there is evidence that he may have molested one of the women and I assume it was the one women (Ms Woolfolk) who did fight back. She had bruising when her body was returned to the family for funeral.
The 911 audio is pretty good in this one where perp's voice is heard.
Do you recognize the male voice on the call? If so, please call Tinley Park Police (708) 444-5394
Feb 1 2018 rbbm.
Lane Bryant Mass Murder: 10 hard years
"Throughout the past decade, more than 7,300 tips and leads have been investigated. Police say there is no certain motive, even though some money was taken from the store and one victim was fondled."
VIDEO BELOW..
The Vidocq Society analyzed the Lane Bryant murder case and offered suggestions."
"Detectives traveled to Philadelphia to present the case in front of the Vidocq Society. The exclusive group is made up of current and retired law enforcement agents, forensic experts and psychologists. William Fleisher is one of the founding members of this elite criminal justice group that claims to have helped solve about forty percent of the cases that are investigated."
The Lane Bryant Murders - Criminology - Omny.fm
Another podcast on the case. Interesting listening but no new information. Seems some inconsistencies in the time line they give and the timeline we have been discussing.
Another podcast on the case. Interesting listening but no new information. Seems some inconsistencies in the time line they give and the timeline we have been discussing.
Random thoughts..
Thinking about the way the perp commands one of the woman to "cover that head", like he has already dehumanized the women.
Most people would say "cover your head" not "that head"
The perp's facial features as depicted in the sketch do not seem particularly strong, could he be of mixed ethnicity/race, such as Asian or Latin?
Maybe the perp is actually wearing a wig or a weave?
Wondering if he has a connection to a hair-styling/wig business, perhaps through a female member of his family, is it possible that one or more of the victims was a client?
Perhaps whichever woman he fondled, is someone known to him, but not the other way around?
speculation, imo.
Thinking about the way the perp commands one of the woman to "cover that head", like he has already dehumanized the women.
Most people would say "cover your head" not "that head"
The perp's facial features as depicted in the sketch do not seem particularly strong, could he be of mixed ethnicity/race, such as Asian or Latin?
Maybe the perp is actually wearing a wig or a weave?
Wondering if he has a connection to a hair-styling/wig business, perhaps through a female member of his family, is it possible that one or more of the victims was a client?
Perhaps whichever woman he fondled, is someone known to him, but not the other way around?
speculation, imo.
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