IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

[flgrl017]

Complete speculation, imo, fwiw.
Cannot recall if they ever said which woman was fondled, but it would take a certain kind of hold-up robber to do that before shooting to kill.
Each of the women had their faces covered with underwear, possibly because those items were nearby and handy, but maybe it is a manifestation of some other sexual kink?
The underwear would (sorry) presumably become bloodied .....

Wondering if this guy will be found somewhere deep in the perve files?

I believe it was CW. She was the one that was roughed up anyways.

 

[flgrl017]

I am listening to the podcast. I will say that that ramp directly behind the store puts you going south on Harlem. I believe 100% that if he parked on that ramp and jumped that fence people would have noticed. It’s a very busy ramp. I would even say the back of the store is more visible than the the front of the building especially giving the snow piles.
I personally think he knew the shopping center. I shop here and know it well. It would be very hard to get in and out of this shopping center and area in general without knowing it well. I think he used marketplace dr to exit the shopping center. Marketplace doesn’t have as much traffic plus there isn’t a light. I think he took a right on 191st and took it to Lagrange where he took a right. He could then get on I80.
The hosts are right. This is a very strange location to pick for this type of crime. You’re so boxed in back there. Plus the back of the building is next to a busy ramp. You’d think he would have picked a strip mall that had more privacy in the back and was easier to get in and out of.

 

[flgrl017]

Here’s another version of the 911 call where you get to hear more of what RF said. It’s not as long but doesn’t have as much edited out. It’s the first version that was released.

https://cms6.revize.com/revize/tinl... Bryant Homicide Investigation/LaneBryant.WAV

That’s what is on the TP police website that everyone listens to now.

I think the original is quite telling. We know the victims were bound in the break room and RM was able to make the call when he became distracted and left. I am convinced I hear him talking to someone else on the original version before he discovers that she’s calling 911.

 

[jbirner]

Interesting podcast. Here are my 2 cents. I do not believe the shooter knew any of the victims. I think he (they) chose this location because they knew there would most likely only be women and they wouldn't provide as much resistance. They mentioned possible sexual assault as a reason for the shooter to stay in the store for a long period of time. This is the first time in my many years researching this case that I have heard this theory. I think that is a good possibility that this person is a pervert and was planning something more sinister. I believe robbery was the original plan. RM called 911 knowing that it was a risk if the killer caught her. That being said, I believe she called 911 because she felt they were going to be killed one way or another. If she thought they were going to leave and take the money, I don't believe she would have made the call. She believed she had a better chance of survival by calling 911. What they had in store is anyone's guess. I hate to speculate on that, but RM heard something that made her believe she had no other alternative. I think the SUV was involved in this crime and the occupant(s) were lookouts/getaway driver. I am not certain he/she/they went into the store or not, but I do agree that at the beginning of the 911 call, he appears to be talking to someone other than RM. Once he discovered she called 911, he knew time was of the essence and he shot all 6 women. I think he went out the front door and got into that SUV, which I also believe dropped him off as well. They were gone before the police arrived. Interesting take on checking coffee shops for surveillance, I hadn't thought of that. He does appear calm on the 911 call. I have listened to it hundreds of times and he does not sound like he is panicking at any time. Good point about releasing the entire call to see his true interaction with the victims. Maybe after all these years a new perspective might help. I hope they do go the way of GED match or some other method of genealogy, I don't think it would hurt at this point.

 

[dotr]

 

[flgrl017]

I always circle back to the delivery papers. They were authentic enough to get RM to call another store. If they would have looked fake would she even had done that? It has been said she called another store because she wasn’t expecting a delivery. I would think that if the papers looked fake, she wouldn’t have even called. I always wondered if the police have these papers and if they show some knowledge of Lane Bryant operations.

 

[flgrl017]

Interesting podcast. Here are my 2 cents. I do not believe the shooter knew any of the victims. I think he (they) chose this location because they knew there would most likely only be women and they wouldn't provide as much resistance. They mentioned possible sexual assault as a reason for the shooter to stay in the store for a long period of time. This is the first time in my many years researching this case that I have heard this theory. I think that is a good possibility that this person is a pervert and was planning something more sinister. I believe robbery was the original plan. RM called 911 knowing that it was a risk if the killer caught her. That being said, I believe she called 911 because she felt they were going to be killed one way or another. If she thought they were going to leave and take the money, I don't believe she would have made the call. She believed she had a better chance of survival by calling 911. What they had in store is anyone's guess. I hate to speculate on that, but RM heard something that made her believe she had no other alternative. I think the SUV was involved in this crime and the occupant(s) were lookouts/getaway driver. I am not certain he/she/they went into the store or not, but I do agree that at the beginning of the 911 call, he appears to be talking to someone other than RM. Once he discovered she called 911, he knew time was of the essence and he shot all 6 women. I think he went out the front door and got into that SUV, which I also believe dropped him off as well. They were gone before the police arrived. Interesting take on checking coffee shops for surveillance, I hadn't thought of that. He does appear calm on the 911 call. I have listened to it hundreds of times and he does not sound like he is panicking at any time. Good point about releasing the entire call to see his true interaction with the victims. Maybe after all these years a new perspective might help. I hope they do go the way of GED match or some other method of genealogy, I don't think it would hurt at this point.

I don’t think he knew any of the victims either, but I’ve had the thought that he was affiliated with someone that worked at another Lane Bryant in the area and that is why this store was targeted. It was supposed to be RM’s off day but she came in and even went to the bank that morning. Maybe this threw him off and he thought more cash would be in the store and would only be dealing with one employee.

 

[Shamrock1]

I always circle back to the delivery papers. They were authentic enough to get RM to call another store. If they would have looked fake would she even had done that? It has been said she called another store because she wasn’t expecting a delivery. I would think that if the papers looked fake, she wouldn’t have even called. I always wondered if the police have these papers and if they show some knowledge of Lane Bryant operations.

I’ve never worked retail but I’m guessing fake deliveries aren’t a widespread problem? A new uniform on a cash pick-up person might get RM’s attention but would a form addressed to Lane Bryant raise the same suspicion? I never really thought about the papers much - the 40min and those beads in the hair are what I come back to. Good point about what happened to the papers. Do we have any info about the conversation between RM and the person at the other store?

 

[flgrl017]

I’ve never worked retail but I’m guessing fake deliveries aren’t a widespread problem? A new uniform on a cash pick-up person might get RM’s attention but would a form addressed to Lane Bryant raise the same suspicion? I never really thought about the papers much - the 40min and those beads in the hair are what I come back to. Good point about what happened to the papers. Do we have any info about the conversation between RM and the person at the other store?

I would think that the delivery papers would be pretty standard, and she would be familiar with the way they looked. All I know us she called. I’d love to know the exact time she called and what exactly was said. I bet he pulled the gun soon after she got off that call.
The beads drive me crazy too. You’d think they would be a dead giveaway. Were colored beads in mens hair popular then?

 

[dotr]

100 Years of Black Hair: Cut Revisits Iconic Men’s Hairstyles

@4:50 AA Men's hair circa 2000's

 

[kemo]

I spent a lot of time in Oakland California at the time and noticed a lot of Black men wearing corn rows with beads. I tended to associate that style with tough gang-banger types. I suspect that the style would have been unusual and very distinctive in middle class suburbs but pretty common in parts of Chicago.

If the guy was linked to a street gang in Chicago he almost certainly had an arrest record and fingerprints on record. It would highly unlikely that someone living that life who was in the estimated 25-35 age range could avoid being arrested for some felony. DNA is a different matter. States had different protocols for collecting DNA and maintaining a database. Anyone know the DNA rules for Illinois 1990-2008?

 

[dotr]

I spent a lot of time in Oakland California at the time and noticed a lot of Black men wearing corn rows with beads. I tended to associate that style with tough gang-banger types. I suspect that the style would have been unusual and very distinctive in middle class suburbs but pretty common in parts of Chicago.

If the guy was linked to a street gang in Chicago he almost certainly had an arrest record and fingerprints on record. It would highly unlikely that someone living that life who was in the estimated 25-35 age range could avoid being arrested for some felony. DNA is a different matter. States had different protocols for collecting DNA and maintaining a database. Anyone know the DNA rules for Illinois 1990-2008?

Maybe here, still reading..
A quick guide to the DNA database law in Illinois and the 2012 updates | Illinois State Bar Association

 

[Warwick1991]

It will be 14 years in February... Hard to believe.

I think robbery as a motive is unlikely, but not impossible. Clothing retailers, even then, did a large portion of their sales with credit cards. Many retail chains also take checks - and they did that in 2008. There shouldn't be much cash in the store at all. It might be possible that a would-be robber wouldn't understand that, but I doubt it. I think the women themselves were the target. Whether it was just one individual or anyone who happened to be in the store, IDK. I am leaning towards some kind of hostility to large women, involving sexually abusing multiple victims. Also, with the entrance and exit arrangements of the mall, I think the perpetrator(s) would have made a practice run. It was well-planned, with the dummy delivery. Gang involvement is likely, IMO - gangs can have better "logistics and planning" than we expect.

 

[jbirner]

I would think that the delivery papers would be pretty standard, and she would be familiar with the way they looked. All I know us she called. I’d love to know the exact time she called and what exactly was said. I bet he pulled the gun soon after she got off that call.
The beads drive me crazy too. You’d think they would be a dead giveaway. Were colored beads in mens hair popular then?

The delivery papers are one item we haven't heard much about from LE. I don't know if it is because they are significant and they are keeping them under wraps, or they are not significant. I wonder which store RM called too. What was said and how long the call was. Did they try to warn her to be careful and he saw her getting concerned and pulled the gun at that moment?

 

[Warwick1991]

Perhaps the delivery papers didn’t look authentic, and that’s what prompted RM’s call. If they looked atypical, I could imagine RM calling another store, confused at first. Perhaps the papers were even handwritten, with some generic descriptions, such as dresses or pants. Whether authentic looking or not, there’s a lot of planning involved.

If they looked authentic, as @flgrl017 notes, that points to knowledge about the typical routines at a Lane Bryant store and inside knowledge.

The motive is the mystery. I don’t think there was enough cash on hand to assume robbery was a motive.

 

[Warwick1991]

LE must have the perpetrator’s DNA. They probably have the coffee cup and his cap. His DNA could have been on Connie Woolfolk.

As with so many cold cases, DNA and genealogy is probably the best hope at this point.

 

[jbirner]

LE must have the perpetrator’s DNA. They probably have the coffee cup and his cap. His DNA could have been on Connie Woolfolk.

As with so many cold cases, DNA and genealogy is probably the best hope at this point.

I agree DNA is probably going to be the key to ever solving this case. If someone was going to come forward I think they would have done so already. It wouldn't surprise me if as we speak, they may already have narrowed it down some using DNA technology. I guess for now we just have to hope for that breaking news to come one day regarding this case.

 

[Shamrock1]

One of the best Dr. Seuss books is about “a pair of pale-green pants with nobody inside them.” I’ve read it to my kids hundreds of times for a dozen years now. Just about every time I read it, I think about this case: someone has to know about the light green beads. JMO.

 

[dotr]

A fugitive recently arrested in Atlantic City caught my eye, could the perp in the Lane B. murders possibly be 45 years old now, or is that too young?
speculation, imo.
Also wondering if the green beads in the perp's hair might suggest allegiance to a sports team, one that has green in the uniform, for example ?

The LB perp seemed to be a fairly beefed up or beefy individual, wondering if he played football..... (head injury)
Page Loading in a moment
''Best Green Teams in Sports''

Complete speculation, imo.

 

[JnRyan]

I don't believe this killer knew anyone at the store. Having worked in retail and later in public accounting I know each entity has it's own delivery form and even some entities may have more than one form depending on how the order was placed. I know I wouldn't likely be alarmed or alerted just by a form alone. I'm not certain as to why the call was made to another store unless the manager wasn't expecting a delivery and honestly was trying to help the delivery driver. (Going to the present day Lane Bryant site and searching for stores in a 25 mile radius there are 7 stores.) I tend to believe that even if this guy had committed robberies before he had no clue as to the business operations of a clothing store - i.e., little to no cash, just credit cards. That is, not a very experienced robber.

That gun is going to be difficult, if not impossible, to find even if the killer didn't throw it in a river or a dumpster. Glocks, from what little I have learned about their forensic detail, have a very distinctive land and groove pattern on a bullet. But starting in the 1990's, the .40 cal became a very popular caliber of LE as many LE agencies dropped the 9mm in favor of the larger .40 cal.

I have to agree with others on here - if LE has a good DNA profile that is going to be the break that likely leads to an arrest.