IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

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OddOneOut said:
I worked retail for over five years in a strip mall. Our deliveries came in through the back door not the front. There was a buzzer at the back door to announce their arrival. I don't know how LB did it. However, if the killer came in through the front door, it may have been to get them to open the back door. It may not have been just cash he came in for. LB clothing may have been part of his plan. Grabbing clothes off the racks and taking them out the back door wouldn't have taken much time. The clothes could have been sold at flea markets, etc. Or, he could have had a buyer that would take all of them. The 911 call may have cancelled this plan.
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That’s the way the deliveries worked at the retail store I worked at too. This Lane Bryant didn’t have a stock room and the back door was located in the employee break room. I’m not sure what would have been the standard procedure for deliveries. We know the papers were believable enough for the manager to call another store. This would have been a really bad choice if you wanted to take merch out the back door due to the I80 exit ramp. There are a lot of strip malls with more private backs that would make more sense if this was is motive. It’s just a really weird location because it’s so far back into the mall plus both doors are highly visible.
 
I know we've speculated for years on what his plan may have been. I never thought of the stealing clothes angle. I still believe he (they) were looking for money and chose this store because it was a soft target compared to others. I think he was not satisfied with the money he collected and was determined to stay until he got what he came for. If that meant robbing more people as they came in the store, he would. I think the cop showing up in the parking lot changed the plan as shortly after the SUV, whom I believe was the accomplice, pulls up in front of store. RM calling 911 caused him to panic even further and we know what happened next.
 
CeCe Moore, a genealogist at Parabon NanoLabs based in Reston, Virginia might be willing to help. Recently she has been on 60 Minutes Australia because she believes she could help solve the JonBenet Ramsey case using up to date DNA testing. Regarding both cases LE would need to invite her into their investigation.
 
This week President Biden signed into law, The Homicide Victim’s Family Rights Act. (Paraphrasing description from an online article). This legislation establishes federal rights for the relatives of people killed in unsolved murders. This allows families of cold case victims a way to officially request federal investigators review their case with the latest available technology and prohibits previous investigators from leading the renewed probe. This new law requires federal law enforcement agencies to review a cold case upon request from a victims immediate family if the case is still cold and has leads. (DNA, I am hopeful would be a lead, considering new technology). This new law requires the federal government to inform family members of cold case victims of their right to do so. I believe families do not have to wait for a letter in the mail to begin their written request. This law is on the families side.
 
Userid said:
Just a couple things here, I am very familiar with this area, I've worked in this area for over 10 years and travel via 191st and Harlem for the last 5 years at least, passing this site every day:

1) There is no way he could have parked on the south ramp that leads out to Harlem Avenue. Way too much traffic, even in the mornings. Also, fairly certain there was snow on the ground, so his prints would have been visible, since there was grass between the ramp and where the mall was located.

2) I agree he would have had to exit the parking lot via Market Drive. After that though, it gets tricky to say if he traveled west down 191st or east towards Harlem. Either route would have been risky for him to take. 191st to La Grange is a 3 mile drive with multiple stop lights and is obviously a busy street, he would have risked being seen by responding officers or random drivers in general, as it is a busy street. There are a few businesses on that street, including the Tinley Park Fire Station (which I assume was there at that time, but I could be wrong) and a couple mini-malls, so he also might have risked being caught on camera.

If he traveled east towards Harlem and the 80 on-ramp, he would have risked driving past the crime scene and responding officers on Harlem (one of which said he was traveling south on Harlem, fuzzy on the details but I believe it was the second responding officer, with the first responding officer being the one that was already in the parking lot).

3) Just my opinion on this case: I feel like the murderer had to have known the area. This wasn't random -- the location of the store essentially proves this. Back then, the mall was even sparser, and this Lane Bryant (TJ Maxx now) sat spack dab in the middle and rear of the parking lot. Yes, it is close to I-80, but the location of this particular store isn't convenient. It was chosen for a reason and the perp knew it was there; and how to get there.

Second, this is pure speculation, but I've always thought that the perp may have worked as a delivery or Fed-Ex driver in the past. Perhaps this was why he was familiar with the area in general.
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I am also from the area and agree this was someone who knew their way around. I also think, my total opinion, is that someone in that store knew what was going to go down. I don't think the killing was the goal but something went wrong. The 911 call does show that the killer was yell to someone they were on the phone with. My only other question has always been the sole survivor. How does a killer shooting everyone in the head execution style not notice they completely missed? If the survivor was able to turn their head the killer would still be able to plainly see that the shot didn't hit. The survivor was taken to the hospital and released the next morning with a grazing wound, if you are at the end of your rope because you have already killed the other witnesses, you would make sure you didn't leave anyone nearly unharmed.
 
dotr said:
Welcome to Ws @MandiDoubter!
Intriguing, would be interested to explore that idea, but we have to remember to add "imo" In my opinion- if there is no accompanying news or LE (police) link.
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This is true, but the poster clearly stated "I think..." which communicates that he/she is stating an opinion, not claiming an established fact. MOO ;)
 
flgrl017 said:
Sounds like they were bound with their hands behind their back laying face down on the floor. I say this because I’ve read articles that said he made them lay on the floor, and we know all but RM were shot in the back of the head.
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RM being the only one who wasn't shot directly in the back of the head has always been super fishy to me. A killer would truly notice if they missed an execution kill shot. The killer just shot 5 other women, if the last hostage moved at the last second they would take a second shot. I do not believe anyone would risk leaving a scene like that without making sure that the deed was done on all witnesses. This is just my opinion.
 
I want to emphasize that this is entirely IMO - but I do slightly lean towards this being a targeted attack on Connie from what I know about the case. I do have to wonder if she had a stalker, possibly a man who she turned down and was angry. I don't think this was a "robbery gone wrong". I really wonder if she frequented that particular Lane Bryant. Entirely IMO, JMO only - I really do have to wonder if the killer stalked her, figured out she was planning to be in that Lane Bryant at that time, and may have initially planned to sneak in with the delivery scam and then abduct and/or assault her. Since Connie also had a second job at the Target near the Lane Bryant I wonder if he had also been stalking her there. just a thought.

Connie was the one who was noted by her brother to have been very roughed up, beaten and possibly pistol-whipped on top of being shot. I've also seen speculation that she was the one who had been groped by the killer. She fought him, hard. Now obviously that makes a lot of sense - she wants to survive, she wants to go back to her boys and be safe - but IDK. Part of me really feels she recognized that man and he had been following her, harrassing her, etc. and she knew she didn't want to go down without a fight.
This is entirely speculation. Connie just sticks out to me in this case because of how violently she was attacked.
 
MandiDoubter said:
I am also from the area and agree this was someone who knew their way around. I also think, my total opinion, is that someone in that store knew what was going to go down. I don't think the killing was the goal but something went wrong. The 911 call does show that the killer was yell to someone they were on the phone with. My only other question has always been the sole survivor. How does a killer shooting everyone in the head execution style not notice they completely missed? If the survivor was able to turn their head the killer would still be able to plainly see that the shot didn't hit. The survivor was taken to the hospital and released the next morning with a grazing wound, if you are at the end of your rope because you have already killed the other witnesses, you would make sure you didn't leave anyone nearly unharmed.
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I believe her since the timeline is so tight. I personally just feel that he panicked when he realized RM was on the phone. Here’s the timeline I posted in 2019:

10:00- store opens

Between 10:00-10:08- 2 customers enter

10:08- perp enters

{2 more customers enter after perp but not sure when}

10:30- emergency call to target parking lot

{cop 1 responds to the target call but we don’t know what time he arrived at target}

Between 10:38-10:39- suv arrives and parks in front of Lane Bryant

10:44-911 call (36 second duration)

Between 10:45-10:46- suv leaves

10:46.16 cop #2 pulls up (cop #1 already at Lane Bryant waiting for backup; not sure of exact arrival)


**Since these times were not logged by the same device they could be off a little bit I imagine, but it sure is tight. Hopefully the cops did one where all the times were exact.
MandiDoubter said:
RM being the only one who wasn't shot directly in the back of the head has always been super fishy to me. A killer would truly notice if they missed an execution kill shot. The killer just shot 5 other women, if the last hostage moved at the last second they would take a second shot. I do not believe anyone would risk leaving a scene like that without making sure that the deed was done on all witnesses. This is just my opinion.
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She had escaped, and he knew she had made a phone call.
 
flgrl017 said:
I believe her since the timeline is so tight. I personally just feel that he panicked when he realized RM was on the phone. Here’s the timeline I posted in 2019:

10:00- store opens

Between 10:00-10:08- 2 customers enter

10:08- perp enters

{2 more customers enter after perp but not sure when}

10:30- emergency call to target parking lot

{cop 1 responds to the target call but we don’t know what time he arrived at target}

Between 10:38-10:39- suv arrives and parks in front of Lane Bryant

10:44-911 call (36 second duration)

Between 10:45-10:46- suv leaves

10:46.16 cop #2 pulls up (cop #1 already at Lane Bryant waiting for backup; not sure of exact arrival)


**Since these times were not logged by the same device they could be off a little bit I imagine, but it sure is tight. Hopefully the cops did one where all the times were exact.

She had escaped, and he knew she had made a phone call.
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From everything I have researched, I knew SS from school and have done soooooo much research because I still cannot believe there has been real leads after all this time. The woman that survived didn't escape nor make the call. She has said that she moved slightly and the bullet just grazed her throat. Why wouldn't the killer shoot a second shot since the first head was a total miss. Even though she laid there and played dead, her words, did the killer just leave?
 
I'm honestly a little bit surprised a solo can even shoot four people in a row directly in the back of the head. He couldn't have had them all bound that securely in the time he had so they would have needed to be paralyzed with fear and/or completely hopeless to not try to break away.

Somebody knows who the guy is. The reward just isn't high enough and/or the details on claiming it are not widely understood. I'll say again how much good it could do for crimestoppers to launch an infirmation campaign in prisons and high crime areas about how exactly anonymous rewards are given out. Distrust of any system is the most violent killer in America.
 
How he missed the last person is probably a combination of factors. Firing a gun indoors is extremely loud and can be intimidating to the shooter as well as the victim. I fired a .22 at a rat in a shed that stored grain and my ears were ringing from just that small caliber. He was probably in a rush to get out after the first 2-3 shots were likely heard outside. We also don't know how the victim was wearing her hair so the shooter thought he hit where her neck was. If this guy was shooting a medium caliber like a 9mm, .45 or .40 his ears were probably still ringing when he exited the building.
 
JnRyan said:
How he missed the last person is probably a combination of factors. Firing a gun indoors is extremely loud and can be intimidating to the shooter as well as the victim. I fired a .22 at a rat in a shed that stored grain and my ears were ringing from just that small caliber. He was probably in a rush to get out after the first 2-3 shots were likely heard outside. We also don't know how the victim was wearing her hair so the shooter thought he hit where her neck was. If this guy was shooting a medium caliber like a 9mm, .45 or .40 his ears were probably still ringing when he exited the building.
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I agree. Add panic to the noise could have caused him/her to have fled without noticing one victim wasn't dead.
 
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