IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

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What if three people were there and they were in on it?

In on what? A hit?

How could they have known in advance that the Lt would see them and then make an effort to confront them?

He saw them, called them in, took off in pursuit and met his end?

I'm not understanding why you put this in the form of a question.

The whole thing could have been orchestrated, like someone set a trap.

Again, "How many 'hits' do you know of where the HitMan plans the encounter, tricks the victim into falsely reporting suspects and then has the ability to wrestle the victims own gun away from him and then use that as the murder weapon? AND THEN to disappear from the scene and leave no trail that the K9's can detect or follow?"


Are we sure he was shot with his own weapon?

No. we are not absolutely sure about that. However, nothing is pointing towards any other possible weapons at this time either.

That would change things, imo, and no way could that have been planned.

I Agree.
 
In on what? A hit?

How could they have known in advance that the Lt would see them and then make an effort to confront them?


I'm not understanding why you put this in the form of a question.



Are we sure he was shot with his own weapon? That would change things, imo, and no way could that have been planned.

Again, "How many 'hits' do you know of where the HitMan plans the encounter, tricks the victim into falsely reporting suspects and then has the ability to wrestle the victims own gun away from him and then use that as the murder weapon? AND THEN to disappear from the scene and leave no trail that the K9's can detect or follow?"

It was in the form of a question because it was a stray thought, tagging on to the one I had seconds earlier.
 
I'm sorry - you lost me.



True. However it wouldn't take much to establish and to confirm that timeline. Especially if he went to the fitness center on the way into work.

But you are still missing one of my points. "If this was a 'HIT', how do you reconcile that with his report of his pursuit of three suspects that most likely were not actually there? And, how do you reconcile that with him being shot with his own gun?

How many 'hits' do you know of where the HitMan plans the encounter, tricks the victim into falsely reporting suspects and then has the ability to wrestle the victims own gun away from him and then use that as the murder weapon? AND THEN to disappear from the scene and leave no trail that the K9's can detect or follow?

That's quite a hit.

You must have came out of retirement for this case.

Good post. I agree. This wasn't a trick HIT.

THIS WASN'T A SET UP AMBUSH.

And this is why I believe the retired cop who threatened people to tell the truth about a suicide and stop covering it up.

Plus this why I believe the coroner who stated that he can not put down the manner of death yet.

Plus this is why I believe that LE had no problems with clearing the 3 suspects that they interviewed.

Imo. They all figured suicide or accidental as well.

But it's hard to scale back a lie when the governor comes to the funeral and gives unlimited funds to catch a killer that he doesn't know don't actually exist.

So since the media ran with the story.

LE has no choice but to play it through without looking densed.

So I truly think that his death was either a suicide or accidental and the first responding unit knows more than what they are willing to say. Or knows nothing due to a more elaborate suicide plan.

Jmo.
 
You must have came out of retirement for this case.

Good post. I agree. This wasn't a trick HIT.

THIS WASN'T A SET UP AMBUSH.

And this is why I believe the retired cop who threatened people to tell the truth about a suicide and stop covering it up.

Plus this why I believe the coroner who stated that he can not put down the manner of death yet.

Plus this is why I believe that LE had no problems with clearing the 3 suspects that they interviewed.

Imo. They all figured suicide or accidental as well.

But it's hard to scale back a lie when the governor comes to the funeral and gives unlimited funds to catch a killer that he doesn't know don't actually exist.

So since the media ran with the story.

LE has no choice but to play it through without looking densed.

So I truly think that his death was either a suicide or accidental and the first responding unit knows more than what they are willing to say. Or knows nothing due to a more elaborate suicide plan.

Jmo.

BBM Agree.

JMO.
 
You must have came out of retirement for this case.

Good post. I agree. This wasn't a trick HIT.

Thanks but I've never been LE or even a private investigator. Just an electronics technician with a lot of interest (and some personal experience) with LE and related entities. I didn't mean to mislead.

<snip>

I truly think that his death was either a suicide or accidental and the first responding unit knows more than what they are willing to say. Or knows nothing due to a more elaborate suicide plan. Jmo.

Until we have some new information that changes things, that's where my thoughts are on this as well.
 
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ficer-Fatally-Shot-in-Fox-Lake-323826631.html

The first broadcast video report on this page has portions of the Gliniewiscz dispatch recording. Anyone can listen to it. It also has their interpretation of what he is saying.

7:52 AM
6740 = I'm at (inaudible) the old concrete plant, checking on two male white, male black, uh, by the equipment south of Honing.

Dispatch = Ten-4. Did you need a second unit?

6740 = Negative, Dispatch.

7:55 AM
6740 = They took off towards the swamp.

Dispatch = 740, Ten-4, did you need a second unit?

6740 = Yeah, now go ahead and start somebody.

8:01 AM Two backup officers arrive.​

Listen to it yourself, read the article, see what you think?
 
I'm thinking things through (as best I can) to their logical conclusions and I can't reconcile this being a 'murder' with the fact that K9's from multiple agencies were unable to pick up and follow any scent trails at all. No "suspects" caught on video, etc.

May I ask how you reconcile those things yourself - given the fact that the LT was "on foot" and most likely killed with his own weapon?

I agree. Using your post as a spring board. If this case wasn't about a LEO or former military person how long ago would LE have started questioning the story? If this case was a regular civilian LE would have started questioning the lack of evidence to support the story within a few 2 to 3 days or so. If that long.
 
Maybe the first arriving unit who was near by helped stage the suicide or accidental self-shot to look more like a homicide.

Alot of officers would want their LT to go out and be remembered courageously with a big funeral.

If dna was left behind. It could be from someone who cried or kissed on the officer while he was taking his last breath. So he could have had someone already there and waiting for him.

Idk. Just thinking at the moment until the coroner tells us more.


If he stopped for coffee before work the dna could be from whoever fixed his coffee. If he worked out before he went to work the dna could be from someone else at the health club that morning. That's why they said the have taken swabs from more than 50 people iirc. IMO, the trace dna is just another needle in a haystack. It could have come from anywhere.
 
Hello,


I just joined this forum. I live a little south of where this took place. And this case has already gotten a bit cold. But I've been following up on the news and this thread. And there are a lot of questions going on in my mind.



  1. He lives in Antioch, north of Fox Lake. To get to work, his best route is 59 south. But instead of showing up to work (at 8:00AM?), he drives past the police station to check out activity on Honing Rd and deliberately making himself late to work? Where I come from, we call this an adapted form of the fraud triangle. He lives in Antioch. He's supposed to be at work on 59 and Devlin Rd. Why is he at Route 12 and Honing Rd? For him to be able to spot any suspicious activity even along route 59, he would have to go out of his way to drive there. But let's say that he takes route 12 to work in the morning. It means it will take a couple of minutes longer. But in this case, Gliniewicz fails to turn East on Grand Ave. and continues down to Honing Rd or Rollins Rd? Note that there is only one way in and out on Honing Rd using a vehicle. And how coincidental that this means he's all by himself with no partner. Any way you put it, Gliniewicz deliberately took a longer route to work to &#8220;check this out&#8221;. He could not have saw anything there to raise his suspicions that would have prompted him to make a detour in the first place.
  2. He gives a vague description of the suspects; no clothing, no vehicle, no plate search.
  3. I've heard of police being discouraged from asking for backup, but this was not the case here. The dispatcher asks him directly if he would like backup, and he refuses. When she asks him again, he says to start one up? And instead of waiting for backup, he chooses to leave his car to go after the three suspects on his own?
  4. At 7:55AM, he reports that the suspects are running off into the swamp. If he startes chasing them, how far will he have to run before he catches one? If I was a suspect running off into the swamp, I would start running as soon as I see his car. I would go a lot farther than 50 yards. Unless, I decide to hang back, hide, and wait for him to come close to me so that I can jump him, take his gun, and shoot him with it. This is not likely. Perhaps I'm Delta Force taking out GI Joe who happens to be an international terrorist. But if this would be all true, I would at least carry along and use my own gun.
  5. If there was a struggle for the weapon, and the criminal was able to get the upper hand on Gliniewicz. After shooting him with his own weapon, why would he leave it behind? If I was that person, I would take it along for further protection. I would at least find a better place to get rid of it so that I wouldn't leave behind a substantial piece of evidence.
  6. By 7:57AM, backup is already in the vincinity, Gliniewicz is shot and there is no sign of any suspects or a getaway car. If anything would have happened after that, they would have heard or seen it. That means that all of this would have had to happen within 2 minutes or less. This doesn't seem to leave very much time for the suspects to take out Gliniewicz and all three get away without a trace.


When you rule out the impossible, all that remains, however improbable, has to be the truth. And the truth is that Gliniewicz was not at work that day. Instead, he was somewhere else checking out a remote area, supposively putting himself in a dangerous situation all alone in a city where there are few black people and murder has not happened in over 10 years! I'm getting really sceptical here. So sceptical that I'm no longer questioning what happened and how, but why it happened. Why would Gliniewicz take his own life?


A) We know that there are significant cash benefits to families to fallen cops. We already know of a lumpsum payment of $333,604.00 to the family. And all of his dependents receive free college tuition, up to 120 credits until they are age 25. I believe his oldest son is 25. And his funeral is free. Plus, the family receives whatever donation money comes from charity as a result of this tragedy. These benefits would not be received if it was determined that the cause of Gliniewicz's death was suicide.


B) This is in addition to the wife receiving a pension benefit of at least 50% of her husband's pay for the rest of her life, and life insurance benefits. These are benefits that probably wouldn't be affected if suicide was determined to be the cause of death.


Would there be any other motives? Was he struggling financially? Was he looking forward to retiring? What about that internal investigation? How were things at home?


His work email does not show up on the Ashley Madison list.


http://www.foxlake.org/directory.aspx?EID=28


A mortgage on their home was taken in 2006 by Wells Fargo. It looks like a new home purchase. I'm sursprised that I don't see a refinance recently being that rates are so low now. Perhaps they weren't strapped for cash, or it could mean that they were underwater. The mortgage is not under foreclosure.


http://chicagotribune.public-record.com/property/lake/01351100140000/38561-n-lakeside-pl


<modsnip>

Perhaps if we can find determine why, it will help us to conclude what happened and how. This is still my opinion. For the most part, I just want to know the truth like everyone else.

Thank you.
 
was there ever any mention as to what the three " suspects" were wearing? It would be unusual if the Lt. Did not call in more descriptors of the suspects.
 
Posts related to the scanner thread have been removed.

Remember: What happens in the scanner thread stays in the scanner thread.
 
Hello,


I just joined this forum. I live a little south of where this took place. And this case has already gotten a bit cold. But I've been following up on the news and this thread. And there are a lot of questions going on in my mind.



  1. He lives in Antioch, north of Fox Lake. To get to work, his best route is 59 south. But instead of showing up to work (at 8:00AM?), he drives past the police station to check out activity on Honing Rd and deliberately making himself late to work? Where I come from, we call this an adapted form of the fraud triangle. He lives in Antioch. He's supposed to be at work on 59 and Devlin Rd. Why is he at Route 12 and Honing Rd? For him to be able to spot any suspicious activity even along route 59, he would have to go out of his way to drive there. But let's say that he takes route 12 to work in the morning. It means it will take a couple of minutes longer. But in this case, Gliniewicz fails to turn East on Grand Ave. and continues down to Honing Rd or Rollins Rd? Note that there is only one way in and out on Honing Rd using a vehicle. And how coincidental that this means he's all by himself with no partner. Any way you put it, Gliniewicz deliberately took a longer route to work to &#8220;check this out&#8221;. He could not have saw anything there to raise his suspicions that would have prompted him to make a detour in the first place.
  2. He gives a vague description of the suspects; no clothing, no vehicle, no plate search.
  3. I've heard of police being discouraged from asking for backup, but this was not the case here. The dispatcher asks him directly if he would like backup, and he refuses. When she asks him again, he says to start one up? And instead of waiting for backup, he chooses to leave his car to go after the three suspects on his own?
  4. At 7:55AM, he reports that the suspects are running off into the swamp. If he startes chasing them, how far will he have to run before he catches one? If I was a suspect running off into the swamp, I would start running as soon as I see his car. I would go a lot farther than 50 yards. Unless, I decide to hang back, hide, and wait for him to come close to me so that I can jump him, take his gun, and shoot him with it. This is not likely. Perhaps I'm Delta Force taking out GI Joe who happens to be an international terrorist. But if this would be all true, I would at least carry along and use my own gun.
  5. If there was a struggle for the weapon, and the criminal was able to get the upper hand on Gliniewicz. After shooting him with his own weapon, why would he leave it behind? If I was that person, I would take it along for further protection. I would at least find a better place to get rid of it so that I wouldn't leave behind a substantial piece of evidence.
  6. By 7:57AM, backup is already in the vincinity, Gliniewicz is shot and there is no sign of any suspects or a getaway car. If anything would have happened after that, they would have heard or seen it. That means that all of this would have had to happen within 2 minutes or less. This doesn't seem to leave very much time for the suspects to take out Gliniewicz and all three get away without a trace.


When you rule out the impossible, all that remains, however improbable, has to be the truth. And the truth is that Gliniewicz was not at work that day. Instead, he was somewhere else checking out a remote area, supposively putting himself in a dangerous situation all alone in a city where there are few black people and murder has not happened in over 10 years! I'm getting really sceptical here. So sceptical that I'm no longer questioning what happened and how, but why it happened. Why would Gliniewicz take his own life?


A) We know that there are significant cash benefits to families to fallen cops. We already know of a lumpsum payment of $333,604.00 to the family. And all of his dependents receive free college tuition, up to 120 credits until they are age 25. I believe his oldest son is 25. And his funeral is free. Plus, the family receives whatever donation money comes from charity as a result of this tragedy. These benefits would not be received if it was determined that the cause of Gliniewicz's death was suicide.


B) This is in addition to the wife receiving a pension benefit of at least 50% of her husband's pay for the rest of her life, and life insurance benefits. These are benefits that probably wouldn't be affected if suicide was determined to be the cause of death.


Would there be any other motives? Was he struggling financially? Was he looking forward to retiring? What about that internal investigation? How were things at home?


His work email does not show up on the Ashley Madison list.


http://www.foxlake.org/directory.aspx?EID=28


A mortgage on their home was taken in 2006 by Wells Fargo. It looks like a new home purchase. I'm sursprised that I don't see a refinance recently being that rates are so low now. Perhaps they weren't strapped for cash, or it could mean that they were underwater. The mortgage is not under foreclosure.


http://chicagotribune.public-record.com/property/lake/01351100140000/38561-n-lakeside-pl


<modsnip>

Perhaps if we can find determine why, it will help us to conclude what happened and how. This is still my opinion. For the most part, I just want to know the truth like everyone else.

Thank you.

:welcome:

You've definitely given this much thought. Thank you for sharing it on thread. I agree with you that it doesn't seem like an ambush or a setup. And I agree with you that he may have to have been taken by surprise to be shot and killed. I'm not ready in the absence of much more information to assume the lack of it relegates suicide as the only logical answer.

Lt. Gliniewicz seems like a man who I doubt with flinch from going into a breach. I think he didn't expect the situation to be so dangerous, that it turned on him very quickly. That's what I think is the key to this. What could have made something that only seemed like three guys up to something into a deadly situation? He strikes as man who would have trouble leaving his sons to wonder at the cause of his death, under any circumstances. I think LE needs more time to determine who is involved.
 
Battaglia also called other police agencies and several media outlets over the past couple days, he said. Covelli provided the following information regarding recent media reports surrounding the case:

As of recent, some media outlets have reported on obtaining information from an anonymous source even after being told the information is inaccurate. It is unknown at this time if Battaglia is one of the &#8220;sources&#8221; media outlets have reported on regarding this investigation. Battaglia&#8217;s phone records show he has communicated with several media outlets during a similar time period.


http://patch.com/illinois/oaklawn/o...g-key-officials-fox-lake-police-shooting-case
 
A mortgage on their home was taken in 2006 by Wells Fargo. It looks like a new home purchase. I'm sursprised that I don't see a refinance recently being that rates are so low now. Perhaps they weren't strapped for cash, or it could mean that they were underwater. The mortgage is not under foreclosure.


http://chicagotribune.public-record.com/property/lake/01351100140000/38561-n-lakeside-pl


<modsnip>


I'm going to correct myself here. This is a public record of a home sale. So if they refinanced their mortgage, that would not be a public record. So I can't assume that they refinanced or not.

But given the fact that he was close to retirement does raise a big financial concern. His income will immediately go down, and his health care costs will immediately go up. He's got at least 20 years before his house is paid off. Plus, he's got at least 2 kids that are college aged or younger.
 
The retirement issue is hinky as well. Originally it was reported LT. CG was supposed to retire at the end of September, it was later reported he had not submitted any official paperwork pertaining to his retirement. If no paperwork was submitted, why the 90 minute meeting with the mayor where he expressed his concerns about the teenage explorers group continuing after he was gone?

The only way I can make a homicide work in this case would have to be an inside job with it being set up to make this look like a suicide. Who beside the mayor can confirm he said anything about being concerned about the explorers group continuing after he was gone? Who assigned Lt. CG to patrol the area of 128 Honing? And how long had he been assigned to that area?

Who knew about his interest in retiring? Did his wife and sons know or was this news to her/them at the time of his death? Just like the lack of evidence around the crime scene to support Lt. CG's radio call, there seems to be a lack of knowledge/evidence regarding his plans to retire.

Would someone who had recently applied for chief of Police at a neighboring jurisdiction suddenly plan to retire?


Lots of questions.......
 
The retirement issue is hinky as well. Originally it was reported LT. CG was supposed to retire at the end of September, it was later reported he had not submitted any official paperwork pertaining to his retirement. If no paperwork was submitted, why the 90 minute meeting with the mayor where he expressed his concerns about the teenage explorers group continuing after he was gone?

The only way I can make a homicide work in this case would have to be an inside job with it being set up to make this look like a suicide. Who beside the mayor can confirm he said anything about being concerned about the explorers group continuing after he was gone? Who assigned Lt. CG to patrol the area of 128 Honing? And how long had he been assigned to that area?

Who knew about his interest in retiring? Did his wife and sons know or was this news to her/them at the time of his death? Just like the lack of evidence around the crime scene to support Lt. CG's radio call, there seems to be a lack of knowledge/evidence regarding his plans to retire.

Would someone who had recently applied for chief of Police at a neighboring jurisdiction suddenly plan to retire?


Lots of questions.......

And why wouldn't Lt.Gliniewicz keep on working with the Explorer group after he retired? Why would he be concerned about this group continuing after he was "gone"? That right there is a red flag to me. I wonder how many LE and public officials privately suspect suicide?
 
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