IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #2

[vestigare]

Tracking dogs can scent over water. They aren't really smelling the ground but the air above the ground and can follow people in vehicles under certain circumstances. With 48 dogs there from various alphabet departments if there was something to track they would have tracked it swamp or no.

We don't know if everything they did track was ruled out but considering nothing was said I figure they found nothing of use.

 

[Elley Mae]

I may have missed it, but do we know where and when the 3 men were spotted on video? If they were in the same area around the same time as the shooting, that could feed into some of the theories, but if they were in a different area at a different time, it's obviously less likely. "Two white males, one black male" might seem like it "has to be" referring to the same group caught on camera, though there is no mention of clothing, age, height, or really any other descriptives that would really help to confirm.

Welcome! The only thing I remember was that it was suppose to have come from a law enforcement person's home, iirc.

 

[cady]

JMO Evidence of a struggle WOULD lend some credence to the 3 person allegation. Only ONE person fired a killing shot. If the shot was fired from the LT's weapon, it had to have been wrested from him, which would leave some evidence of a struggle, IMO OR the LT fired his own weapon, killing himself, which makes no sense, if 3 suspicious people were there to witness it. If the shot to the abdominal vest is true, it must have been the first shot as the "torso" shot killed him. If it turns out that the first shot does not ballistically match the killing shot, then there must have been at least two guns involved if the killing shot was fired by Lt.G's weapon. If both shots were fired from the officer's gun, it was either quickly wrested away from him, or it boils down to he shot himself JMO

 

[cady]

Hoping that the Coroner gets the information that he needs, to rule on MOD. TODAY!!!!!

 

[Cubby]

First post, long time lurker.

I have been following this case and was suspicious of the three-suspected-murderers scenario from the start.

I don't believe anyone else has mentioned this yet.

During the funeral Gliniewicz's friend claimed he would run two miles and then smoke a cigarette.

Two packs of Marlboroughs can be seen on his visor in the picture of Gliniewiscz sitting in his cruiser and turning to smile.

I think he was probably a long-time, heavy smoker and I wonder if he recently was diagnosed with lung cancer.

He might have thought if he was going to die soon from cancer he might as well make his death look like it was in the line of duty so his family got more benefits. And if he was retiring soon he had a limited amount of time left to be killed on duty.

This could explain why he shot himself in the chest and not the head as he was hoping any autopsy wouldn't notice cancer in his lungs if it was focused on bullet wounds.


I also don't know how his medical benefits would have worked once he retired. He might have been forced to have a physical to reassess for his retirement medical benefits and knew he would have problems.

Welcome to WS vestigare! :welcome: Interesting first post. Interesting that you brought up being shot in the chest. I know, well rather knew, a Chicago LEO who committed suicide by shooting himself in the heart. It was then I learned there is a better success rate at suicide by shooting a major organ than shooting oneself in the head. I rather surprised that didn't appear to be commonly known here at WS. I didn't bring it up previously because since suicide is just speculation at this point. When I was a kid, he was my favorite adult. I just adored him. I still to this day can't imagine him taking his life. He always seemed so happy to me. He's still part of my favorite childhood memories.

 

[vestigare]

Welcome to WS vestigare! :welcome: Interesting first post. Interesting that you brought up being shot in the chest. I know, well rather knew, a Chicago LEO who committed suicide by shooting himself in the heart. It was then I learned there is a better success rate at suicide by shooting a major organ than shooting oneself in the head. I rather surprised that didn't appear to be commonly known here at WS. I didn't bring it up previously because since suicide is just speculation at this point. When I was a kid, he was my favorite adult. I just adored him. I still to this day can't imagine him taking his life. He always seemed so happy to me. He's still part of my favorite childhood memories.

Thank You for the welcome. Suicide is very difficult for the loved ones and maybe that was another reason he chose to make it look like murder.

 

[Cubby]

If I were a fellow police officer, I would not want to quickly rule this a suicide for the sake of Gliniewicz's family. I would want to investigate all possibilities that this was indeed a homicide. Ruling this a suicide would mean severe ramifications for his family.

My opinion, police pension benefits are okay, but I wouldn't call them awesome. I would estimate that Gliniewicz would be entitled to about 60% of his income and would have to purchase health insurance for well over $500.00 per month. If I was in his position, I would be extremely worried about my financial situation.

He was still young enough to pursue a career in another field. My step dad is retired LE, did 20 years in LE retiring as chief of police and then retired a second time from entirely different field. At this point it is pure speculation as to his financial situation.

 

[Cubby]

Ok, so here's my number one theory (at this moment, at least):

I think Lt was set up and them ambushed. I think someone called him on his way to work and asked him to check out three suspicious males by the cement plant. He got there and radio'd in his location. He then saw 3 males running away towards the swamp (Maybe these 3 males were given money from someone to be there and then run away?). As he was following them, the person who set him up then ambushed him and shot and killed him.

The three men could have been local criminal-types who were paid to be there at that time. That could explain why they were then seen on surveillance video, and then cleared of having anything to do with the murder - because they were only in that area briefly, and before Lt was murdered.

I think maybe it has something to do with the internal investigation, which could be why the police in this case are being so odd about releasing anything. Maybe they're onto a suspect, but are building their case.

It's hard for me to believe that there were really 3 suspects who murdered the Lt and then got away, without being videotaped anywhere and without anyone seeing them. It's even harder for me to believe that the 3 suspects who murdered him are different than the 3 males who were on the video. I just think it's quite odd that there were 2 sets of three males (two white, one black) in the area at the same time. This all leads me to believe that there wasn't really 3 males who murdered him.

As for the suicide theory - If it's true about the downward trajectory and the shot in the abdomen, and there two shots, that seems unlikely to me. If it was a head shot, I might think differently. I haven't completely ruled out suicide though.

I HAVE ruled out the "3 men murdered him" theory. I think they would have been seen, or would have talked by now. I also think the manhunt ended rather quickly. I was in Fox Lake on the Friday after it happened, and the manhunt was definitely already over.

The only thing I am really sure of about this case is that's it's definitely perplexing.

jmo

BBM. Then how could three men hired by someone to ambush him get away? Why does it work for three men who were hired, but not three men who did the actual killing? How does the circumstances for 3 people getting away unseen change when the only thing that changes is they didn't do the actual killing but were hired by someone to be at the same place, under the same circumstances. etc.... ?


It is possible, imo, he saw the three suspects who were later cleared and used them as part of his story if he purposely called in a false story. Maybe he thought the 3 suspects wouldn't be cleared so quickly and would be enough to doubt suicide?

 

[Cubby]

They don't have to mess around with the times in order for him to 'be on duty.' If he was in uniform, driving the patrol car, towards the station to begin his shift then he was on duty. JMO

I agree with you, but then why the contradictions in msm regarding his being on duty or not? ay yi yi. this is like the weather. If you don't like the evidence wait a day, it'll change.

 

[vestigare]

Do we have any indication that they attempted life saving maneuvers on him when first found? Because I still think the gun was found under his body and that they never touched him to preserve the scene and that is why they assumed the gun was missing.

 

[night train]

1.At the risk of rehashing things I sense from the conversations here that even though the site of Lt. Gliniewicz 's death was located in the midst of a small town.. It is primarily a vacation/resort/party town and more importantly there isn't a full appreciation for how ideal this cluttered,run down, heavily wooded swampy location was for unlawful activities and escaping undetected.

2 Three suspects? Two white one black? seen meandering around before or after the shooting? I don't understand the strong impulse to believe all 3 were ever together anywhere besides the cement plant.. An ideal secluded meeting spot with low profile entry/exit routes.

 

[cady]

Anyone know if the Coroner would have had access to his Medical Records at the time of autopsy?. If there had been a diagnosis of cancer, would the coroner know that? If he was solely looking for a cause of death, I know that cancer would not factor in because he died of a gunshot wound, but as Vestigare said, it could certainly be a factor in a suicide. JMO

 

[cady]

Do we have any indication that they attempted life saving maneuvers on him when first found? Because I still think the gun was found under his body and that they never touched him to preserve the scene and that is why they assumed the gun was missing.

I DID hear only once that the gun was found "with his remains". JMO

 

[vestigare]

Anyone know if the Coroner would have had access to his Medical Records at the time of autopsy?. If there had been a diagnosis of cancer, would the coroner know that? If he was solely looking for a cause of death, I know that cancer would not factor in because he died of a gunshot wound, but as Vestigare said, it could certainly be a factor in a suicide. JMO

Under federal law, the confidentiality of patient health information generally continues after the patient's death. The federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) “privacy rule” generally prohibits health care providers and other covered entities from disclosing a decedent's protected health information to anyone other than the decedent's personal representative. The personal representative could then choose to keep the information confidential.

There are certain exceptions to the privacy rule—situations where covered entities are allowed to disclose information without the person's authorization. Some of these exceptions tie in to requirements in state law. Thus, while the General Assembly cannot alter the HIPAA requirements, there could be situations where a change in state law would affect the permissibility under HIPAA of the disclosure of a deceased person's health information.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think he planned on committing suicide. He seen 3 guys while driving to the spot of a desolated area. So he simply mentions the 3 guys he seen before committing suicide. Just to throw off LE. So maybe he tried to temporarily frame 3 passers-by knowing that they would be cleared later and his death would still be investigated as a homicide so more benefits would go to his family.

Btw. I think a LT in uniform and squad car is mostly considered on duty. Because if something happens; They are still force to respond. Now if he was on his day off than that would be considered off duty.

 

[vestigare]

Anyone know if the Coroner would have had access to his Medical Records at the time of autopsy?. If there had been a diagnosis of cancer, would the coroner know that? If he was solely looking for a cause of death, I know that cancer would not factor in because he died of a gunshot wound, but as Vestigare said, it could certainly be a factor in a suicide. JMO

Some of the exceptions to the privacy rule would likely only apply to a patient who was still alive, while others could apply to a deceased patient. There are also some that apply specifically to the deceased. For example, covered entities may disclose protected health information to (1) funeral directors as necessary for them to carry out their duties, consistent with applicable law and (2) coroners or medical examiners to identify a deceased person, determine the cause of death, and perform other duties authorized by law (45 C.F.R. § 164.512(g)). Covered entities may also disclose protected health information about someone who has died to a law enforcement official for the purpose of alerting law enforcement of the person's death if the covered entity suspects that the death may have resulted from criminal conduct (45 C.F.R. § 164.512(f)(4)).

 

[Cubby]

The reason the investigators are mad at the coroner is because he is releasing information they could use if and when a perp is ever caught. Questions such as those below could be used to validate whether this person was actually there or not, and it is also information that only the cops and the perp himself would know.

1) What happened that morning when Officer Gliniewicz began to approach you ?

2) Was there a struggle between the two of you, and where did it happen exactly?

3) Did you shoot him ? How many times did you shoot him ? Who's gun did you shoot him with ?

4) How many shot did you fire ? How many shots hit him ? How close were you to him when you pulled the trigger ?

5) How did you manage to get hold of his gun ? Did your friends help you ambush him ?

6)Which way did you run after you shot him ? Where did you throw the gun you shot him with ?

7) Did you grab him by the arm, hand, neck, head, leg, etc ??........(For DNA matching )

8) What kind of shoes did you have on ? What about your friends, what were they wearing ?

9) How did you leave the scene, walking or driving ? What about your friends ? How did the three of you get there that morning ?



Every one of these questions are questions that the cops may know the answer to and the perp(s) would also know. The perps are the only ones that would know these answers for a fact. LE can match up his answers to verify if he was really there or not. If this information makes it out to the general public, than just about any clown out there could claim to be the shooter based on what he read in the newspaper.
It's that kind of information they fear will be leaked out by the coroner and "jeopardize" things for them.

I understand their frustration to some degree, but I also understand that completely shutting out the public is a huge mistake. All that does is fuel rampant speculation of exactly the kind we are seeing here. They should and could release certain information that would help shore up the public's confidence that this story actually happened the way it was told in the beginning. For instance, just step forward and say "We have undeniable PROOF there were three unidentified persons at the scene with Gliniewicz that morning." Period. They really don't need to offer much more than that, and could still retain plenty of "secret evidence" for their interrogation process.

That statement in itself would be good enough for most people. LE won't do that though, which is the entire problem. There are many things they could tell the public in order to dampen speculation and stop the rumors, but for some reason they have chosen not to. Due to this information "blackout", the public is feeling as though they are being lied to and shunned, and apparently so is the coroner himself.

If they have absolutely no proof that these three people ever existed, then that is going to be a whole different ball game. Personally, I think they probably do, but any and all information pertinent to that evidence is being withheld, even from the coroner.

It's a swampy area. What's in a swamp ? Mud, sand, dirt. If you have three sets of footprints at the scene besides Gliniewicz, then release that information. It wouldn't jeopardize anything, and it would go a long way in shutting up all the armchair detectives.

What if the reason they haven't said they have undeniable proof three men were there is because they don't have undeniable proof?

When I was stuck in a swamp in the NW burbs (directly behind Prairie State Select Sires on Rt. 20 in Pingree Grove/Hampshire- bulls, BIG bulls and they were making all kind of noise) I don't know that the mud didn't just fill back in due to the vacuum pressure after pulling my foot out. It was almost up to me knees.

It was hard to get the swamp smell off me after that incident. It never came out of my shoes. They had to be replaced.

I just don't know how three people could not only escape a swamp unnoticed by as many agencies that were involved in the search, but a person reeks, their clothes and shoes reek. How did they avoid anyone smelling them too when they arrived wherever they were headed?

 

[vestigare]

LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS<br>
No benefit can be paid:<br>
(1)If the death or permanent and total disability was caused by the intentional misconductof the public safety officer or by such officer's intention to bring about his or her own death or permanent and total disability.<br>
(2)If the public safety officer was voluntarily intoxicated at the time of death or permanent and total disability.<br>
(3)If the public safety officer was performing his or her duties in a grossly negligentmanner at the time of death or permanent and total disability.(4)To a claimant whose actions were a substantial contributing factor to the death of thepublic safety officer(s).


From the Public Safety Officers Benefits Act which can be downloaded online.:facepalm:

 

[Elley Mae]

The officer was found in a marshy area, stripped of his gun and other gear, Lake County Undersheriff Raymond Rose told the Chicago Tribune.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/2015...er-cop-shot-and-killed-near-chicago/71522142/
CDT September 1, 2015

 

[Keefer]

Yes, we are talking about a very well trained and motivated individual. Here is just one possibility: One of the perps might have " surrendered", the other one or two could have outflanked the Lt. As they (other two) closed the distance the Lt. Who was no doubt motivated and trained to scan around his 360 could have gotten a shot off if he heard,felt or saw the other two. The closest one to the the Lt. Could have wrestled his gun away and shot him with it. This scenario points to the other three being " trained" in this sort of thing.