IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[Solitaryone]

That's all true. But just because 2 random white guys and a black friend happened to be nearby buying a drink that does not mean they were ever seen by Lt G and used by him. If they showed up on a store surveillance video then they would be interviewed and checked out. but that still does not mean that Lt G was thinking of them when he called in. JMO

True, and I hope Lt.CG didn't radio in three people he actually saw. I hope you're right. If this is a suicide, and Lt.CG never saw the three who have been id'd and cleared, then I think it's telling that there is no trace of the vaguely described three males. If this was a suicide either Lt.CG saw the three or he made them up, and I wonder if we'll ever know which.

 

[cady]

I doubt there would be a 'trio' after the shooting. I imagine they would have immediately split up and ran in different directions to escape.
And there might be evidence of the trio. We don't know whose DNA they have. Or what other evidence they are sitting on. JMO

Yeah, eventually a trio would split up...but I find it odd that back-up arrived in 2 minutes and found CG 8 minutes later, but from the time they arrived they did not report seeing ANYONE running away, or hear any one of three people. I realize that they were focused on finding CG, but I think cops are trained to be alert and are able to multi-task. If and when the task force can provide evidence of a homicide, I'll unabashedly put it in the homicide evidence basket. So, far, it's empty. JMO

 

[al66pine]

I found just a portion of the property near the subdivision for sale and it was 27 acres. Plenty of space to do some hunting. And that is just part of it. Maybe half.

Is 27 acres 'plenty of space' to hunt on?
A real est agent in a 'sportsman's paradise' region once told me, "Owner of 5, 10, 20, or 40 ac, firing a gun on his parcel, is not hunting on just his own land; he's hunting on multiple adjoining tracts as well." (because of the distances bullets travel).

Say, this 27 ac. (~.041 sq mi) is a bit < 5 ac x 6 ac (rounding) or ~1050 ft by ~1260 ft (rounding).
IDK what guns, ammo, or prey are envisioned, but imo seems real est agent's pronouncement may be true.

Of course, just raw #'s and max ranges 5400 ft - 17,025 ft* of selected guns below.
Owner/hunter may be sufficiently safety minded to calculate this. Or not.

And --- any ordinance against discharging firearm in Fox Lake city limits? Not that a law would prevent some ppl.

My apologies if I'm misunderstanding point about hunting & acreage. Or could be guilty of very baaaad math.

_____________________________________________________________
* from Table: Maximum Range of Ammunition
45 ACP......................................1800 yds
30-06* Springfield......................5675 yds
^ http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DomnaAntoniadis.shtml

o

 

[night train]

I don't think that anyone said that a trio as described by CG is or was an impossibility, only that the only one spotted on video surveillance was found to have nothing to do with this case and that no other trio as described was witnessed immediately after the shooting, and there is no evidence of a trio at the scene. JMO

Impossibilty ? No,what a few people have said (if I may paraphrase) was given Fox Lake's demographics it was highly unlikely for a Black person to be one of the trio.Some have even speculated that Lt.JG may have had reason/motive to include a Black male in his limited description.

 

[al66pine]

"Originally Posted by Cubby There is no evidence drugs had anything to do with this case. I knew someone who dealt drugs many many years ago. No serious dealer would be dealing out of an area such as the vacant cement plant. The person I knew who dealt did it out of his house and anyone he sold to had to stay for at least an hour to avoid traffic coming and going. The other did it right on HS grounds way back when many HS's in the area had outside smoking area's for students. Too obvious at a place like the cement plant."

Dealing drugs on or close to HS grounds seems 'too obvious' as well, but they^ did, so maybe hiding in plain sight worked?
I still see groups of kids hanging around, coming, going, just at school prop lines. Maybe still a good place to deal? IDK.

Maybe dealing drugs by hiding in plain sight at cement plant works too? IDK.

 

[vestigare]

Is 27 acres 'plenty of space' to hunt on?
A real est agent in a 'sportsman's paradise' region once told me, "Owner of 5, 10, 20, or 40 ac, firing a gun on his parcel, is not hunting on just his own land; he's hunting on multiple adjoining tracts as well." (because of the distances bullets travel).

Say, this 27 ac. (~.041 sq mi) is a bit < 5 ac x 6 ac (rounding) or ~1050 ft by ~1260 ft (rounding).
IDK what guns, ammo, or prey are envisioned, but imo seems real est agent's pronouncement may be true.

Of course, just raw #'s and max ranges 5400 ft - 17,025 ft* of selected guns below.
Owner/hunter may be sufficiently safety minded to calculate this. Or not.

And --- any ordinance against discharging firearm in Fox Lake city limits? Not that a law would prevent some ppl.

My apologies if I'm misunderstanding point about hunting & acreage. Or could be guilty of very baaaad math.

_____________________________________________________________
* from Table: Maximum Range of Ammunition
45 ACP......................................1800 yds
30-06* Springfield......................5675 yds
^ http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DomnaAntoniadis.shtml

o

Did I say it was hunting with fire arms?
Filnenko said Bow Hunting was common on that land.

That is plenty of land to bow hunt.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Only his family knows if he gave them a heart felt speech prior to this. If he was saddened by missing the Explorer Program then he would be more sadder when it comes to family.

But if he wanted to commit suicide the next day while making it look like a on duty death; Would he really have mentioned his sorrow about the program the day before?

 

[vestigare]

Impossibilty ? No,what a few people have said (if I may paraphrase) was given Fox Lake's demographics it was highly unlikely for a Black person to be one of the trio.Some have even speculated that Lt.JG may have had reason/motive to include a Black male in his limited description.

You paraphrased me incorrectly just so you know.....

 

[Tillicum]

Is 27 acres 'plenty of space' to hunt on?
A real est agent in a 'sportsman's paradise' region once told me, "Owner of 5, 10, 20, or 40 ac, firing a gun on his parcel, is not hunting on just his own land; he's hunting on multiple adjoining tracts as well." (because of the distances bullets travel).

Say, this 27 ac. (~.041 sq mi) is a bit < 5 ac x 6 ac (rounding) or ~1050 ft by ~1260 ft (rounding).
IDK what guns, ammo, or prey are envisioned, but imo seems real est agent's pronouncement may be true.

Of course, just raw #'s and max ranges 5400 ft - 17,025 ft* of selected guns below.
Owner/hunter may be sufficiently safety minded to calculate this. Or not.

And --- any ordinance against discharging firearm in Fox Lake city limits? Not that a law would prevent some ppl.

My apologies if I'm misunderstanding point about hunting & acreage. Or could be guilty of very baaaad math.

_____________________________________________________________
* from Table: Maximum Range of Ammunition
45 ACP......................................1800 yds
30-06* Springfield......................5675 yds
^ http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DomnaAntoniadis.shtml

o

IMO any hunter worth their salt wouldn't shoot at their living target from more than an 80-100 yard range tops.

 

[vestigare]

Only his family knows if he gave them a heart felt speech prior to this. If he was saddened by missing the Explorer Program then he would be more sadder when it comes to family.

But if he wanted to commit suicide the next day while making it look like a on duty death; Would he really have mentioned his sorrow about the program the day before?

Sure. But then I don't think that talk with the mayor was about the explorers. I think the mayor wanted us to think well of Joe so he told us a nice story of what was probably just a small part of what was actually discussed.

 

[vestigare]

IMO any hunter worth their salt wouldn't shoot at their living target from more than an 80-100 yard range tops.

And Bow Hunting usually isn't usually more than about 30 yards.

 

[Montjoy]

Well then, OK. I guess that means that no matter what they determine, you won't believe them. Regardless of evidence or anything, if it is not determined to be a suicide and no arrests are made, you are 100% convinced this is a suicide and nothing will change your mind.

Woah -- that really isn't fair. I didn't say any of those things! I never said that I won't believe their determination, nor did I say that I'm 100% convinced that this is a suicide and that nothing would change my mind.

 

[cady]

Impossibilty ? No,what a few people have said (if I may paraphrase) was given Fox Lake's demographics it was highly unlikely for a Black person to be one of the trio.Some have even speculated that Lt.JG may have had reason/motive to include a Black male in his limited description.

I think that IF CG fabricated a trio, he either saw that trio somewhere, sometime that morning OR he was calculating in his description. It is possible that KNOWING he was making this up, he may have chosen that number and description thinking that it was not likely to be a group that WOULD be found. OR it could have been calculated to alarm LE that it was perhaps a domestic terrorist assault on an officer. I do NOT KNOW, but I do know that Homeland Security and Marshalls and FBI were immediately on the case, in full force. JMO I do not think that he just pulled that description out of a hat. He either saw a group of that description, and used that, or he crafted a description. JMO

 

[al66pine]

Did I say it was hunting with fire arms?
Filnenko said Bow Hunting was common on that land.

That is plenty of land to bow hunt.

Oh, right, right, right, not firearms. Thanks for pointing this out.
As SNL's Emily Litella/ Gilda Radner said, "Never mind."

 

[cady]

OR, they were really there and they really were tricky and they killed him and they disappeared without a trace of themselves or their spaceship. JMO JMO JMO

 

[Chuz Life]

I think they know his car was in the area for 20 minutes and somehow that info morphed into being on foot for 20 minutes. There is no real way to know he whether he was inside or outside of his squad car for 20 minutes, but logically it would seem he spent some time on foot so he could make sure the area appeared as he wanted it to, hence the signs of a struggle to the area, but not on his person.

This is almost exactly what my response was going to be.

Thanks, Cubby

 

[Chuz Life]

I would think that since the three were seen on video, they had to have been seen in the area near the cement plant about the same time for the three who were located to be id'd and cleared. This is why I think Lt.CG saw them and incorporated a scenario involving the three. If the three that were cleared were nowhere near the area of the cement plant that morning, I don't understand why they would have been said by Filenko to be located, id'd and cleared. In other words, if these three were nowhere near that area at roughly the time Lt.CG was there and made the radio call, how could the three have been located and id'd at all?

I would like to add that he may have imagined the three individuals into his staged scenario, subconsciously. We have no way to know how much or how little thought he really put into it.

 

[night train]

Impossibilty ? No,what a few people have said (if I may paraphrase) was given Fox Lake's demographics it was highly unlikely for a Black person to be one of the trio.Some have even speculated that Lt.JG may have had reason/motive to include a Black male in his limited description.

You paraphrased me incorrectly just so you know.....

Me= BBM

Your attention to detail is generally unparalleled,however it seems I made it clear that I was humbly paraphrasing "a few people" not only you.

 

[Cubby]

"Originally Posted by Cubby There is no evidence drugs had anything to do with this case. I knew someone who dealt drugs many many years ago. No serious dealer would be dealing out of an area such as the vacant cement plant. The person I knew who dealt did it out of his house and anyone he sold to had to stay for at least an hour to avoid traffic coming and going. The other did it right on HS grounds way back when many HS's in the area had outside smoking area's for students. Too obvious at a place like the cement plant."

Dealing drugs on or close to HS grounds seems 'too obvious' as well, but they^ did, so maybe hiding in plain sight worked?
I still see groups of kids hanging around, coming, going, just at school prop lines. Maybe still a good place to deal? IDK.

Maybe dealing drugs by hiding in plain sight at cement plant works too? IDK.

The person who I knew who dealt in HS was in HS way back in the 70's. Early 70's. Someone dealing at a vacant cement plant would stick out like a sore thumb. Especially when it was known the area was routinely patrolled.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah, eventually a trio would split up...but I find it odd that back-up arrived in 2 minutes and found CG 8 minutes later, but from the time they arrived they did not report seeing ANYONE running away, or hear any one of three people. I realize that they were focused on finding CG, but I think cops are trained to be alert and are able to multi-task. If and when the task force can provide evidence of a homicide, I'll unabashedly put it in the homicide evidence basket. So, far, it's empty. JMO

How would they have seen anyone if they did not arrive until 2 minutes later? Wouldnt the perps have run off already? And in the opposite direction of the road leading in.