IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Another thing about the suspects being on drugs. We'd have to add being able to outsmart the entire 400 plus involved in the man hunt. I have a hard time thinking school ditching teenagers or drop outs who are under the influence could outsmart so many and escape undetected. We would have to really dumb down all LEO involved for that theory to be possible,

We don't know if they were 'on' drugs or not. Lots of dealers abstain from usage and sell to make a big profit. There could have been a drug deal going down and no one was high at the time.
 
This town must be small. Because a LT is never ever ever expected at a scene or working the line of duty in a particular area before their start time.

A LT is a high rank for a reason. It means they are above seargants at least.

So why would a LT be out there. When he could have been in the office and chilling out at the beginning of his shift.

A LT is not starting a surveillance at 7am. Jmo

bbm

It was my impression that this task was either handed to him or he took it upon himself. Either way it was going to be an extremely hot day. If I knew I had to patrol this area, especially on foot, I'd do it as early in the day as I could. And it was closer to 7:32 than 7:00. Please don't stretch the known information to support your theories.
 
That 20 minutes on foot scenario requires that Lt.J would have roughed up an area to make it appear there were signs of a struggle and shot the lower portion of his bulletproof vest but didn't (if current info is correct) make at least some effort to mess up his clothing or aquire a small abrasion or two.Heck,I'd at least roll in some mud or dirt.

Then throw in the gps. I he did have gps on his vest radio, (which comes from the head of the task force himself, but disregarded by some) then they would be able to tell if he was in the location he was found before he made the 1st call. If someone was to stage a suicide, and spend 20 minutes to do so, he's not going to a spot that he hasn't scoped out beforehand. I'm talking about the exact location of his body.

Now consider the GR scent trail leaving that exact location.

IF gps does confirm that he was at this location prior to the call, and also along the GR tracking route, and explain the one casing supposedly being 100 feet away, (unnamed source, and yes he could have threw it) Then I will have to put more merit towards the suicide theory.
 
That 20 minutes on foot scenario requires that Lt.J would have roughed up an area to make it appear there were signs of a struggle and shot the lower portion of his bulletproof vest but didn't (if current info is correct) make at least some effort to mess up his clothing or aquire a small abrasion or two.Heck,I'd at least roll in some mud or dirt.

Remembering the fact that whatever happened will have to fit the evidence we have, the answer to your question would have to fit the evidence as well. Correct?

We know that the Lt was there for the 20 minutes as the GPS in his car indicated. However, we don't what what his state of mind was. We don't know if he was crying or angry, etc - we only know he was there and that he had 20 minutes to do SOMETHING before he radioed in at 7:52 am.

(Assuming that this actually was a suicide of some sort) In my opinion, we can not assume that the Lt had everything meticulously planned out. Neither should we assume that he was following such a plan to the letter.

What we do know is the amount of time between his first radio report (7:52 am) of the three individuals and the time he said to go ahead and start a backup(7:55 am).

That was the last moment that we know for sure that he was alive.

We also know the time that the backup officers arrived (Between 7:57 & 8:01 am) and the time that the arriving officers found his body (8:09 am.)

That is 17 Minutes total.

It's worth noting that none of the arriving officers are claiming that they heard any shots. So that 2nd shot must have been fired almost immediately after the Lt told dispatch to "go ahead and start" backups to his location.

One possible explanation (that fits the evidence we have so far) is that the Lt was there and more or less struggling with himself and the decision on whether or not to kill himself and make it look like he was killed in action. He may have spent the whole 20 minutes walking around, pacing back and forth trying to make that final decision. It's possible that something completely unexpected caused him to go forward with the decision. It may have been a traffic noise, a cell phone call , or something else that made him realize the longer his car sat there - the more likely someone would possibly interfere with his plan. Again, who knows for sure?

But, let's imagine that by the time he decides to go through with it, the 20 minutes was wasted.

Now the Lt may think that he has to move fast. At 7:52 am, he radios in to report his location and the fake suspects. Now he's committed - he shoots himself in the side of his vest, does a few things to make it look like a struggle (but not near as much as he could have done if he started sooner) and 3 minutes later, after walking another distance of 100 feet or so, he radios in and says they are headed into the swamp, as he heads in toward the swamp himself. Dispatch then asks if he needs another unit and he says "yeah, go ahead and send somebody." He now has less than 5 minutes to fire the 2nd (fatal) shot. We know this because any more time than that and backup officers would likely have heard the shot.

This (above) is how I think it it might have went down as it fits the evidence we have so far. I would like to add that all of these facts also jibe with my theory that the Lt may have staged a fake encounter and may not have intended to kill himself. I still think it is plausible that the Lt may have only wanted to fake the encounter and shooting. In that case - he wouldn't need to stage anything more than a minimal amount of evidence of a struggle.
 
As far as the benefit for dying in the line of duty, I'm not sure how I actually feel about this if it turns out "undetermined." I feel that that particular death benefit should be reserved for those cases that are ruled homicide. To me that benefit isn't a "given" and should be subject to a higher standard of proof. That said, I hope the family is able to collect all of his pension and any life insurance there may have been.

I'm on the fence with this as well. I'm sure this is, or will be discussed in great detail for all involved in the decision. I have no idea if there is a protocol in a case like this. If no protocol exists, I would have to think that they would put the families financial situation into consideration. Which would include the financial gain the family has received through donations. Meaning if the "powers that be" are also on the fence, they would consider the immediate financial situation of the family. Either way, right or wrong, if it's up to the locals, and not some code entry from an insurance company employee, all aspects will be put to heavy debate.
 
If no protocol exists, I would have to think that they would put the families financial situation into consideration. Which would include the financial gain the family has received through donations.

Perhaps they would -- in fact, perhaps it has taken so long to make a determination precisely because they're considering the family's financial situation. But if they are doing so, I would consider it totally, completely wrong, and bordering on corrupt. External factors like a family's finances should have absolutely no bearing on a determination of MOD.
 
Perhaps they would -- in fact, perhaps it has taken so long to make a determination precisely because they're considering the family's financial situation. But if they are doing so, I would consider it totally, completely wrong, and bordering on corrupt. External factors like a family's finances should have absolutely no bearing on a determination of MOD.

I didn't mean to imply that they are taking so long to determine MOD, and I'm not sure you did either. I honestly can't agree or disagree with you about right or wrong, external factors, borderline corruption....I just don't know what to think about this at this time.


Edit.
I just realized that you were referring to MOD. That was not my perspective of my post. I was speculating as to how MOD would apply to pension pay AFTER it has been determined, If determined unknown.

I hope that clarifies what I was trying to convey.

​bbm
 
I would imagine if he regularly inspected this area he was aware of the lack of cctv.

Other people within the community who are up to no good might be aware the area lacks cameras too.
The Precision Chrome guy stated there was a security system in place but it didn't work (he didn't indicate it was broken). Odd.
Anyone who ever worked for PC might know that too.
 
Remembering the fact that whatever happened will have to fit the evidence we have, the answer to your question would have to fit the evidence as well. Correct?

We know that the Lt was there for the 20 minutes as the GPS in his car indicated. However, we don't what what his state of mind was. We don't know if he was crying or angry, etc - we only know he was there and that he had 20 minutes to do SOMETHING before he radioed in at 7:52 am.

(Assuming that this actually was a suicide of some sort) In my opinion, we can not assume that the Lt had everything meticulously planned out. Neither should we assume that he was following such a plan to the letter.

What we do know is the amount of time between his first radio report (7:52 am) of the three individuals and the time he said to go ahead and start a backup(7:55 am).

That was the last moment that we know for sure that he was alive.

We also know the time that the backup officers arrived (Between 7:57 & 8:01 am) and the time that the arriving officers found his body (8:09 am.)

That is 17 Minutes total.

It's worth noting that none of the arriving officers are claiming that they heard any shots. So that 2nd shot must have been fired almost immediately after the Lt told dispatch to "go ahead and start" backups to his location.

One possible explanation (that fits the evidence we have so far) is that the Lt was there and more or less struggling with himself and the decision on whether or not to kill himself and make it look like he was killed in action. He may have spent the whole 20 minutes walking around, pacing back and forth trying to make that final decision. It's possible that something completely unexpected caused him to go forward with the decision. It may have been a traffic noise, a cell phone call , or something else that made him realize the longer his car sat there - the more likely someone would possibly interfere with his plan. Again, who knows for sure?

But, let's imagine that by the time he decides to go through with it, the 20 minutes was wasted.

Now the Lt may think that he has to move fast. At 7:52 am, he radios in to report his location and the fake suspects. Now he's committed - he shoots himself in the side of his vest, does a few things to make it look like a struggle (but not near as much as he could have done if he started sooner) and 3 minutes later, after walking another distance of 100 feet or so, he radios in and says they are headed into the swamp, as he heads in toward the swamp himself. Dispatch then asks if he needs another unit and he says "yeah, go ahead and send somebody." He now has less than 5 minutes to fire the 2nd (fatal) shot. We know this because any more time than that and backup officers would likely have heard the shot.

This (above) is how I think it it might have went down as it fits the evidence we have so far. I would like to add that all of these facts also jibe with my theory that the Lt may have staged a fake encounter and may not have intended to kill himself. I still think it is plausible that the Lt may have only wanted to fake the encounter and shooting. In that case - he wouldn't need to stage anything more than a minimal amount of evidence of a struggle.

Really well written,thank you for putting that together.The radio calls,the sense of the clock quickly ticking down,time growing shorter as final thoughts ricochet through the mind at 1,000 miles a minute- Powerful stuff.....

Life's often disorganized,chotic and things don't always go as planned.I imagine One's last moments before ending their life might be the same yet greatly magnified.

In trying to imagine what his few remaining minutes were like if this was a staged suicide,I could imagine any semblance of a plan disappearing,obvious details overlooked....
 
Doesn't the Mayor review resumes and appoint a Chief of Police? The Antioch Mayor did. This Mayor was reportedly a dear friend of CG. Perhaps part of their 90 minute conversation was his explanation of why he would not be appointing CG to the position. Perhaps, whatever the reason or reasons were, was the catalyst for him deciding to take his own life. Food for thought. JMO
 
Is there any chance the Lt. was engaging in some kind of personal, private activity when, let's say, a few local people, while cutting through the area, startled him/them. He realized they saw him/them and since he knew who they were, he realized they knew him\them too?
Does anyone else think what happened could involve a personal reason outside of PD problems?
 
Remembering the fact that whatever happened will have to fit the evidence we have, the answer to your question would have to fit the evidence as well. Correct?

We know that the Lt was there for the 20 minutes as the GPS in his car indicated. However, we don't what what his state of mind was. We don't know if he was crying or angry, etc - we only know he was there and that he had 20 minutes to do SOMETHING before he radioed in at 7:52 am.

(Assuming that this actually was a suicide of some sort) In my opinion, we can not assume that the Lt had everything meticulously planned out. Neither should we assume that he was following such a plan to the letter.

What we do know is the amount of time between his first radio report (7:52 am) of the three individuals and the time he said to go ahead and start a backup(7:55 am).

That was the last moment that we know for sure that he was alive.

We also know the time that the backup officers arrived (Between 7:57 & 8:01 am) and the time that the arriving officers found his body (8:09 am.)

That is 17 Minutes total.

It's worth noting that none of the arriving officers are claiming that they heard any shots. So that 2nd shot must have been fired almost immediately after the Lt told dispatch to "go ahead and start" backups to his location.

One possible explanation (that fits the evidence we have so far) is that the Lt was there and more or less struggling with himself and the decision on whether or not to kill himself and make it look like he was killed in action. He may have spent the whole 20 minutes walking around, pacing back and forth trying to make that final decision. It's possible that something completely unexpected caused him to go forward with the decision. It may have been a traffic noise, a cell phone call , or something else that made him realize the longer his car sat there - the more likely someone would possibly interfere with his plan. Again, who knows for sure?

But, let's imagine that by the time he decides to go through with it, the 20 minutes was wasted.

Now the Lt may think that he has to move fast. At 7:52 am, he radios in to report his location and the fake suspects. Now he's committed - he shoots himself in the side of his vest, does a few things to make it look like a struggle (but not near as much as he could have done if he started sooner) and 3 minutes later, after walking another distance of 100 feet or so, he radios in and says they are headed into the swamp, as he heads in toward the swamp himself. Dispatch then asks if he needs another unit and he says "yeah, go ahead and send somebody." He now has less than 5 minutes to fire the 2nd (fatal) shot. We know this because any more time than that and backup officers would likely have heard the shot.

This (above) is how I think it it might have went down as it fits the evidence we have so far. I would like to add that all of these facts also jibe with my theory that the Lt may have staged a fake encounter and may not have intended to kill himself. I still think it is plausible that the Lt may have only wanted to fake the encounter and shooting. In that case - he wouldn't need to stage anything more than a minimal amount of evidence of a struggle.


I'm going to throw this question out there with the above quoted post because it discusses the timeline.......

Has anyone other than myself wondered why the dispatcher didn't hear a gun shot? I kind of assumed if he was interupted while on the radio the dispatcher would have heard it. Or heard something....... He's in pursuit and then it's like he just hangs up. If he was in pursuit, wouldn't it be likely he would stay on the radio until back up arrived?

There is just something weird about the timing with the radio call, being shot by someone else and the disconnection of the radio call. It's not like someone would just wait for him to get off the radio being that close to shoot him at close range.

The way that call ended just seems so odd.
 
If I am not mistaken the button on the radio would have to be engaged (pushed in) for him to talk in order for dispatch to hear. If he is not pushing the talk button in then dispatch can not hear. jmo idk
 
Is there any chance the Lt. was engaging in some kind of personal, private activity when, let's say, a few local people, while cutting through the area, startled him/them. He realized they saw him/them and since he knew who they were, he realized they knew him\them too?
Does anyone else think what happened could involve a personal reason outside of PD problems?

I think that it could be some personal activity, but he was a representative of the PD so, peripherally, the PD is always related to his activity. If, as I think is probable, he committed suicide, he even chose to be on duty wearing his uniform to do it. JMO

ADD: I don't think that anyone witnessed his demise in that location.
 
This town must be small. Because a LT is never ever ever expected at a scene or working the line of duty in a particular area before their start time.

A LT is a high rank for a reason. It means they are above seargants at least.

So why would a LT be out there. When he could have been in the office and chilling out at the beginning of his shift.

A LT is not starting a surveillance at 7am. Jmo

You know I didn't say anything about the Lt. being in a patrol vehicle because I know times change, but my father was LE 32 years & the last ten years he was a court liaison officer and the ten years before that for was in charge of communications/dispatch. He was on the streets so to speak. So yes I thought it odd as well that a Lt. would be on patrol. jmo idk
 
Me= BBM

Your attention to detail is generally unparalleled,however it seems I made it clear that I was humbly paraphrasing "a few people" not only you.

Yes, and my post in no way diminished or negated the other "few people" you were referencing but as I was ONE of a few people you had quoted and posted directly to regarding the trio makeup I wanted it known to anyone else that assumed I was being referenced that I had not in fact said what you paraphrased.

Those that make up the "few people" can answer for themselves.
 
How would they have seen anyone if they did not arrive until 2 minutes later? Wouldnt the perps have run off already? And in the opposite direction of the road leading in.

What opposite direction? They have no way of knowing what direction the police would come nor do we know what direction they arrived from.
 
Right??? I've been saying this as well. Many are pointing to suicide because of what "isn't there." What about what isn't there on the other side of things that should be there if it was staged? I mean, I would have beaten the crap out of myself, it would have been a big old mess, because I'd want it to look like I didn't go down without a fight!

We don't know what he was thinking. If you had a beat up fight with someone where it was hand to hand there would be a load of evidence from that person. Perhaps Joe realized that so didn't bother. Perhaps he didn't want to look like he got overpowered by some punk and lost a fistfight. We just dint know. You can not investigate a crime from the perspective of "I would have" and "what if". you have to use the evidence you find no matter how contradictory to your common sense that is.


As I have been saying from the start we don't know how much he planned this out nor how logical he was on the best of days nevermind during a suicide.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
194
Guests online
3,234
Total visitors
3,428

Forum statistics

Threads
604,603
Messages
18,174,444
Members
232,746
Latest member
OffTrailMeanderer
Back
Top