GUILTY IL - Riley Fox, 3, Wilmington, 6 June 2004

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genecam said:
Hate is a pretty strong word to throw around. I don't hate them. I just find them despicable. A shining example of what's wrong with the criminal justice system in this country.

It's not a Will County problem. It's not an Illinois problem. It's a national problem.

Go to the Innocence Project and Center on Wrongful Convictions web sites. You might really find the extent of the problem eye-opening.
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We can go back and forth all day on this.. but we will never agree...
You see the bad in LE, I see the good - first hand. There are good and bad people in every profession - LE is not exempt. But you can not generalize. I agree that there are wrongful convictions... and I also believe LE believes they have the right person - and so does the jury who convicts them. I do not believe there is some sick agenda to put innocent people in prison. I also believe that there are more guilty people who go free, than there are innocent people who go to prison. Not that it makes it right, but it goes both ways.
Are you a cop? Have you ever been a cop? Maybe you should try walking in those shoes for awhile... You're damned if you do, damned if you dont.
 
lisag said:
We can go back and forth all day on this.. but we will never agree...
You see the bad in LE, I see the good - first hand. There are good and bad people in every profession - LE is not exempt. But you can not generalize. I agree that there are wrongful convictions... and I also believe LE believes they have the right person - and so does the jury who convicts them. I do not believe there is some sick agenda to put innocent people in prison. I also believe that there are more guilty people who go free, than there are innocent people who go to prison. Not that it makes it right, but it goes both ways.
Are you a cop? Have you ever been a cop? Maybe you should try walking in those shoes for awhile... You're damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Click to expand...

I have two police officers in my immediate family. I see both the good AND the bad in LE. I have NEVER minimized the danger those in LE face every day.

I do not believe there is a sick agenda to put innocent people in prison. I believe - no, I KNOW - there are people in LE - police and prosecutors - who are more interested in getting a conviction - by any means (like Jon Burge) - especially in a highly visible, politically-charged case like this one and others - than in taking the time and effort to find out if they have the right person. Like you, I hope there are not a lot of these types in LE.

I don't have to be a cop to see that the system is broken. In fact, by not being a cop, I think I can view the situation more objectively.

As I have said in the past, people who choose to be in professions that deal in life and death need to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us.

In this case, whether it was intentional or not, Will County LE fell far short of meeting the standard.

We seem to have strayed a bit here. I was just reporting Officer Ruettiger's death. I cannot understand why, in response, you felt compelled to launch a personal attack against me.
 
genecam said:
Hate is a pretty strong word to throw around. I don't hate them. I just find them despicable. A shining example of what's wrong with the criminal justice system in this country.

It's not a Will County problem. It's not an Illinois problem. It's a national problem.

Go to the Innocence Project and Center on Wrongful Convictions web sites. You might really find the extent of the problem eye-opening.
Click to expand...

There are many things that are unjust that happen in this world and if you so unhappy about the way the system works then I have one question. What are you personally doing to change it? I was always taught you can not complain about something unless you are willing to help fix it. So I ask you what are you personally doing to change the criminal justice system? I would love to hear about the many projects I am sure you are working on with Innocence Project and Center for Wrongful Convictions.
 
crash676 said:
There are many things that are unjust that happen in this world and if you so unhappy about the way the system works then I have one question. What are you personally doing to change it? I was always taught you can not complain about something unless you are willing to help fix it. So I ask you what are you personally doing to change the criminal justice system? I would love to hear about the many projects I am sure you are working on with Innocence Project and Center for Wrongful Convictions.
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The point you make is very legitimate. I have an answer that might surprise you. However, by the sarcastic tone of your message, I doubt if you are really interested.

As I said to Lisa, I just reported Officer Ruettiger's death. I cannot understand why you and she felt compelled to launch a personal attack against me.

I am sure many people saw the good in Officer Ruettiger. However, no one is perfect. We all make mistakes. He just happened to be part of a huge one that was very public. Whether it was intentional on his part, or he just got sucked into it by Tomczak and Kaupas - we'll never know.
 
genecam said:
The point you make is very legitimate. I have an answer that might surprise you. However, by the sarcastic tone of your message, I doubt if you are really interested.

As I said to Lisa, I just reported Officer Ruettiger's death. I cannot understand why you and she felt compelled to launch a personal attack against me.

I am sure many people saw the good in Officer Ruettiger. However, no one is perfect. We all make mistakes. He just happened to be part of a huge one that was very public. Whether it was intentional on his part, or he just got sucked into it by Tomczak and Kaupas - we'll never know.
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I am very interested. I attended Northwestern and practiced law for 5 years before becoming completely burned out. I have actually worked in the Bluhm Clinic and still consult there from time to time. So when I ask perhaps I am being slightly sarcastic but am trying to see if you put your money where your mouth is so to speak. (Not meant to be an insult just a term of speech) I so often hear people complain about everything and so many of us rarely take action. I would truly like to hear your answer. I did not launch a personal attack on you I simply stated my views on Rudy as a person. Please feel free to look back at my posts. Personal attacks are rarely my style, wit and sarcasm maybe but that's another story..
 
crash676 said:
Please feel free to look back at my posts. Personal attacks are rarely my style, wit and sarcasm maybe but that's another story..
Click to expand...

Hmmm - now you're trying to make nice. Let me cogitate over it for awhile. I do agree with you. People should not just complain. They should do something about it, and I am. I don't really want to answer your question in the forum - it would reveal too much about my identity, and also you and Lisa would probably just ridicule it. If I do answer, I might send you a PM.

I won't dispute that personal attacks are RARELY your style. However, I note that you say "rarely" and not "never." I have reviewed your posts from yesterday and today and, at least regarding me, I understand why you said "rarely" and not "never." And I am a relatively thick-skinned person - more so than many here - and I have always felt I could take it as well as dish it out. However, there seems to be a sense of fairness lacking here. Like yesterday, when the moderator - whoever it is now that Tybee is gone - deleted one of my posts and left in one of Lisa's which was just as bad if not worse. There seems to be a "party line" on many of the threads here, including this one, and and those that deviate from it are often "bullied."
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/northshore/chi-fox_13sep13,1,7497853.story

"U.S. District Judge John Darrah denied their motions and set a trial date of Nov. 5, said Kathleen Zellner, who filed the suit on behalf of Fox and his wife, Melissa."

That's coming up really quick ... probably be delayed tho ... :bang:

"Darrah sealed his 37-page ruling, meaning it cannot be publicly released, as is typical. Darrah's courtroom deputy said the ruling might be published at a later date. She said she could not say why it was sealed."

:waitasec: I wonder why?
 
Crimson Sky said:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/north/chi-fox_27sep27,0,7198716.story
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Darrah's order also cites an affidavit from attorney Ryan Stephan, who said he sent the sheriff's department a letter on June 7, 2004, saying he represented the Foxes and "no further questioning of any family member should occur without his knowledge and attendance."

Tomczak filed an unsuccessful motion to dismiss the affidavit, arguing it was contradicted by the deposition testimony of Melissa and Kevin Fox.

That'll leave a mark. :slap:
 
golfmom, I understand you post. I just thought it a little interesting that all these articles came out about the same time. I don't post much and miss a lot inbetween, but the Alexander case was even noted here in this forum in regards to the Fox case cover up. There seems to be at least some info released in a few articles that had not been released before. The reason for the two DNA swabs was sort of explained by Glasgow in te Alexander article. Now, in the other articles, even the one your quoting there seems to be a lot of "disputed" info,,,,confusing to me. I mean, sometimes I have a habit of over analizing things sometimes and maybe so here. Like I said, I have missed a few postings/articles so maybe some of this has been said or addressed.
Lets take your above post for example, IF Kevin had an attorney at or before his interrogation, why didn't he bring him? Remember this attorney states he represented the family on June 7 (also kind of interesting why would you need an attorney so quick-not a judgement, just a question, look at the Stebic case out there). Seemingly Melissa deposition some how contradicts this but is still the judge allowed it. These are confusing things to me. Still there are other things in the article like the non-emergency calls to the cops. etc.. Anyway thanks for posting your view, I'm just rambling with my questions. Like I said earlier, I'm probably just over analizing----Thanks
 
dannyd said:
golfmom, I understand you post. I just thought it a little interesting that all these articles came out about the same time. I don't post much and miss a lot inbetween, but the Alexander case was even noted here in this forum in regards to the Fox case cover up. There seems to be at least some info released in a few articles that had not been released before. The reason for the two DNA swabs was sort of explained by Glasgow in te Alexander article. Now, in the other articles, even the one your quoting there seems to be a lot of "disputed" info,,,,confusing to me. I mean, sometimes I have a habit of over analizing things sometimes and maybe so here. Like I said, I have missed a few postings/articles so maybe some of this has been said or addressed.
Thanks
Click to expand...


Danny, you pose some interesting questions. I had been waiting for quite awhile to see what happened with Janet's case. Personally, I thought her allegations rang true. However, she would have to prove her complaints ... which would be tough. Really, it all boils down to a he said / she said situation.

If it was me, I would have focused more on her past performance reviews and exceptional work history. Which still leaves us with the mystery as to why she was fired.
 
dannyd said:
IF Kevin had an attorney at or before his interrogation, why didn't he bring him? Remember this attorney states he represented the family on June 7 (also kind of interesting why would you need an attorney so quick-not a judgement, just a question, look at the Stebic case out there). Seemingly Melissa deposition some how contradicts this but is still the judge allowed it. These are confusing things to me. Still there are other things in the article like the non-emergency calls to the cops. etc.. Anyway thanks for posting your view, I'm just rambling with my questions. Like I said earlier, I'm probably just over analizing----Thanks
Click to expand...

I think both Kevin and Melissa were at the point desperate to help the police. If the entire interrogation was video taped we'd have a clearer idea of the slippery slope that Kevin traveled to false confession. The reason I pulled that quote though was that the police were given notice to not talk to the Fox family without the attorney. Big NO-NO, no wonder Tomczak was trying so hard to have that tossed out. Regarding her deposition, unfortunately the news didn't report specifically what Tomczak considered a conflict. Remember, he lost the argument, so maybe there really wasn't a conflict. I'm at the point where just because Tomczak says so, isn't good enough for me. Wouldn't the judge have dismissed the affidavit if Melissa really contradicted the fact that they were represented at the time?

It's funny how we're all conditioned to think only guilty people need representation. Especially in Illinois we should know better: Lisa Cabassa; Jeanine Nicarico; Jaclyn Dowaliby; Ryan Harris; Jule Russo; Diamante Williams; Holly Staker; Dupage 7; etc. etc. etc. Have you checked out the latest with the Chicago SOS? Holy Cow! Talk about out of control, but here it's just business as usual. Lisa, if you're reading this you should check out the Chicago SOS. That's why it's so hard for me to believe any statements attributed to Melissa.

For the calls to the police, when my son went missing, I did almost exactly what Kevin did. As children we're drilled that the emergency line is for emergencies only ... somehow in my panic and confusion I discarded the option of dialing 911 -- thinking it was for medical emergencies only. I didn’t want this emergency! I was petrified. I fiddle-fuddled around calling neighbors and running around in circles for a good half hour plus before I placed the call on the non-emergency line. Fortunately for me, my son had curled up in a ball under a blanket and was sleeping so soundly he never heard us calling for him.

There are still a lot of issues from the case and the complaint that haven't been addressed. Specifically I'd like to hear more about the hide the DNA evidence game they played. And what about Tyler's interview?

I just wish they would find the SOB that killed that little girl. And, I'm so frustrated that they wasted valuable time and resources playing politics.

:twocents:
 
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