IL - Sonya Massey Shot To Death In Her Own Home by Sangamon County Deputy After Calling to Report a Prowler, Springfield 6 July 2024

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Lots of info in the article above, .... and changes the scenario a LITTLE bit.
It should never have been Police that responded. It should have been a mental health team. THIS is where we need to do better.

And if it was Police, they should have had the entire history of the recent few days of 911 calls etc. This is where there is a major lapse. This is why cops are also killed/injured in these calls. It escalates so fast and EITHER side could have a weapon. Obviously her family knew she was not well and she probably should still have been IN the hospital.
 
Kakidoll said:
Lots of info in the article above, .... and changes the scenario a LITTLE bit.
It should never have been Police that responded. It should have been a mental health team. THIS is where we need to do better.

And if it was Police, they should have had the entire history of the recent few days of 911 calls etc. This is where there is a major lapse. This is why cops are also killed/injured in these calls. It escalates so fast and EITHER side could have a weapon. Obviously her family knew she was not well and she probably should still have been IN the hospital.
Click to expand...
Problem is, if there had been an actual intruder a mental health team would have been in danger right alongside Sonya. I think we need to train police to less combative, full stop, and much less combative with those they KNOW have mental health issues. Of course, then, you'll get a few hardened criminals pretending to have schizophrenia or something so the LEOs drop their guard...so there is NO perfect solution.

I do agree she should have been in the hospital. One of the worst things this country has done is close down the mental hospitals and send the patients out to fend for themselves. Again, the places weren't perfect, and many needed not just reforms but total overhauls, but who knows how many of these kinds of deaths they prevented.

*Before any of you jump on me, yes, I know there are also issues with involuntarily confining someone regardless of their condition. There are a lot of issues that need ironed out, and until that happens, we have to find as many other ways as possible to prevent people like Sonja from losing their lives through the misunderstandings and unusual behaviors mental illnesses cause.
 
Kakidoll said:
Lots of info in the article above, .... and changes the scenario a LITTLE bit.
It should never have been Police that responded. It should have been a mental health team. THIS is where we need to do better.

And if it was Police, they should have had the entire history of the recent few days of 911 calls etc. This is where there is a major lapse. This is why cops are also killed/injured in these calls. It escalates so fast and EITHER side could have a weapon. Obviously her family knew she was not well and she probably should still have been IN the hospital.
Click to expand...

Yes, Sonya most likely should have been receiving continued treatment in a facility, but it would depend on many things one of which would be her capacity and whether she would have agreed to continued treatment if she did demonstrate capacity and understanding. She had a right to refuse treatment if she did indeed need any and if she fully understood all of her choices and what it could mean for her.
Sonya had the right to be safe in her own home regardless of whether she had a mental health illness or not and she had the right to choose to live where she wanted without fear of harm from another. If Sonya did not present as a risk to herself or to others and she demonstrated capacity, it's unlikely that much could have or would have been done.

It's a tragic story. Maybe it will highlight the many changes needed across public sector and mental health services everywhere. Unfortunately if those changes come it's because an innocent woman was murdered by someone in a position of trust and who took an oath to protect people. Makes it even more heartbreaking if that's possible

Moo
 
Lyanna said:
Yes, Sonya most likely should have been receiving continued treatment in a facility, but it would depend on many things one of which would be her capacity and whether she would have agreed to continued treatment if she did demonstrate capacity and understanding. She had a right to refuse treatment if she did indeed need any and if she fully understood all of her choices and what it could mean for her.
Sonya had the right to be safe in her own home regardless of whether she had a mental health illness or not and she had the right to choose to live where she wanted without fear of harm from another. If Sonya did not present as a risk to herself or to others and she demonstrated capacity, it's unlikely that much could have or would have been done.

It's a tragic story. Maybe it will highlight the many changes needed across public sector and mental health services everywhere. Unfortunately if those changes come it's because an innocent woman was murdered by someone in a position of trust and who took an oath to protect people. Makes it even more heartbreaking if that's possible

Moo
Click to expand...
hospitals will evaluate and even hold someone who they deem to be a threat to themselves or others. But it sounds like Sonya had been evaluated by the hospital and by mobile crisis counselors within days of her death and deemed not a threat to herself or others.

Even had she been admitted and held, the hospital, IME, is only going to offer medication and then boot the person out as soon as they have stabilized. At which point many people suffering MH issues decide they don't need the medication, stop taking it and rinse lather repeat.

ETA not to suggest Sonya was or was not taking prescribed meds, I have no idea what medication she referred to when encountering deputy Grayson, but am assuming they were prescribed for her condition.
 
tlcya said:
hospitals will evaluate and even hold someone who they deem to be a threat to themselves or others. But it sounds like Sonya had been evaluated by the hospital and by mobile crisis counselors within days of her death and deemed not a threat to herself or others.

Even had she been admitted and held, the hospital, IME, is only going to offer medication and then boot the person out as soon as they have stabilized. At which point many people suffering MH issues decide they don't need the medication, stop taking it and rinse lather repeat.
Click to expand...

Yep - it's a messed up system but that's jmo and jme both professionally and personally.
I really find it frustrating.

moo
 
Lyanna said:
Yes, Sonya most likely should have been receiving continued treatment in a facility, but it would depend on many things one of which would be her capacity and whether she would have agreed to continued treatment if she did demonstrate capacity and understanding. She had a right to refuse treatment if she did indeed need any and if she fully understood all of her choices and what it could mean for her.
Sonya had the right to be safe in her own home regardless of whether she had a mental health illness or not and she had the right to choose to live where she wanted without fear of harm from another. If Sonya did not present as a risk to herself or to others and she demonstrated capacity, it's unlikely that much could have or would have been done.

It's a tragic story. Maybe it will highlight the many changes needed across public sector and mental health services everywhere. Unfortunately if those changes come it's because an innocent woman was murdered by someone in a position of trust and who took an oath to protect people. Makes it even more heartbreaking if that's possible

Moo
Click to expand...
I don't think the new info really changes anything at least for me. It does give some insight that she did have some issued, but I don't think it was all that relevant to the interaction with this officer. She seemed competent, pleasant, maybe a bit paranoid, but not to an alarming level. She certainly didn't give me the impression that she was a danger to herself or anyone else. If for some reason the officer felt threatened, he had lots of other options (backing away, tazer, talking). This was just a senseless act.
 
Kakidoll said:
Lots of info in the article above, .... and changes the scenario a LITTLE bit.
It should never have been Police that responded. It should have been a mental health team. THIS is where we need to do better.

And if it was Police, they should have had the entire history of the recent few days of 911 calls etc. This is where there is a major lapse. This is why cops are also killed/injured in these calls. It escalates so fast and EITHER side could have a weapon. Obviously her family knew she was not well and she probably should still have been IN the hospital.
Click to expand...
And definitely not living alone.
 
UrsulaWrenn said:
Problem is, if there had been an actual intruder a mental health team would have been in danger right alongside Sonya. I think we need to train police to less combative, full stop, and much less combative with those they KNOW have mental health issues. Of course, then, you'll get a few hardened criminals pretending to have schizophrenia or something so the LEOs drop their guard...so there is NO perfect solution.

I do agree she should have been in the hospital. One of the worst things this country has done is close down the mental hospitals and send the patients out to fend for themselves. Again, the places weren't perfect, and many needed not just reforms but total overhauls, but who knows how many of these kinds of deaths they prevented.

*Before any of you jump on me, yes, I know there are also issues with involuntarily confining someone regardless of their condition. There are a lot of issues that need ironed out, and until that happens, we have to find as many other ways as possible to prevent people like Sonja from losing their lives through the misunderstandings and unusual behaviors mental illnesses cause.
Click to expand...
No one should be jumping on you.
 
page 157 states that the deputy's bodycam was obscured by Grayson stepping in front of him when Sonya ducked down.

Back in the earlier paperwork there was something that said he did something wrong by doing the same thing... A training exercise? I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Page 125
 
Page 120... Doesn't seem like a good team communicator/operator and almost shot a civilian in a scenario situation
 
Page 44 psych assessment VERY interesting. Low cognitive skills, rigid, hasty in his actions ...
 
Page above hard to read, but seems to relate to military discharge.

Honourable, BUT also lists misconduct, serious offense as reason

Better quality version of same document page 20
 
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