IL IL - Timmothy Fry-Pitzen, 6, Aurora, 13 May 2011 - mom found dead - #1

[FindTim]

So the phone must have been found in the region after the conversation(s) with the relatives. I wonder if it was discarded before or after Timmothy was in her care?

 

[chipmunk]

I'm still catching up on this case. So far to me everything looks 50/50 on alive or dead. I read in the news or a post that the child's car seat was missing. Can anyone confirm this? My first thought was she gave it to the person who is caring for him like a good mom would. But she could strap him into it making it easier for the boy to sink deeper into water.

Relationship with husband was rocky. Spousal abuse is nearly epidemic in this country, maybe she was afraid of husband, knew the fighting or whatever was going on was harming her son. To me several of Timmothy's expressions look uncomfortable, lacking in confidence, not very happy. If Amy felt greatly harmed or hurt at home, even "just" emotionally I can understand how she would want her son to be in a different environment -with her friends.

Being very religious and wanting husband to convert, this was so important to her. I can see her wanting son to be raised by a Mormon. On the other hand being very religious she may have felt being with "those who loved son very much" could be people in heaven.

Trying to understand her logic is a problem since very clinically depressed people don't always think rationally.

 

[chipmunk]

How much weight should be given to the husband's view that the boy is with others and that he hopes the boy will be back with in when he's older? The husband spent the most time with Amy and understood the relationship of Mom and son very well. We'd expect the husband knows his wife very well.

However no family member want to think or accept their loved one is capable of harming anyone, especially their own son. Same with other family and friends.

Other, LE would be able to test the blood to determine how old it was I'd think. How much earlier was the bad nosebleed? If several months or more old can forensics figure out it is old blood as opposed to fresh? I can't see a mom and one like Amy has been described as hurting her son in a way that would draw blood.

 

[chipmunk]

Here's a list of Rockford area Mormon churches. If religion was as important to Amy as her husband said she may have attended one or more of these. Do some of these congregations have meetings/events on days she was gone, meeting in the 3rd week of the month? There's also another on the Iowa border, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Illinois_Temple

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/statistics/unit/rockford-illinois-stake/

I'd think she'd choose old friends first to keep the boy if that's what happened. On the other hand I don't think she'd need to know people all that well if they were respected Mormons she knew for a shorter time. These would be individuals helping, Not the church itself.

 

[chipmunk]

I don't have time to research the above churches but it is worth doing. Could someone please check it out? Timmothy could even be attending one. At least someone there may know where he is, if alive and taken west.

 

[Aeronomy]

Amy's suicide note -

"Mom,

I know you are hurt and frustrated and I wish I had something better to say than I love you. But I don't. I've never really felt that I've belonged here. I've tried very hard to fit in, to be happy, to be good to those around me, but somehow I've always felt apart from everything. Tim helped with that for a while and maybe if Jim and I had been better I would have been okay, but everything fell apart and this time there were just too many pieces for me to pick up again. I can't take the chance of Jim hurting Tim because of my choices. So I've taken him somewhere safe. He will be well cared for and he says that he loves you. Please know that there is nothing you could have said or done that would have changed my mind. I'm sorry for the hurt and difficulties I know you're going to face. I just hope you will be able to forgive me one day. Please let Brian, Kathy, Natalie, Adam, Cara, Sydney, and Phoebe know that I do love them and it was just time for me to say goodbye.
I love you mom.
Amy"

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/06/03/pitzen-timmothy-missing-mother-suicide-note

 

[itcouldbesweet]

I will never stop looking for those big brown eyes. I live in S. Eastern Wisconsin. I hope to travel some this spring/summer - perhaps attend some of the churches that have been mentioned here, as well as visit the Amish stores - take whatever tours they offer. Anyone else interested?

 

[trenchmouth]

Amy's suicide note -

"Mom,

I know you are hurt and frustrated and I wish I had something better to say than I love you. But I don't. I've never really felt that I've belonged here. I've tried very hard to fit in, to be happy, to be good to those around me, but somehow I've always felt apart from everything. Tim helped with that for a while and maybe if Jim and I had been better I would have been okay, but everything fell apart and this time there were just too many pieces for me to pick up again. I can't take the chance of Jim hurting Tim because of my choices. So I've taken him somewhere safe. He will be well cared for and he says that he loves you. Please know that there is nothing you could have said or done that would have changed my mind. I'm sorry for the hurt and difficulties I know you're going to face. I just hope you will be able to forgive me one day. Please let Brian, Kathy, Natalie, Adam, Cara, Sydney, and Phoebe know that I do love them and it was just time for me to say goodbye.
I love you mom.
Amy"

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/06/03/pitzen-timmothy-missing-mother-suicide-note

Doesn't sound like a mother that would hurt her own child? Was there any history of abuse? Any other thoughts on where she might have taken him? Have all the family and friends been interviewed? Lie detector tests? Someone close to her must know what happened.

 

[itcouldbesweet]

whoever she left him with took him with the understanding that he was to be 'off the grid' so to speak - that means no school registration documents, no medical records by way of regular pediatric visits, forged immunization records, etc. etc. My gut still has me leaning towards the Amish. I've always questioned why Amy even came to WI... There's a very large Amish community located in Columbia County, WI- just outside the Dells, in the smaller outlying towns, like Pardeeville, Portage, Dalton. WHY would the Amish be willing to take on a male child w/no outside support? Well, that's easy. The Amish gene pool has become so shallow over years and years of marrying w/in their community- so much so that more and more Amish couples are having children w/birth defects d/t mother and father being too closely related. (I recently watched a documentary on the tube about the shallow Amish gene pool.)

 

[itcouldbesweet]

My mind always returns to the Benadryl. I wish they'd disclose how much was missing/left in the bottle. It was spring - maybe he needed it - it knocks my lil guy on his royal hiney. Diphenhydramine aka Benadryl is the active ingredient in almost all over the counter sleeping pills. Was it her intent to put him to sleep so she could hand him off to strangers without explaining to him what was happening? Was it her intent as well to send him off with the toys bought that weekend, to comfort him in her absence, as they were pretty basic but required no batteries. Furthermore, was it her intent to insure her child's good oral hygiene, if only for a while, sending along the toothpaste & toothbrush? OR, did she drive around aimlessly until he fell asleep at which point she carried him off somewhere and..... don't even want to type it......

 

[itcouldbesweet]

I've followed this one from the beginning. My initial thought was, what did Amy feel she was protecting Tim from? Over time, that thought became 'what did the husband do to warrant being destroyed in such an unspeakable manner?' I know we're supposed to refrain from speaking ill of the dead, but I am of the opinion that it was Amy's intent to hurt and destroy her husband, for whatever reason.... and she succeeded. Wife: gone Child: gone Home: gone Career: gone. She ruined that man's life, she did. That being said, when I didn't see him in the press or the papers early on, I wasn't surprised. He was off licking his wounds, no doubt. But now, still.... I don't know what the guy looks like, never seen a photo of him, not even w/Tim - someone oughta introduce him to Jessica Lunsford's dad, or Polly Klaas's father - they're all about being in the public eye so you know who they are, so you know who their kids are - He needs to get mad, get out there, bring Tim home!!! I heard a recent interview w/the grandma where she says they're just going to hafta wait for Tim to FIND THEM.

 

[mom2six]

whoever she left him with took him with the understanding that he was to be 'off the grid' so to speak - that means no school registration documents, no medical records by way of regular pediatric visits, forged immunization records, etc. etc. My gut still has me leaning towards the Amish. I've always questioned why Amy even came to WI... There's a very large Amish community located in Columbia County, WI- just outside the Dells, in the smaller outlying towns, like Pardeeville, Portage, Dalton. WHY would the Amish be willing to take on a male child w/no outside support? Well, that's easy. The Amish gene pool has become so shallow over years and years of marrying w/in their community- so much so that more and more Amish couples are having children w/birth defects d/t mother and father being too closely related. (I recently watched a documentary on the tube about the shallow Amish gene pool.)

Interesting idea. I don't remember enough about the details of this case, but here is a website with a list of the amish schools in WI and a map of their locations, which should closely approximate amish congregations in the state. http://www.privateschoolreview.com/religiousSelection/typeReli/3/stateid/WI
Amish do often use modern medical care, however.

 

[Cubby]

FWIW, there is nothing I have seen to indicate Timmy's father was nothing other than a loving devoted father and husband. People suffering mental illness to the extent Amy was often have imagined fears which magnify with their illness.

I think it's unfair to not consider Amy's fears were imagined and of her own making due to her illness.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Authorities release age progression photo

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/2...e-age-progression-photo-of-missing-aurora-boy

 

[Cubby]

Here is a little more information on how Amy's cell phone was found.

Authorities thought they had a major break in the case in October 2013 when the cellphone belonging to Amy was turned in. The phone had been sitting for two years on a shelf after a woman had discovered it alongside the road on Illinois Route 78 north of Mount Carroll, according to police.
When her brother needed a new cellphone, it got powered up. And, as it turned out, the boyfriend of the stepdaughter of the woman's brother recognized some of the names in the contact list, including Amy and Jim Pitzen, who was Amy's husband and Timmothy's father.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/aurora-beacon-news/news/ct-abn-crosby-pitzer-st-0511-20150511-story.html

I can't believe it's been 4 years already. Praying this is the last anniversary without answers on Timmothy's whereabouts.

 

[Cubby]

Also from the link in the previous post:

Officials don't know how Timmothy's case will conclude. Catavu was interviewed recently for CNN's "The Hunt with John Walsh," for a segment this summer that will bring international attention to this case. But it takes just one observant person to give this story a happy ending.

 

[nannymo]

Amy's suicide note -

"Mom,

I know you are hurt and frustrated and I wish I had something better to say than I love you. But I don't. I've never really felt that I've belonged here. I've tried very hard to fit in, to be happy, to be good to those around me, but somehow I've always felt apart from everything. Tim helped with that for a while and maybe if Jim and I had been better I would have been okay, but everything fell apart and this time there were just too many pieces for me to pick up again. I can't take the chance of Jim hurting Tim because of my choices. So I've taken him somewhere safe. He will be well cared for and he says that he loves you. Please know that there is nothing you could have said or done that would have changed my mind. I'm sorry for the hurt and difficulties I know you're going to face. I just hope you will be able to forgive me one day. Please let Brian, Kathy, Natalie, Adam, Cara, Sydney, and Phoebe know that I do love them and it was just time for me to say goodbye.
I love you mom.
Amy"

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/06/03/pitzen-timmothy-missing-mother-suicide-note

Am I missing something? Hasn't it always been reported that Amy said in her note "you will never find him"??? I don't see that here, so where did that come from? Or was it just poor reporting in the beginning?

 

[MotherOcean]

Wow! I had never heard of Timmothy's case until two days ago when I saw a video of his aunt on FB. Came here to get educated. I have read through the entire thread in the last two days. It's hard to find primary sources of information because many of the links are now dead or articles have been removed.

For most of my reading and learning, I've been fairly convinced that Timmothy was killed prior to his mother's suicide. But, somewhere near the end of this thread, I became less sure. Now I truly think he could be alive. Maybe.

I wonder if the Friday the 13th date of the suicide held any special meaning for Amy.

I wonder if Amy had fertility problems. I read that Timothy's father was her third husband. I don't know how long those previous marriages lasted. No children from those unions. She had a six year old with no younger siblings. Just made me wonder if she experienced infertility. I've read she suffered from depression. I have seen many statements about her being mentally ill. But, I don't think depression necessarily equates with mental illness. Has anything else been reported about any possible diagnoses? I wonder if fertility issues may have contributed to her depression or her marital problems. This could be relevant, if so. Maybe she knew the pain of wanting children and so she desired for Timmothy to be with another woman/Mom who wanted children.

I have a friend who was left bankrupt after an adoption scam. The scammer had told my friend (and we found out there were other families she had scammed) that she was dying and she was looking for a family for her children. It wasn't true. But, I wonder if Amy may have told a couple that she was dying. Perhaps she omitted that her death would be by her own hands. Maybe an "adoptive" (clearly not done through the proper channels) couple thought Amy was a single mom and/or she wasn't going to be alive much longer to take care of Timothy. So, they "adopt" Timothy. Maybe they got firmly attached to him to the point that they would not come forward, even if they did become aware that Amy committed suicide.

I think if that's the case then they would leave the area and so the following may be moot...

I wonder if LE has looked into the various homeschool support groups in the areas where they think Timmothy could be... though I guess that could be anywhere. If Timmothy is living "off the grid" so to speak, maybe his new family is homeschooling him. I don't know what the homeschool laws are in that area but I know in my state that you can enroll a child in a legal homeschool covering with everything properly done and not have to show a birth certificate or immunization records. At six years old, he may not have been required to be enrolled anywhere, so at seven (as it is in my state) he could have been enrolled as a first grader with no prior records necessary.

 

[blazelet]

I've always wondered about the Amish adoption possibility since initially following this story. I am sure the detective has followed up on that. If he's as dedicated to the case as the stories suggest, he's probably followed up on everything.

It does give me hope that he believes Tim is alive. He knows more details including the amount of blood found in the car (worrying for me) and still feels good for Tim.

I'm friends with Pitzen family members on facebook and do also get the sense that they are somewhat removed from this story. But we all deal in our own ways. I'd be much more of a hot mess.

I initially came back to check on the thread because of the revelation that the cell phone had been found. I think that's fascinsting. It was found on the side of the road presumably where Amy made those last phone calls with Tim before going off grid? So that tells us why there were no more cell pings.

Again there wouldn't be any outgoing calls to an Amish community as they don't have phones, or access to news. If she said her son was being abused and gave consent to adopt would they take him in?

 

[StinkSprings]

Someone had previously noted that the fact that Amy had changed clothes from the time of leaving the waterpark to the time she was discovered is too big of a hurdle in my mind to get over. I don't understand the need to change clothes and then dispose of them w/o there being some major reason for doing so.