Ill. students lose diplomas over cheers

[KatK]

<snip>What are the other options to get the audience to shut up? If you kick out the troublemakers, you are only doing it after the fact.

Not if you stop the ceremony to have the offenders taken out. This way the other parents and family members can hear their graduates name called. (And read all of my post.)

 

[MSM]

Not if you stop the ceremony to have the offenders taken out. This way the other parents and family members can hear their graduates name called. (And read all of my post.)

I did read all of your post. I was responding to a rather emphatic point that you made at the beginning, because I disagreed with it.

If you stop the ceremony every time cheers occur, you are creating even more of a disruption. And that may not be much of a deterrent anyway, because the offenders have already gotten what they came for, which is to see their family member walk across the stage. Would they really care if they miss the rest of the ceremony? I don't know.

 

[JBean]

I think if they sue to get their diplomas, they will prevail. The school is affecting the rest of that student's ENTIRE LIFE *and* their ability to get a job and have a roof over their head/not starve. That is punishment FAR outside the realm of reasonbleness. Kicking out people who cheer is reasonable, even if it means stopping the ceremony. With-holding the diploma the student EARNED via meeting the criteria for it is not reasonable, and IMO illegal. (Even with the contract, signing something illegal like that doesn't necessarily give away your rights, and I'd say the contract is void because it is illegal, and unreasonably punitive.)

ETA: Are they asking the student, or the noise maker to do the community service? I could maybe see asking the noise maker to make amends somehow (so long as it doesn't demand they take off work) but asking the student to pay for their family member's "sins" isn't reasonable either.

ETA2: Also, Trent at the very end of the article has a valid point as well. With this now known, who is to say there won't be people shouting just to be spiteful when their name is called? Kick out the disruptors, or make them (if you can prove they are related to the student) do the community service. How about fining them instead?

This won't affect their whole life.
They still graduate, they just have to do community service to get the paper diploma. I think it's great.

>>said Gayles, who had a 3.4 grade-point average and officially graduated, but does not have the keepsake diploma to hang on her wall. "<<

But with all this at stake, isn't it crazy that the friends and family members would still violate the contract? I would not be happy with my family at all.

If they hadn't forwarned them I would agree this was silly. But they did and everyone knew the consequence and most managed to contain themselves for the sake of their graduate. reasonable to me.

 

[JBean]

They are not affecting the rest of the students' entire lives. They can get their diplomas if they do 8 hours of community service. They are giving them a slap on the wrist for their friends' and relatives' failure to comply with a written contract.

Sometimes I feel sorry for the schools. They can't win. Sounds like last year, this school had to deal with a bunch of angry parents complaining that they couldn't hear their kids' names called at graduation because of air horns (?!), and now they try to do something about it, and they get crap for that, too. What are the other options to get the audience to shut up? If you kick out the troublemakers, you are only doing it after the fact.

I am with you.
It's just amazing that people cannot have manners at a ceremony and that we would have to resort to kicking people out at all.

 

[CyberLaw]

Well I have an idea: Immediate family invited to the graduation. That means your parents. Your parents signed the contact and are a party to the contract. The parents have a vested interest in seeing their child receive their diplomas. Mom and Dad know the rules. But Mom and Dad are free to take a discreet video of their child to show all of the friends and other relatives. So if you have a loud uncle, who is know to be loud, does not follow the rules, is not a party to the contract and does not give two hoots about other people the he can be a loud as he wants at the home of the graduate, not in public. At our son's Grade 8 graduation, only two people were allowed, due to space. But of course a women brought the whole extended family, and were stopped at the door. After all she had 10 people with her, and that meant, that other people who did follow the rules were not going to have a seat to see their child graduate. Apparently she felt that the rules did not apply to her, but she found out in the end they did.

 

[MSM]

Well I have an idea: Immediate family invited to the graduation. That means your parents. Your parents signed the contact and are a party to the contract. The parents have a vested interest in seeing their child receive their diplomas. Mom and Dad know the rules. But Mom and Dad are free to take a discreet video of their child to show all of the friends and other relatives. So if you have a loud uncle, who is know to be loud, does not follow the rules, is not a party to the contract and does not give two hoots about other people the he can be a loud as he wants at the home of the graduate, not in public. At our son's Grade 8 graduation, only two people were allowed, due to space. But of course a women brought the whole extended family, and were stopped at the door. After all she had 10 people with her, and that meant, that other people who did follow the rules were not going to have a seat to see their child graduate. Apparently she felt that the rules did not apply to her, but she found out in the end they did.

You have a good point. Smaller groups or just Mom & Dad would have a hard time making as much noise as a big group.

 

[Details]

That solution (only mom and dad) seems really sad - punishing everyone because a few people want to go overboard with the cheering, then throw a fit over 8 little hours of community service (not even required - how many of us don't even know where their high school diploma paper is now?).

I think this is a pretty good situation - you can have your family and friends there to see you graduate and cheer (appropriately, at the appropriate times), and there's some motive for them not to go overboard with the noisemaking, to be considerate to the other graduates.

If they don't, or if there is some troublemaker (hardly seems worth their while), 8 hours of helping someone else out is a small, small price to pay to make it all right.

 

[JBean]

That solution (only mom and dad) seems really sad - punishing everyone because a few people want to go overboard with the cheering, then throw a fit over 8 little hours of community service (not even required - how many of us don't even know where their high school diploma paper is now?).

I think this is a pretty good situation - you can have your family and friends there to see you graduate and cheer (appropriately, at the appropriate times), and there's some motive for them not to go overboard with the noisemaking, to be considerate to the other graduates.

If they don't, or if there is some troublemaker (hardly seems worth their while), 8 hours of helping someone else out is a small, small price to pay to make it all right.

You make it sound pretty simple Details. Just behave!

 

[luvbeaches]

Our school district does the same thing...and I am glad. With our oldest, graduation was a zoo. People were screaming and tooting airhorns, and it was impossible to hear the names as they were being called. Yell and scream all you want...but do it outside of graduation.

By the time our youngest graduated, they'd gone to this rule. Everyone knows and everyone follows the rules. It's a happy moment for everyone, but if everyone hoots and cheers, graduation could go on for hours and hours. Is it fair that my child happens to be behind some loud family? It's hard enough finding your kid in a sea of grad gowns, much less not being able to hear their name when it's being announced.

There are always going to be people who believe that the rules and laws do not apply to them. It's too bad these kids had to suffer, but their families should have known better. They did sign an agreement...didn't they? (I thought I remembered this being mentioned).

This is just typical behavior from people in this country...it's not the USA, it's the MeSA.

 

[JBean]

Our school district does the same thing...and I am glad. With our oldest, graduation was a zoo. People were screaming and tooting airhorns, and it was impossible to hear the names as they were being called. Yell and scream all you want...but do it outside of graduation.

By the time our youngest graduated, they'd gone to this rule. Everyone knows and everyone follows the rules. It's a happy moment for everyone, but if everyone hoots and cheers, graduation could go on for hours and hours. Is it fair that my child happens to be behind some loud family? It's hard enough finding your kid in a sea of grad gowns, much less not being able to hear their name when it's being announced.

Now this makes perfect sense to me.

 

[luvbeaches]

Now this makes perfect sense to me.

It did to me too. I just don't see the big deal. No one at our graduations acts like they are being put out. It was just something that was getting out of hand. Our kids had 600-700 in their classes, and believe me, I had a hard time even finding them in the crowd. At least I could hear the names being called, so I knew when mine were approaching the stage...well, all but the first kid.

 

[JBean]

It did to me too. I just don't see the big deal. No one at our graduations acts like they are being put out. It was just something that was getting out of hand. Our kids had 600-700 in their classes, and believe me, I had a hard time even finding them in the crowd. At least I could hear the names being called, so I knew when mine were approaching the stage...well, all but the first kid.

Well exactly. My kids had big grad classes too.
I am with you, in that it just seems pretty common sensical. Since this was clearly spelled out in advance, i just don't know what these people were thinking. If the school doesn't follow through with their 'threat", those contracts will have no meaning in the future and this problem will persist.
You better believe this will be discussed next year and only the real slow learners will be hootin' and hollerin' lol.

 

[kgeaux]

I agree--especially since both the student and parents signed a contract! My stepdaughter's school did not have the kids or parents sign a contract. I know that, had I signed one, I wouldn't have made a peep. :chicken:

But what if it was Aunt Sadie or Grandpa cheering? It's not just students and parents in attendance at graduations.

I understand the need for some sort of decorum, but honestly, denying a young adult something they have worked so hard for over something that young adult has zero control over is plain ridiculous. This just can't be the answer. Even escorting people out presumably delays the ceremony while the gradcops find the cheerers and drag them out of the auditorium.....

My neighborhood highschool graduates classes of over 600, and I know cheering and clapping do add to the amount of time needed for the ceremony to finish, but I totally understand the audience members great joy.

 

[Elphaba]

So what does one do if someone cheers and it is a person that the graduate didn't even invite, or a jerk in the audience cheers just to get a graduate in trouble that they don't like?

Punishing the graduate for someone elses actions just doesn't seem right... you work 4 years to get to that point and all it takes is one jerk's yelping to mar the whole ending of a life milestone moment? The offender should be held accountable for their actions, not the graduate... JMO

 

[hicpics]

i agree there a plenty of jerks that could take advantage of it if they are angry with a certain graduate . It isnt the graduate fault if that happens.

 

[JBean]

IMO, it's a loud group that carries on too long. It isn't random troublemakers.
The parents should just let the guests know what the guidelines are. I would guess that's what they agreed to do in the contract. How sad that they had to write a contract!
I wasn't able to holler at my kids baptisms or confirmations.
Nor did we carry on for their college graduations. We still managed to enjoy the moment and celebrate! A quick woohoo and that was it!

 

[Paladin]

Eh, I guess I'm the only person who agrees with the rule. I saw my fiance get her grad school diploma 2 weeks ago and the school asked that people hold their applause in a dignified fashion. But then every single name that was called, "WHOO!", and yes, there was an airhorn. Multiple airhorns. This was a grad school ceremony. It was like we were at a ball game, not dignified at all. People were stomping their feet on the bleechers and drowning out many of the names being called. Her grandparents, God bless them, are in their 90s. They both have hearing aids. It was hard enough for them as it is to see, let alone hear their grandaughter's name called.

And you know what? These people signed the contract. How about honoring it? I know I would be pissed if I couldn't hear my loved one's name. There's plenty of time to hoot and holler out in the parking lot or at a graduation party.

Edit: Just read some posts above, I guess I'm not alone w00t!

 

[JBean]

Eh, I guess I'm the only person who agrees with the rule. I saw my fiance get her grad school diploma and the school asked that people hold their applause in a dignified fashion. But then every stupid name that was called, "WHOO!", and yes, there was an airhorn. Multiple airhorns. This was a grad school ceremony. It was like we were at a ball game, not difnified at all.

hahaha you're not the only one.

 

[Paladin]

hahaha you're not the only one.

You're right. I had a few beers today. Bad me!

 

[sleuthin4fun]

I think if they sue to get their diplomas, they will prevail. The school is affecting the rest of that student's ENTIRE LIFE *and* their ability to get a job and have a roof over their head/not starve. That is punishment FAR outside the realm of reasonbleness. Kicking out people who cheer is reasonable, even if it means stopping the ceremony. With-holding the diploma the student EARNED via meeting the criteria for it is not reasonable, and IMO illegal. (Even with the contract, signing something illegal like that doesn't necessarily give away your rights, and I'd say the contract is void because it is illegal, and unreasonably punitive.)

ETA: Are they asking the student, or the noise maker to do the community service? I could maybe see asking the noise maker to make amends somehow (so long as it doesn't demand they take off work) but asking the student to pay for their family member's "sins" isn't reasonable either.

ETA2: Also, Trent at the very end of the article has a valid point as well. With this now known, who is to say there won't be people shouting just to be spiteful when their name is called? Kick out the disruptors, or make them (if you can prove they are related to the student) do the community service. How about fining them instead?

The students still graduated the just didn't get there diploma which is only a piece of paper given as a momento. It is not like they weren't made aware of the consequence before had. The people that attended the graduation had to sign a paper understanding what the consequence would be and they chose to do this anyway. I can tell you if I was aparent attending my childs graduation and was unable to hear their name read due to the rudeness of others I would be upset. Have you ever been in a situation where there are certain people who cheer so loud, blow air horns ect.... It's ridiculous this is a graduation not a football game.