Illegal/Underground Adoption Theories and leads

[Amster]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22505785/detail.html
Snipped:
"But a second pizza order three days later may better help find Gabriel. The receipt, provided by Papa John's, also lists the name Elizabeth and room 150, but on Dec. 24, she ordered two pizzas, a medium and a large. They had a different assortment of toppings and seem to strongly suggest she was not eating alone.
The driver who delivered that order no longer works at Papa John's, but Tabor Morris wants to help track him down. If that second driver saw someone with Elizabeth, his testimony could help break the case."

What is going on??? Logan is going to meet with LE tomorrow and they asked him to bring the receipts?? What has LE been doing?? This is driving me crazy...:banghead::banghead:

 

[DairyGirl]

This is all so encouraging. EJ said she gave Gabriel to a couple in a park, but I don't think she ever identified the park, did she? Six Flags is considered a park, though an amusement park. It is very exciting they have her and Gabriel at Six Flags on December 26. How could this not be what happened given the information we have now. I am surprised though, that the "adoptive" parents haven't come forward given all the publicity in this case.

I can sort of understand. I adopted my first son and it took about 6 months for the adoption to be finalized. From the moment they put him in my arms I would have told you that you would get him back by prying my cold, dead arms. Glad I never had to find out how I would have reacted but I can see how much you can bond with your child from the moment of placement.

 

[Concernedmomarizona]

What is going on??? Logan is going to meet with LE tomorrow and they asked him to bring the receipts?? What has LE been doing?? This is driving me crazy...:banghead::banghead:

Agreed...why hasn't LE found this? I am trying to give SAPD the benefit of the doubt, but they aren't looking good.

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

Should the pizza guy have his own thread so we can sleuth him?
Ordering two pizza is no indication Elizabeth had company. Maybe it was food for the road?

 

[Amster]

Should the pizza guy have his own thread so we can sleuth him?
Ordering two pizza is no indication Elizabeth had company. Maybe it was food for the road?

Except she left 3 days later....

 

[DairyGirl]

Should the pizza guy have his own thread so we can sleuth him?
Ordering two pizza is no indication Elizabeth had company. Maybe it was food for the road?

I would like to know how many pizzas she ordered the first time. Sometimes I will order 2 pizzas if there is some kind of special. Pizza is a good breakfast

 

[Prof]

Except she left 3 days later....

They were different topings and sizes -- for one petite girl?
The place was practically next door ---
It seems excellent evidence of company-- and to make this post on topic for this thread, I bet the adoption agent suggested pizza for the parent meeting

 

[Prof]

Should the pizza guy have his own thread so we can sleuth him?
Ordering two pizza is no indication Elizabeth had company. Maybe it was food for the road?

Maybe -- although we don't have a name for the 2nd guy, and I am not sure why we need to sleuth the guy we have a name for

 

[impatientredhead]

Isn't selling your child to the highest buyer called human trafficking?
I am not getting the illegal adoption label personally.

 

[DaneBramage]

Isn't selling your child to the highest buyer called human trafficking?
I am not getting the illegal adoption label personally.

Nice one :thumb:

 

[Prof]

The only reasons that I can see motivating EJ in an illegal adoption are spite, vengence and short sightedness
I really don't believe that she was ever motivated by money
The only way she could get what she really wanted (to give Gabriel a better life tha she had while hurting the man who supposedly ruined her life) was to do it illegally
Illegal adoptions exist without selling babies, IMO
If she thinks that she can sit in jail until Gabriel is old enough to not be recognized, and take her chances on a lighter sentence, she'll do it at this point
Time might tell in her case, but I can't see how she could expect to gain monetarily from this situation
She's stubborn, and selfish, with a huge hunk of the poor me syndrome -- add TS' righteous influence and she feels like she has done nothing wrong

 

[impatientredhead]

The only reasons that I can see motivating EJ in an illegal adoption are spite, vengence and short sightedness
I really don't believe that she was ever motivated by money
The only way she could get what she really wanted (to give Gabriel a better life tha she had while hurting the man who supposedly ruined her life) was to do it illegally
Illegal adoptions exist without selling babies, IMO
If she thinks that she can sit in jail until Gabriel is old enough to not be recognized, and take her chances on a lighter sentence, she'll do it at this point
Time might tell in her case, but I can't see how she could expect to gain monetarily from this situation
She's stubborn, and selfish, with a huge hunk of the poor me syndrome -- add TS' righteous influence and she feels like she has done nothing wrong

If this theory turns out to have any validity this "adoption" agent is clearly getting paid by the "adoptive" parents. No one is coordinating so many of these transactions that there is a hotel they prefer to use, and an amusement park they recommend for meetings for altruistic reasons. That is a money making scheme all day long.

I have a hard time believing any mother that wants a better life for her child would make such callous comments about his dead body and paint a picture of him in the garbage. No matter how much she hates biodad that does not paint the picture of a mother willing to sit in jail to provide gains for her child.

If she sold him to some desperate couple it was motivated by ill-will and hatred, not loving maternal instincts.

moo

 

[DaneBramage]

Given that scenario, I think the money would be seen as a means to her "new life".

 

[DairyGirl]

One thing I don't get, why would EJ pay to stay at the motel if the adoption agency set it up. You would think that most if not all the women they work with don't have a lot of money and I am sure they would be profiting from the adoption they would pay. I am pretty sure I read that EJ paid for a week at the motel. Doesn't make sense if the agency sent her there, unless they reimbursed her.

 

[southern_comfort]

I can sort of understand. I adopted my first son and it took about 6 months for the adoption to be finalized. From the moment they put him in my arms I would have told you that you would get him back by prying my cold, dead arms. Glad I never had to find out how I would have reacted but I can see how much you can bond with your child from the moment of placement.

Yes... and then imagine, on top of that bond, that (a) you might've paid $50,000 or more in cash that you'll never recover for the baby and (b) if you are caught, you could face charges and prison time, risking everything in your life, including other children you might have.

I can understand how it might be very hard to come forward. If an adoptive family has him somewhere, they are in a pickle.

 

[Boo Scout]

It seems to me that the laws that have been posted pertain to Texas births and Texas fathers. How can it be possible that a baby born in another state whose father has custody of him, and the baby is kidnapped and taken over state lines, could be adopted out legally?

I agree, although I don't know how long EJ would have had to "live" in TX to establish residency there and have the TX adoption laws apply. There is a legal thread I could post this question to, but I'm sure it's not a week. IMO, I don't know how an adoption involving this case could ever be considered "legal".

The only thing I can think is that if someone did adopt him under the guise of doing it legally in the future in the court that maybe there were forged documents pertaining to paternity. All my opinion only.

 

[Boo Scout]

I would like to know how many pizzas she ordered the first time. Sometimes I will order 2 pizzas if there is some kind of special. Pizza is a good breakfast

Snipped:

But a second pizza order three days later may better help find Gabriel. The receipt, provided by Papa John's, also lists the name Elizabeth and room 150, but on Dec. 24, she ordered two pizzas, a medium and a large. They had a different assortment of toppings and seem to strongly suggest she was not eating alone.
http://www.kpho.com/news/22505785/detail.html

The article does not come out and say it but eludes to the first pizza order being for only one pizza.

Hopefully they can find the second driver and maybe he saw someone.

This could have been a meeting with the adoptive parents, imo.

 

[DaneBramage]

This is a blind stab, but could one establish residency if they had a valid job in the area? Law is NOT my forte...

 

[Harmony 2]

Just so you know, I wasn't making fun of you, I was making fun of AC. They are a blog, not in the traditional sense, it's the blogging for cash type. They pay their writers (bloggers) by how many views they get, they don't have to be honest or accurate.
I think they intentionally named it Associated Content, so that people would think they were the Associated Press. JMO.

Oh, I know you weren't making fun of me. I was not aware of the background on that site.

Harmony,

That site pays anyone to write stories and is not known for only reporting solid facts. ANYONE can write for them and they are paid by how many clicks the story receives. Writers on that site are known to embellish to receive more interest, and hence get paid more. That doesn't mean that NOTHING reported there is true. But unless you read info elsewhere (preferably from an LE source or at least reputable media source) it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Also, another sleuther said that she clicked on a link there once and ended up with several files being downloaded in the background (possibly viruses or adware). Just FYI.

Thanks for the headsup on that link.

Has the statement, that investigators have been sent to Mexico, been validated elsewhere?

And is the following statement (about the headquarters being a block away from the hotel) in the article true?

Tammi Smith, who is a person of interest in Baby Gabriel's disappearance is out of jail on a $15k bond. Smith is a colon hydrotherapist. She was certified by The International Association of Colon Hydrotherapists (IACH), whose headquarters, on San Pedro, is just one block from The HomeGate hotel where Johnson stayed with Baby Gabriel. The FBI have questioned IACH employees. http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...iel_johnson_mexico_underground_pg2.html?cat=9

 

[NewMommy09]

I agree, although I don't know how long EJ would have had to "live" in TX to establish residency there and have the TX adoption laws apply. There is a legal thread I could post this question to, but I'm sure it's not a week. IMO, I don't know how an adoption involving this case could ever be considered "legal".

The only thing I can think is that if someone did adopt him under the guise of doing it legally in the future in the court that maybe there were forged documents pertaining to paternity. All my opinion only.

I don't know if there are differences when it comes to custody, adoptions, etc. But for college tuition purposes, you have to live independently (not claimed as a dependent) for a year before you gain residency.