Illegal/Underground Adoption Theories and leads

[BeanE]

Okay, I'm looking at her going through an ethical adoption agency only, to see if that's even a possibility.

No one can make a mom go to court. It can be requested, but they will not arrest her if she does not show up for any kind of court case where adoption is involved. They would just further deem her rights terminated. They can tell you to go to court and you have to go before a judge, but it is not set in stone.

Do I understand it correctly that an ethical adoption agency in TX would schedule a court hearing to terminate Elizabeth's rights, whether or not Elizabeth would show for that hearing?

The birthfather registry in TX is set up so that if mom does/or does not name bd, and his name does not appear on the bd registry, his rights are automatically terminated. EVEN if there is a open custody case elsewhere.

Do I understand it correctly that an ethical adoption agency in TX would schedule a court hearing to terminate Logan's rights, whether or not he showed up?

Would an ethical adoption agency in TX do a publication like b4e mentioned or no?

If yes on either court hearing, with physical custody of Gabe having been turned over on Dec 26, when would these court hearings be scheduled?

ETA: Never mind on my question on court hearings. Petitions to terminate parental rights have to be filed, and court hearings have to be held for both mom and dad.

 

[BeanE]

If the baby/child is placed outside of the state where mom signed relinguishment, then what is suppose to happen is the adoption professional will file an ICPC (interstate compact agreement).
ICPC= in this situation, TX would be the giving state and the new parents state would be the receiving state. If ICPC is filed (which is law across the US) the state of TX (adoption specialist in capital) would send mega paperwork to the receiving state. TX would need to have info on the new home, and that these people are who they say they are, live where they say they do, work where they say they do, etc.....once Tx has all of its answers then the adoption professional will give the new family permission to leave the state of TX and go home. This can take anywhere between 2 hours to 10 days, all depends on each state and their ability to communicate and office hours(monday-friday,8-5,). If the baby is placed with new family outside of the country, no ICPC is done. It is not an international law, just federal law.

Is this for ethical agencies only? Or unethical would also file this?

 

[time]

A friend of mine has been researching this whole adoption aspect of the case and told me to search the term "gray market adoption". The term has been around a while, but it's a good one to search as it's not just black market/illegal adoptions versus legal adoptions. There are a lot of associated terms that you will see even legal, seemingly upfront, adoption agencies use that could actually be related to a gray market adoption. Terms such as "risky adoption", "legal risk", etc. where one parent's, usually the father's, rights have not been terminated. I found this yesterday...


http://www.adoptgodschildren.org/types_of_adoption.html

* some domestic adoptions are “legal risk placements.” This means that one, or both, of the biological parent’s parental rights have not been legally terminated. The child may be placed into the adoptive home, but the adoption may not be finalized until termination of the parental rights has been established.

And, this ...


Permanent Family Resource Center is a licensed non-profit adoption
agency serving Minnesota and North Dakota.

http://www.permanentfamily.org/aboutus.html

STATISTICS:

In 2009:

Permanent Family Resource Center placed 33 children. We finalized 46 adoptions into 21 families. Of the 21 families, 12 of them took a sibling group, meaning that of the 46 children that were finalized, 37 were members of a sibling group. Of the 46 children, 17 were African American, 12 were Caucasian, 12 were Hispanic, 4 were Asian, 1 was Native American/African American. Of the 46 children, 35 were from Texas, 1 was from Ohio, 1 was from Idaho, 5 were from Oklahoma, 2 were from Minnesota, 1 was from Washington, and 1 was from Delaware.

Also... notice my bolding

 

[time]

If you put the above point of a "legal risk" together with the fact that some gray adoptions are accomplished by moving a child to a different state to accomplish severing of parental rights, I think you get the picture.

 

[momtective]

Do I understand it correctly that an ethical adoption agency in TX would schedule a court hearing to terminate Logan's rights, whether or not he showed up?

Would an ethical adoption agency in TX do a publication like b4e mentioned or no?

If yes on either court hearing, with physical custody of Gabe having been turned over on Dec 26, when would these court hearings be scheduled?

Absolutely, I've watched the State of TX do it for over 20 years with children in my foster home. Termination of parental rights happens every day without the birth parents being present in court and many times without their knowledge.

A publication is done by an ethical agency or attorney as a matter of legal procedure, dotting i's & crossing t's. If EJ stated to an agency or attorney that the whereabouts of the birth father (Logan) were unknown then all that would do is make their job easier as far as the paperwork goes. An adoption agency or attorney is under no obligation to track down a birth father who's whereabouts are unknown. They run the publication in a County seat legal organ (very obscure) and it only has to run once.

I did talk to an attorney friend of mine here in Texas and she feels that this adoption could have been a private adoption handled through an attorney and not an agency. She also feels that the attorney may not have been given accurate information by EJ (go figure:crazy
She also said that there is a 2 year window in which the punitive father can act to reverse the adoption if his parental rights were terminated through publication.
She also agreed that Logan should register with the Texas birth father registry and that he should have a Texas Attorney to advise him along with his PI.

 

[mum]

Okay, I'm looking at her going through an ethical adoption agency only, to see if that's even a possibility.



Do I understand it correctly that an ethical adoption agency in TX would schedule a court hearing to terminate Elizabeth's rights, whether or not Elizabeth would show for that hearing?



Do I understand it correctly that an ethical adoption agency in TX would schedule a court hearing to terminate Logan's rights, whether or not he showed up?

Would an ethical adoption agency in TX do a publication like b4e mentioned or no?

If yes on either court hearing, with physical custody of Gabe having been turned over on Dec 26, when would these court hearings be scheduled?

ETA: Never mind on my question on court hearings. Petitions to terminate parental rights have to be filed, and court hearings have to be held for both mom and dad.

Yes to your first question.

Yes to your second question. And that is IF he was named.

Third question, IF Logan was named, then yes they can publish, they usually do this if they have no contact with or for dad. They publish in the last known city/town/ where mom says they were last known to live or work.

Court hearings, I believe, can be scheduled days after the consent is signed, and the baby has been placed in adoptive home, and should be scheduled with in 30days. Adoption petitions cannot just be set aside, legally. I do know that each county can be different.

IF dad is not named, they would terminate on John Doe.

Moms do not have to name baby's dad. They can't hold a gun to her head until she names him. Mom's will lie, they will seek out adoption professionals in other states and go to that state to place baby for adoptions. and Adoptions go through without birthfather consent/termination all the time.

 

[mum]

Is this for ethical agencies only? Or unethical would also file this?

It is suppose to happen with every adoption that crosses state lines, but baby's can be moved in an underground fashion because we don't have border patrols between states.

 

[mum]

A friend of mine has been researching this whole adoption aspect of the case and told me to search the term "gray market adoption". The term has been around a while, but it's a good one to search as it's not just black market/illegal adoptions versus legal adoptions. There are a lot of associated terms that you will see even legal, seemingly upfront, adoption agencies use that could actually be related to a gray market adoption. Terms such as "risky adoption", "legal risk", etc. where one parent's, usually the father's, rights have not been terminated. I found this yesterday...


http://www.adoptgodschildren.org/types_of_adoption.html


And, this ...


Permanent Family Resource Center is a licensed non-profit adoption
agency serving Minnesota and North Dakota.

http://www.permanentfamily.org/aboutus.html





Also... notice my bolding

Yes Gray market is the perfect term.

 

[momtective]

http://www.adoptionready.com/independent.htm

You may decide to adopt only in a State that has a putative father registry. (You can check State statutes regarding the rights of putative fathers in various States online at http://www.calib.com/naic/pubs/l_putat.cfm .) Otherwise, if the birthfather is not actively participating in the adoption plan, is unidentified, and is not willing to take a paternity test or if the birthmother is not able or willing to name a birthfather, you and your attorney will have to evaluate such circumstances very carefully. These are the kinds of situations that involve the most risk.

 

[momtective]

http://www.adoptionangels.com/adoption-terms-glossary.htm

Legal Risk Adoption - an adoption proceeding that is started even though the prospective adoptive family cannot be guaranteed that the child is eligible for adoption because:

1. biological parents' desire to continue to parent, or
2. pending legal action contesting the validity of a surrender or the legal authority of a court order involuntarily terminating parental rights.

 

[BeanE]

Tammi said that Eliz said that when she handed over Gabe, she signed 'adoption papers'. If that's true, what would those papers most likely be?

 

[NewMommy09]

Tammi said that Eliz said that when she handed over Gabe, she signed 'adoption papers'. If that's true, what would those papers most likely be?

My guess would be Termination of Parental Rights and/or guardianship paperwork like she signed for the Smith's. But that's just an UNeducated guess. If there was an "agency" of sorts, it may have gone well beyond those documents.

What I'm having trouble with is that I can't see why anyone would sign any paperwork at all. It seems they all knew this was not a legal adoption. Why waste time with formalities that would not hold up in court anyway. I keep thinking about the Smith's statements about someone "filtering Gabriel back into the system" and "keeping him hidden until he can no longer be recognized".
If those things are needed, then any paperwork signed between EJ and Gabriel's Abductive Parents (my new term rather than Adoptive Parents) would be pointless.

But at the same time, I don't feel I can trust most of what EJ or the Smith's say. :banghead::banghead:

 

[momtective]

Tammi said that Eliz said that when she handed over Gabe, she signed 'adoption papers'. If that's true, what would those papers most likely be?

Relinquishment papers.

 

[panthera]

My guess would be Termination of Parental Rights and/or guardianship paperwork like she signed for the Smith's. But that's just an UNeducated guess. If there was an "agency" of sorts, it may have gone well beyond those documents.

What I'm having trouble with is that I can't see why anyone would sign any paperwork at all. It seems they all knew this was not a legal adoption. Why waste time with formalities that would not hold up in court anyway. I keep thinking about the Smith's statements about someone "filtering Gabriel back into the system" and "keeping him hidden until he can no longer be recognized".
If those things are needed, then any paperwork signed between EJ and Gabriel's Abductive Parents (my new term rather than Adoptive Parents) would be pointless.

But at the same time, I don't feel I can trust most of what EJ or the Smith's say. :banghead::banghead:

I agree that there probably aren't any documents that would hold up in court since the whole thing is illegal to begin with. Another thing is, I keep going back to EJ saying she'd found a couple in the park, or parking lot, or wherever. Who in their right mind is going to take a baby without knowing one of the most important things ~ the child's medical history? A baby isn't just something you can take back if it turns out he has an illness that requires medication, continuous care, or even worse, surgery. Even running through one of these illegal adoption scenarios, the same thing basically would be true. I just can't imagine who would be so desperate that they'd take so many risks. :waitasec: MOO

 

[Ives]

If we can nail down a list of what she needed to make this work by the 26th, it will help narrow down what we need to look at, and can also be sent to LE as a tip for places/things for them to look into.

e.g. if only a certain type of agency/service could have handled this, it narrows down a list of these places that LE can 'visit' and look at their records.

If she would have needed a fake death certificate for a father, they can check Tammi's computer forensics to see if she was 'researching' that, etc, and they can tap into their known people in SA and Tempe who deal with fake death certificates.

Bear with me - I'm brainstorming on my first cup of coffee.

I wonder when TS started "researching" this stuff? I also wonder how long this has been the plan. Sombody could have already started the process in TX. had everything ready to go.(birth certificates, legal papers) and was just waiting on EJ? maybe thats why she had the hospital bracelet on her, and not the birth certificate. in case she got pulled over, she could prove it was her son. but when it came down to the "adoption" she did not need any of that stuff, because all that was already taken care of.

and she could have been worried about the being pulled over part, because she knew she was doing something very wrong, so guilty consience?

 

[panthera]

I wonder when TS started "researching" this stuff? I also wonder how long this has been the plan. Sombody could have already started the process in TX. had everything ready to go.(birth certificates, legal papers) and was just waiting on EJ? maybe thats why she had the hospital bracelet on her, and not the birth certificate. in case she got pulled over, she could prove it was her son. but when it came down to the "adoption" she did not need any of that stuff, because all that was already taken care of.

and she could have been worried about the being pulled over part, because she knew she was doing something very wrong, so guilty consience?

I definitely believe if an illegal adoption took place that the plan was set in motion long before EJ left Arizona. There's no way I can see it happening in just the short time she was in San Antonio. And with the reputation this particular hotel she stayed in has, it convinces me even more that it was all arranged beforehand. MOO

 

[TXHOPE]

I just don't believe Tammi helped her find an underground adoptive couple/broker. Tammi wanted Gabriel for herself, why would she want to help give him up to someone else? Especially considering she called a judge after the 27th still trying to find a way to get Gabriel for herself. It's possible she could of had EJ hide Gabriel for her but I don't think that happened. I think EJ switched rooms on the 26th to get away from Tammi's calls and the fact that she knew what room she was in. She wanted to get away from Tammi because she made other plans and the baby was already going to someone else the morning of the 27th and she didn't want to break the news to Tammi. Tammi was "duped" by EJ. I think Tammi did get her in touch with people like Janet that could help her find a way to terminate Logan's rights in Texas. I think TS helped her with a fake ID to help EJ hide from Logan all along hoping Logan would sign off on the paperwork in order to get Gabriel back to AZ. Tammi's plan failed but I think one of her "underground" connections that she set EJ up with, be it the person who helped with the fake ID or Janet helped EJ find a broker who found the couple. Just my :twocents:

 

[panthera]

I just don't believe Tammi helped her find an underground adoptive couple/broker. Tammi wanted Gabriel for herself, why would she want to help give him up to someone else? Especially considering she called a judge after the 27th still trying to find a way to get Gabriel for herself. It's possible she could of had EJ hide Gabriel for her but I don't think that happened. I think EJ switched rooms on the 26th to get away from Tammi's calls and the fact that she knew what room she was in. She wanted to get away from Tammi because she made other plans and the baby was already going to someone else the morning of the 27th and she didn't want to break the news to Tammi. Tammi was "duped" by EJ. I think Tammi did get her in touch with people like Janet that could help her find a way to terminate Logan's rights in Texas. I think TS helped her with a fake ID to help EJ hide from Logan all along hoping Logan would sign off on the paperwork in order to get Gabriel back to AZ. Tammi's plan failed but I think one of her "underground" connections that she set EJ up with, be it the person who helped with the fake ID or Janet helped EJ find a broker who found the couple. Just my :twocents:

I understand completely what you're saying but would a contact TS had helped set up at the last minute make arrangements in this timeframe for EJ to adopt him out to somebody else? It all seems rather quick, imo, to completely change course. I just wish we knew who this "Hispanic guy" that EJ was seen with on more than one occasion in SA really is. If it's true that EJ did find somebody to take Gabriel, he seems to be the key. MOO

 

[time]

My guess would be Termination of Parental Rights and/or guardianship paperwork like she signed for the Smith's. But that's just an UNeducated guess. If there was an "agency" of sorts, it may have gone well beyond those documents.

What I'm having trouble with is that I can't see why anyone would sign any paperwork at all. It seems they all knew this was not a legal adoption. Why waste time with formalities that would not hold up in court anyway. I keep thinking about the Smith's statements about someone "filtering Gabriel back into the system" and "keeping him hidden until he can no longer be recognized".
If those things are needed, then any paperwork signed between EJ and Gabriel's Abductive Parents (my new term rather than Adoptive Parents) would be pointless.

But at the same time, I don't feel I can trust most of what EJ or the Smith's say. :banghead::banghead:

Mom... I always wondered if 'legal' papers were just signed in case Gabriel were ever found and the 'adoptive parents' were charged. They could claim they thought it was legal. Going along with that, I had to wonder if these supposed parents would either be living a lifestyle or living in a location that they could claim they did not realize a baby named Gabriel was missing.

So... those two things would somewhat cover their arses.

 

[NewMommy09]

Mom... I always wondered if 'legal' papers were just signed in case Gabriel were ever found and the 'adoptive parents' were charged. They could claim they thought it was legal. Going along with that, I had to wonder if these supposed parents would either be living a lifestyle or living in a location that they could claim they did not realize a baby named Gabriel was missing.

So... those two things would somewhat cover their arses.

That's a workable theory.
The USA believes "Ignorance is no excuse for the law". But signed paperwork might be enough to lessen charges if someone is found to have Gabriel. Or at the very least, draw pity from a jury. JMO.