Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[LeBlack]

I realize that and agree but I was commenting on the father. What was he thinking. Afterall it is 2018 and as I said if it was me (as a parent) I would never let my child go on that bridge knowing what happened and if this fellow is the perp especially. The mother and child of course innocently posted the photo not realizing the connection at the time sadly as I said above. If he is the perp then how could he let his wife and daughter go on that bridge? If I was her parent I would not want to look at that photo. Maybe this gives us a perspective on the outlook the possible perp had. Doesn't care if they were on it after what happened. I mean it could be anyone else as well, not just Abby and Libby if one thinks about it. Even if it was targeted. IDK it was very violent and not care if one's wife and daughter were on it. Just doesn't sit right with me, again if its the possible perp because at this point we don't know and can only speculate. BUT......

From the time I saw that blurred photo on MSM, I perplexed me that this photo IN MY OPINION ONLY possibly has a prominent spot in the Allen home. It's a nice photo, could have been done professionally. What kind of monster does what he's been charged with where his own family has had enjoyable memories. ... MOO

 

[5W's]

Regarding crumpled pants. I'll add one more thing. And this is from my experience for the past 40+ years. Some men wear their pants VERY baggy. 2 personal experiences. First back 40+ yrs ago when I first came across this. 2 young males walking in front of me. Pants drooping and drooping till they slid down. Dude bent over to grab his pants and pull them back up. (Ick. lol)

The most recent incident was 2 days ago. Saw a guy where the top of his pants was worn below his crotch. Below. His. Crotch! I was trying to figure out how that was even possible. I've seen it multiple times so it has to be, even though I can't wrap my head around HOW it can be. lol I wished this "fad" would have gone away decades ago, yet it's still here. One note that these experiences are in 2 different states and in 2 "nice areas".

So, I'm not at all surprised that RA had baggy pants. Likely he wasn't one of the 2 extreme cases I witnessed above, but baggy (crumpled) pants are common among some.

That would also possibly give a perp an advantage as to not be able to give clues to further idenitfy the perp. Weight for one the jacket is also hiding the top area. IMO it was obviously intentional in this situation to be advantagous and further hinder investigative work.

 

[Charlot123]

So much has never been released, that is what the part I do not get. Leaving a community in the midst of fear when more was known that could help catch him doesn’t sit well.
We all agree a solid case and conviction are important, but so is the safety of the community, and mental wellness. It is the same with Evansdale, very little has come out and ten years have passed with no arrest. I almost pray evidence is found that links to RA so those families could get answers

I think from the inside, everything looked differently. I suspect Delphi LE experienced burnout very quickly, and it is not surprising.

I am in a totally different area, thank God, and may pace my schedule. And yet what kills my day is the amount of paperwork. I am trying to imagine how hard it was on these regular police guys at the beginning. Doubtfully anyone provided them all with new computers, dictation systems, everything that saves effort and time. (Correct me if I am wrong). No one took away all their daily caseload of meth users throwing fireworks from cars at high-speed chase (welcome to "Carroll County Sheriff's Facebook for the mug shots of "Indiana's finest". Only LE's K-9 looks more or less human). And on top of it, the Delphi case that was a priority and needed a lot of organization and manpower. Few ever came across such murders in their lives. So I am trying to imagine how it was to these cops, when every step probably needed five papers and six affidavits. Plus, "local" could mean Delphi, Logansport, Frankfort, etc, etc.

Can't blame LE for doing something wrong, or not doing timely. I suspect that with all this additional work, and guests, and calls, and attention, many felt overwhelmed. On the human level, I can't even blame them for not paying attention to RA initially. Probably they were only too happy to cross a seemingly normal citizen off that suspect list.

TL once said how he regretted calling off the dogs. After that, posters started, "of course, if they had dogs...". I bet if TL hadn't said it, no one would think dogs were even an option.

Our brain is trained to recognize patterns, and use pre-learned algorithms to solve problems with minimal cost and efforts. In this case, the patterns were new, and, as I suspect, pre-learned algorithms didn't exist. Luckily, it is still a rare case.

 

[LeBlack]

From the time I saw that blurred photo on MSM, I perplexed me that this photo IN MY OPINION ONLY possibly has a prominent spot in the Allen home. It's a nice photo, could have been done professionally. What kind of monster does what he's been charged with where his own family has had enjoyable memories. ... MOO

In trying to add a MSM link to the photo, I could not find the link that I originally saw. Photo 10 in this dailymail article.

CVS pharmacy tech charged in Delphi murders posed by 'wanted' sketch

Bob Matlock, owner of JC's Bar in Delphi, Indiana, said on Monday the man arrested for the 2017 murder of two teenage girls in the town was a regular among his patrons.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Charlot123]

Agree, denial can make even the sane live essentially in two realities. I get that from the perspective of emotional abuse, compartmentalization is a survival tactic. People that act for a living must draw themselves into such a state as well for intense rolls different from their own natural personality. That may be part of the allure, the game
It begs the question of why? Was he a thrill seeker in his younger years that got bored? Did he date around? Was his wife his only girlfriend? Insight from people who knew him in high school before he married would be interesting.
They married at 19, there is a lot a person doesn’t experience if they settle down that young, and if it was due to his child?

From what I heard yesterday in MS podkast, RA was indeed the smallest in his class and probably teased for it. No one mentioned aggression. Everyone said he was quiet and shy. His grandpa was the principal of the local HS, and many teased RA for attending "grandpa's school". His wife was from Peru, as I understands, religious, so happy or not, the marriage was the marriage. Many mentioned his very nice parents. Nothing outstanding, in short.

 

[mrjitty]

RSBM

I’ve worked in the legal system, I’ve seen sentences handed out that people did not deserve. I’ve seen people get a slap on the wrist when they’re such a danger to the general public that prison is the only safe place for them.

Seeing this case play out? I don’t think LE had any idea who killed the girls until very recently. I think they screwed up at the get go for not investigating every person on the trails that day.

They said from the start it was probably a local. There were 2800 people in Delphi in 2017. If you figure 1400 men, 40% from ages 20-50 leaves only 560 potential suspects for the entire town. Narrow that down to men that are below average height? Then narrow that down to who was on the trails that day or even men with no alibi or a weak alibi?

It’s easy to see why people don’t have faith in the justice system.

The problem is, how do you 'investigate' what you have left?

Let's assume RA did keep one trophy at his house. To find it you need probable cause. How do you get that?

These cases can be so hard to solve without a break to indicate which of potentially dozens of suspects you could focus on.

And even if you did focus on the right person, then what? He just goes about his everyday life. What would he do that would give you PC?

 

[MassGuy]

I am really struggling to wrap my head around LE missing RA who came forward and identified himself. I mean, how many people were out there that day, during that time. There just couldn't have been that many or he could not have committed the murders. I am so disappointed they did not narrow down the height of BG from the video, he went right past trees they could have compared. RA is short, it would be a serious clue.

It's weird, as that's part of the standard profile for a killer like this. It's common for murderers (again, like this), to insert themselves into the investigation, either to gain knowledge, or mislead.

As for the height of BG in the video, I'm sure the FBI would have been involved in that aspect, and tried to narrow it down. That video was pretty much all they had (excluding the crime scene itself), so they surely would have dedicated resources to that.

Maybe the pixelation, angle, and distance effected their ability to do that or something.

 

[AngTxGal]

The problem is, how do you 'investigate' what you have left?

Let's assume RA did keep one trophy at his house. To find it you need probable cause. How do you get that?

These cases can be so hard to solve without a break to indicate which of potentially dozens of suspects you could focus on.

And even if you did focus on the right person, then what? He just goes about his everyday life. What would he do that would give you PC?

I could then speculate then that they must not have DNA evidence from the perp at the scene. If they did they could eliminate their Top Ten by getting DNA from each. RA was out and about in the public, at bars drinking and playing pool, how hard could collecting his DNA be?
So how did he not leave DNA evidence at the scene? Or was he near the scene because he was in the search party and so they ruled him out?

 

[5W's]

In my post #900 I was thinking of them walking on the bridge or that area after the murfers. If what we know about KA is true then not caring if they were there would really tell one's personality or character. I almost want to throw up thinking that. I understand its speculation but my interest is did the suspected perp care about family or simple gratification only? I wish we knew if they walked there afterwards, especially knowing KA is on the loose (RA knowing.) JMO.

 

[asyousay]

He must of been concerned he had been seen by people that day to come forward and place himself on the trails as he worked in the community . So I still believe this was the spur of the moment action on his part and there was no planning as it’s just so rash, bold and stupid.

 

[5W's]

I could then speculate then that they must not have DNA evidence from the perp at the scene. If they did they could eliminate their Top Ten by getting DNA from each. RA was out and about in the public, at bars drinking and playing pool, how hard could collecting his DNA be?
So how did he not leave DNA evidence at the scene? Or was he near the scene because he was in the search party and so they ruled him out?

Ya, its hard to say about the DNA maybe they had a partial at the time and were later able to develop a better profile just like the pixelation of the video. perhaps that's what happened.

 

[5W's]

He must of been concerned he had been seen by people that day to come forward and place himself on the trails as he worked in the community . So I still believe this was the spur of the moment action on his part and there was no planning as it’s just so rash, bold and stupid.

I know this is propbably from the start or very beginning of this case but is there a link to where he said he was on the trails that day? If possible can someone post it for those of us who are new here.

 

[LeahBee]

I know this is propbably from the start or very beginning of this case but is there a link to where he said he was on the trails that day? If possible can someone post it for those of us who are new here.

I came to ask the same question. I've only seen that he came forward as a witness, but does the term "witness" in a case actually mean physically being there? Or can a witness be anyone who provided any information in a case, for example - a rumour they heard, a vehicle they saw in the neighbourhood that they didn't recognize, even a "hunch". Don't get me wrong, I fully believe RA was there and is responsible, I'd just like to see where it's stated he spoke to LE about being there that day.

Jmo

 

[LeahBee]

i also cannot believe wife didn’t recognize BG if indeed BG is RA. MOO. I know loved ones often don’t know but this is a very different situation with images, voice, she knew he was there, and not even disguised IMO.

rsbm

This is what is bothering me - is his entire outfit something he bought specifically that day, wore once, and tossed? But he wasn't disguised enough for someone who was trying to not be recognized aka someone who would buy an outfit specifically to commit a crime)
It's just hard to imagine that his clothing wouldn't be recognized along with his voice, gait, etc.
Not saying his wife knew something...but I've seen circumstances where denial can completely cloud someone's reality.

All jmo

 

[taylorss]

I am really struggling to wrap my head around LE missing RA who came forward and identified himself. I mean, how many people were out there that day, during that time. There just couldn't have been that many or he could not have committed the murders. I am so disappointed they did not narrow down the height of BG from the video, he went right past trees they could have compared. RA is short, it would be a serious clue.

Yeah this is really difficult … his appearance, his VOICE … how did they not recognize him??

My best guess IMO is it’s in the nature of how an investigation is done, esp when you have a huge pool of potential suspects. You have to proceed step by step to eliminate people, and step 1 is an ALIBI.

A crime happened at location X at Y time on Z date, and whoever committed it had to have been there.

Anyone who can show they were somewhere other than X at Y-o’clock on Z-day is taken off the long list of potential perps. Now the list is shorter, containing only those without a sufficient alibi.

My SPECULATION jmo is maybe RMA managed to produce a good enough alibi for the exact moment of the crimes. This would move him out of the pool of “needs a further look” at the first cut. LE would then move on to dig into the remaining pool without looking back.

If RMA did indeed offer a passable alibi, it’s possible he was written off as a suspect within minutes of presenting himself to LE shortly after the crime, and then literally did not get a second look again for five+ years MOO

 

[taylorss]

Several people in the thread have commented on a before the event and after the event change of appearance in pictures of RA. There was some question if RA had suffered moral conscience or an awareness that killing someone was not what he thought it would be. There could be another factor. Considering that RA felt compelled to identify himself to the police as having been in the park around the time of the murders. He may have spent his time waiting for the proverbial "knock on the door," which will wear on someone.

This is fascinating! i need to find a bunch of pictures of the guy & check this out. I’ve only seen a few pics so far & not even sure which ones were before or after….

 

[flashy09]

Libby's video gave us 2 important clues -(let's go with these for now) the pant legs were crumpled -- Short man that can't easily get pants off the rack , or someone is wearing pants belonging to someone else.
The voice is that of a smoker +/or drinker

MOO

I tried to get a feel of the rules regarding the scanner chatter so I hope this is ok. I agree with the voice of a smoker and page 10 #200 is interesting.

 

[Yvettea]

In my post #900 I was thinking of them walking on the bridge or that area after the murfers. If what we know about KA is true then not caring if they were there would really tell one's personality or character. I almost want to throw up thinking that. I understand its speculation but my interest is did the suspected perp care about family or simple gratification only? I wish we knew if they walked there afterwards, especially knowing KA is on the loose (RA knowing.) JMO.

Do you mean post #902?

Who is KA? Are you referring to KAK?

 

[WingsOverTX]

From the time I saw that blurred photo on MSM, I perplexed me that this photo IN MY OPINION ONLY possibly has a prominent spot in the Allen home. It's a nice photo, could have been done professionally. What kind of monster does what he's been charged with where his own family has had enjoyable memories. ... MOO

A psychopathic one? That's the rub. Non-psychopaths will never understand the motivations, reasoning (or lack thereof), complete lack of impulse control and utter depravity of those who commit these crimes.

That is why removing these kind of perps from society is the only option. In the profiler video of Pat Brown posted here, her analysis of RA was basically spot on for this very reason. She knows serial killers are outside the norm in ways that are unfathomable to those with empathy.

Someone who has no empathy has no boundaries. They may pretend well & fulfill enough of the norms of society to fly under the radar most of the time, but they don't FEEL anything for the plight of others so when they choose the ultimate act of victimization - murder - it is the fulfilment of who they are.

JMO
(I have not studied these types & have no special forensic knowledge)

 

[Charlot123]

.

I could then speculate then that they must not have DNA evidence from the perp at the scene. If they did they could eliminate their Top Ten by getting DNA from each. RA was out and about in the public, at bars drinking and playing pool, how hard could collecting his DNA be?
So how did he not leave DNA evidence at the scene? Or was he near the scene because he was in the search party and so they ruled him out?

There might have been a mix of DNAs in the CS, from girls' houses, schools, searchers, EMTs. There are ways to separate DNAs in a mixed sample, but it is very new. I think they collected what they could, but whether his DNA was there, or it was a partial, or even less stayed after the night under elements, we don't know. His DNA probably was not collected, or if it was, he was ruled out because of his alibi. Maybe LE later paid attention to the fact that the distribution of his DNA at the CS did not match RA story.