Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[Marzipan]

Speaking of PPV Trials, this is interesting. In this pilot project, Allen County's Fran Gull was named as one of the judges participating.

Broadcast pilot project allows cameras in court

times.courts.in.gov

Because the victims were minors, I’m certain this court case is not going to be broadcast for all to see. Maybe the verdict or sentencing. My opinion only. I would be appalled if it were broadcast. These were two 13-year-old girls. We can read about it — that will be hard enough.

 

[5W's]

Do you mean post #902?

Who is KA? Are you referring to KAK?

Yes KAK, #902. Thanks.

 

[Yvettea]

Yes KAK, #902. Thanks.

Thank you for your answer.

 

[5W's]

I'm not sure that we know yet that RA was "missed". I'm sure he was always on the list of suspects and we do not know what kind of timeline was developed for him that day. It seems (just speculation) that there was perhaps some piece of information gained in the last few years that made RA stand out more as a possible perpetrator than he had in the past.

I'm also not sure that the height is as important as people say. He's somewhere between 5'6" and 5'8" (I believe the 5'4" was debunked). While that may be below average for the average male in the US, that doesn't mean it's below average for a man in that general area. I feel like I've been to cities where it seems like everyone is really tall and other cities where it seems like everyone is short (I'm 5'6"). In populations where people aren't moving in and out of the area in large numbers, some genetic factors can start showing themselves. Not to say that's the case in Carroll County, I just think the height issue is more nuanced that people think.

One thing I've noticed but not seen mentioned anywhere I swear BG looks like he's hunching. I've noticed that before but just realized it now that he looks like he's hunching his neck downwards. Maybe that's why witnesses who saw him if any did that day were confused. The hunching down would also play with height and distract from BG's face. Maybe also on Libby's video it being grainy and the guy's nech hunching down people who knew RA couldn't recognise him? I know I would have a problem identifying someone who was hunched because it also plays with the light falling on the perp.

 

[5W's]

bolding mine
Good points to ponder.

Sorry I just have to say this : I hope there were no unasked questions that should have been ... asked !!
It's just that five years seemed much too long for the grieving families to have to wait; depending if there was video or audio of the perp on the girl's phones that could've assisted in identifying the perp.

At the very beginning, I thought it was said that there was more audio of the crime itself , but it couldn't be released as it was too graphic ?
But not for the investigators, they must have listened to everything repeatedly.
Outside of the bridge clip, Idk if there was more video.

This may sound unrealistic -- but if RA spoke to the investigators, could they have recorded something he said, and replayed it, and see if it matched what might have been on one of the girl's phones ?
A voice comparison ?

And since he lived in the general area, talked to RA again about his alibi and have him show where he walked that day ?
OR, could they have had dogs scent something of his and see if the dogs went to the crime scene following his scent ?
I realize this is after the fact.

M00.

I wonder if they need a warrrant to do that, though? Maybe that's why it took so much time for an arrest to be made as well. This would probably take a long time if they needed a warrant everytime?

 

[zencompass]

Tricia asks at the beginning for Sheryl to give her opinions and thoughts, based on her experience as a Crime Scene Investigator <modsnip>

That was a good discussion this evening!

JMO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

BBMFF

Reposted post by @Yemelyan, on 7/9/20, thread #124, post #325:

“I am going to re-post something that I believe is important enough to be on this thread. Obviously I didn't make it clear why it was on-topic so I'll be more explicit this time about why this matters for the Delphi murders.
The state of Virginia announced today that they finally cleared their entire backlog of untested rape kits, some of which go back many years. As a result of the testing, 851 new DNA profiles have been uploaded to national databases to be compared against current or future crimes, and 354 "hits" have been reported to jurisdictions for investigative follow-up.
Virginia eliminates huge backlog of untested rape kits
Here's why this matters for Abby and Libby:
Though we don't know whether the Delphi murders involved sexual assault, we do know from LE statements that there was DNA of some type. If it was the offender's DNA, isn't it exciting to think that there are now 851 more profiles it can be compared to? Just think of the possibilities if Indiana was to clear its backlog(it had almost 5,000 untested kits in 2018), as well as neighboring states like Ohio, Illinois, etc?

Research into murders, especially abduction murders involving children, shows that the majority of offenders do have a criminal record that is often mixed, involving sexual assaults against other children or women, other types of assault, etc. The clearing of any number of previously untested rape kits should be celebrated as an important step that brings LE closer to matching whatever DNA from the Delphi killer that they may have.”

My question:
How long would it take for these approximately 5000 untested rape kits to be tested against RA’s DNA? Or any other state for that matter?

Superb post, Yem.

IMHAspieO mOo ymmv

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

 

[Yemelyan]

BBMFF

Reposted post by @Yemelyan, on 7/9/20, thread #124, post #325:

“I am going to re-post something that I believe is important enough to be on this thread. Obviously I didn't make it clear why it was on-topic so I'll be more explicit this time about why this matters for the Delphi murders.
The state of Virginia announced today that they finally cleared their entire backlog of untested rape kits, some of which go back many years. As a result of the testing, 851 new DNA profiles have been uploaded to national databases to be compared against current or future crimes, and 354 "hits" have been reported to jurisdictions for investigative follow-up.
Virginia eliminates huge backlog of untested rape kits
Here's why this matters for Abby and Libby:
Though we don't know whether the Delphi murders involved sexual assault, we do know from LE statements that there was DNA of some type. If it was the offender's DNA, isn't it exciting to think that there are now 851 more profiles it can be compared to? Just think of the possibilities if Indiana was to clear its backlog(it had almost 5,000 untested kits in 2018), as well as neighboring states like Ohio, Illinois, etc?

Research into murders, especially abduction murders involving children, shows that the majority of offenders do have a criminal record that is often mixed, involving sexual assaults against other children or women, other types of assault, etc. The clearing of any number of previously untested rape kits should be celebrated as an important step that brings LE closer to matching whatever DNA from the Delphi killer that they may have.”

My question:
How long would it take for these approximately 5000 untested rape kits to be tested against RA’s DNA? Or any other state for that matter?

Superb post, Yem.

6,600 sexual assault kits to be tested in Marion County backlog

INDIANAPOLIS — A backlog of roughly 6,600 sexual assault test kits in Marion County will soon undergo examination, but it will likely take years to finish. In 2018, CBS4 Investigates found fl…

cbs4indy.com

IMHAspieO mOo ymmv

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

Marion County, Indiana alone has over 6,000 untested kits (Indianapolis and surrounding). This article from 2022 states that the state of Indiana is working with a grant initiative from the Department of Justice to get these tested but the administrator believes that it will take years and years because they are progressing at a rate of just 20-30 kits per month (though they are hoping to speed this up in the future).

Incidentally, when other states/counties used this sexual assault kit initiative grant to help clear their backlog, data entered into CODIS returned hits on other offenses 25% of the time, which highlights the extreme importance of getting this testing done for cases like Delphi and others. If RA has other offenses that can be linked in any way, getting access to this information is crucial.

Source: 6,600 sexual assault kits to be tested in Marion County backlog

 

[Erutan]

I wonder if they need a warrant to do that, though? Maybe that's why it took so much time for an arrest to be made as well. This would probably take a long time if they needed a warrant every time?

You're prob. right.

I wish we knew in general, what was on the girls' phones.
Not that I want to see/hear it.
If the jury does, that will be traumatic.

But was there a brief video of RA's face or voice ?
I am going to check around msm to see if the Delphi PD said there was additional evidence that one or both girls recorded, but they will not release -- because that's my point: was there enough evidence that the arrest could have happened sooner ?
It's sad that the families had to wait so long.
It's easy to second guess.
If they have the right perp, may justice be swift and harsh.
M00.

 

[Erutan]

BBMFF

Reposted post by @Yemelyan, on 7/9/20, thread #124, post #325:

“I am going to re-post something that I believe is important enough to be on this thread. Obviously I didn't make it clear why it was on-topic so I'll be more explicit this time about why this matters for the Delphi murders.
The state of Virginia announced today that they finally cleared their entire backlog of untested rape kits, some of which go back many years. As a result of the testing, 851 new DNA profiles have been uploaded to national databases to be compared against current or future crimes, and 354 "hits" have been reported to jurisdictions for investigative follow-up.
Virginia eliminates huge backlog of untested rape kits
Here's why this matters for Abby and Libby:
Though we don't know whether the Delphi murders involved sexual assault, we do know from LE statements that there was DNA of some type. If it was the offender's DNA, isn't it exciting to think that there are now 851 more profiles it can be compared to? Just think of the possibilities if Indiana was to clear its backlog(it had almost 5,000 untested kits in 2018), as well as neighboring states like Ohio, Illinois, etc?

Research into murders, especially abduction murders involving children, shows that the majority of offenders do have a criminal record that is often mixed, involving sexual assaults against other children or women, other types of assault, etc. The clearing of any number of previously untested rape kits should be celebrated as an important step that brings LE closer to matching whatever DNA from the Delphi killer that they may have.”

My question:
How long would it take for these approximately 5000 untested rape kits to be tested against RA’s DNA? Or any other state for that matter?

Superb post, Yem.

IMHAspieO mOo ymmv

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

It'd be great if some other families and/or victims could have closure.

 

[The Observer]

Tricia asks at the beginning for Sheryl to give her opinions and thoughts, based on her experience as a Crime Scene Investigator.

That was a good discussion this evening!

JMO

Yes, opinions and thoughts. Not facts. Sheryl also stated "I don't have anymore information than anyone else".

 

[katydid23]

Watching the WS live right now. Sheryl is saying that RA’s wife was given a heads up before the Friday arrest so that she could safely get out of town.

Hmmm...interesting ---did she do so?

 

[The Observer]

Hmmm...interesting ---did she do so?

According to the neighbour (per Barbara MacDonald) the wife hasn't been seen at the house since the day of the arrest.

 

[IDK]

According to the neighbour (per Barbara MacDonald) the wife hasn't been seen at the house since the day of the arrest.

That’s what I’ve heard also. Not to split hairs, but it doesn’t necessarily mean she was specifically warned ahead of time. Although the search warrant and searches themselves were a pretty big warning— IMO only! Further upstream it was acknowledged that Sheryl McCollum herself stated she had no special information on the case and was basically only theorizing.

 

[Elley Mae]

That’s what I’ve heard also. Not to split hairs, but it doesn’t necessarily mean she was specifically warned ahead of time. Although the search warrant and searches themselves were a pretty big warning— IMO only! Further upstream it was acknowledged that Sheryl McCollum herself stated she had no special information on the case and was basically only theorizing.

Seems she would have seen/read the search warrant knowing what LE was looking for.

Jmo

 

[Niner]

Thank you for you info and insight. WISH-TV in Indpls stated that Carroll County, Indiana (like many rural counties in Indiana) does not have a public defender's office and the judge will pick a public defender from a pool of local private attorneys. ..https://www.wishtv.com/news/i-team-8/taxpayers-may-fund-defense-for-suspect-in-2017-delphi-murders-in-carroll-county/

Noticed this in the article...


Allen faces two counts of murder for the killings of Abby and Libby. Although Allen was arrested, the probable cause affidavit remains sealed, a hearing is set for Nov. 22 to determine if the document will be made public, but the hearing could be rescheduled.

 

[FrostedGlass]

My opinion is that the Probable Cause Affidavit will be Ordered to be unsealed after the November 22nd Hearing.

Of course, any confidential information, including the name(s) of any additional persons mentioned in the Affidavit, for example, KAK's, will be redacted, if indeed other names are in it.

JMO

I highly respect your opinion and I really hope that you're right. I found a similar case from 2015 : The Star Press vs Muncie, IN. It contains a very good analysis regarding sealing records. Am I correct in understanding that when a document is sealed without a hearing to do so, it can be unsealed without a hearing? I think they are going to fight very hard to keep it sealed.

Indiana Administrative Rule 9 prescribes the procedure for the withholding of court records. Rule 9(G)(2)(d) allows for court records to be sealed as long as it is in accordance with Ind. Code § 5-14-3-5.5. It appears here Ind. Code § 5-14-3-5.5 has not been satisfied because the “hearing” to seal the records was contemporaneous with the initial hearing, but not properly noticed as a hearing to seal the record.
...
The Court has considerable latitude and discretion to seal records as long as it is in accordance with Ind. Code § 5-14-3-5.5. The Court should either unseal the records in question or hold a hearing as soon as possible and allow public input on the issue.

According to this link, Indiana has a public access counselor. Who makes the final decision on unsealing?

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/15-FC-57.pdf

 

[Niner]

Forgot to add to my above post - @FrostedGlass - I noticed you are here - see any change in the hearing date? TIA!

 

[FrostedGlass]

Forgot to add to my above post - @FrostedGlass - I noticed you are here - see any change in the hearing date? TIA!

Not yet. YAW!

 

[JudgeJudi]

On a serious note, I fervently hope if he did all of this to the girls and their families... that he doesn't evade justice through some loophole, or pretending to be be insane.

The insanity defense is very difficult to prove, and many courts don’t accept it during a criminal trial.

In this case, RMA would have to prove by clear and convincing evidence that he had a severe mental disease or defect at the time he committed the murders and was unable to appreciate the nature or the wrongfulness of his acts.