Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[flashy09]

It would be interesting to know how many males were on the trail that day that were interviewed. Of those, how many physically could fit the video on the bridge? A tall skinny long legged teen wouldn't. An obese person wouldn't. A kid wouldn't. How many were alone? Did LE just assume the killer didn't come forward?

Was LE able to collect phone pings of everyone they knew was on the trail? Would RA phone ping the same place whether he was home or on the trail since he lives so close? Is LE allowed to collect DNA just for being on trail or is more probable cause needed? Sorry if that is the wrong term for DNA collection.

Just trying to figure out how he was missed in the 2 yrs the OBG sketch was out, which is similar enough to RA, especially considering he was alone on the trail and had the physical proportions. No blame, just truly so curious!

 

[Gemmie]

Am I correct in a vague memory of LE asking KAK about a threat KAK had made against a teen who brought another person along when she showed up for a "meet up." Like, KAK avoided the meet-up when he realized another person was present and then later threatened the teen by telling her (on whatever app they were using to communicate) that if she ever did that again, he'd "slit her throat?"

Was that teen who brought someone along for a meetup with KAK a friend of LG's? And if so, did that teen bring the friend along at LG's urging (and perhaps even shared that info with KAK)?

I wonder about this because: if RA had an association with KAK and KAK told him about this, RA might have felt he was at risk of exposure (perhaps one or more of the teens involved were "too close for comfort") and RA might have decided to follow through on the threat KAK had only voiced by urging KAK to arrange (or himself impersonating a-shots to arrange) a "meet up" for a-shots and LG at MHB.

Perhaps the abduction/murders and "moving and staging" of one or both bodies at the scene was with the intent of terrorizing other teens to keep them quiet about the a-shots communications.

If so, then I'd categorize the abduction and murders as "witness elimination" and "witness-intimidation" motivated (to protect RA's secret illegal life from exposure), rather than the work of a serial killer.

(Edited to add "witness elimination" as I mistakenly excluded when initially typing my post.)

Yes. I searched and found several posts from Art19 Murder Sheet which has been linked to several times on this site so assuming it's an approved site. ETA - She was a preteen (12 yrs).

A 27-year-old Indiana man named Kegan Anthony Kline has been brought up in connection with the 2017 murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi, Indiana. He currently stands accused of using social media to catfish and coerce young girls.

This week, the Murder Sheet spoke with a woman named Kayla. She told us that Kline cat-fished her when she was just 12. Over the next few years, he would threaten and abuse her online. In one chilling anecdote, Kayla recalled meeting Kline at a public park. She said he became furious with her for bringing along a friend.

Due to the disturbing allegations contained in this episode, we submitted a tip to authorities using the Delphi hotline, with Kayla's permission.

Here is the link to the vid. Convo starts at 5:16. "I should cut your throat for this" is at 7:30: The Delphi Murders: Kayla's Story

 

[photographer4]

Preliminary Details Continue On Delphi Murders Trial

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. (WOWO): Allen Superior Judge Fran Gull has begun traveling to the Carroll County Courthouse for preliminary work on the murder trial for the man accused of killing 14-year-old Liberty German, and 13-year-old Abigail Williams. On Wednesday, Gull went to Delphi to talk with...

www.wowo.com

 

[Marzipan]

Does anybody else think it odd that in the MS podcast when talking about the information that was looked at again that led to RA, that MS refers to the person who found that info as “someone connected to the investigation” and “someone affiliated with the investigation” and “someone associated with the investigation”. Why not just say it was an investigator…unless it wasn’t.
I don’t usually pay much attention to how things are worded but this jumped out at me and I thought it was weird.

My silly little hopeful fantasy is that it was the secretary who put her finger on it.

 

[LeBlack]

It would be interesting to know how many males were on the trail that day that were interviewed. Of those, how many physically could fit the video on the bridge? A tall skinny long legged teen wouldn't. An obese person wouldn't. A kid wouldn't. How many were alone? Did LE just assume the killer didn't come forward?

Was LE able to collect phone pings of everyone they knew was on the trail? Would RA phone ping the same place whether he was home or on the trail since he lives so close? Is LE allowed to collect DNA just for being on trail or is more probable cause needed? Sorry if that is the wrong term for DNA collection.

Just trying to figure out how he was missed in the 2 yrs the OBG sketch was out, which is similar enough to RA, especially considering he was alone on the trail and had the physical proportions. No blame, just truly so curious!

Maybe they really didn't have human DNA to compare? He was discarded. Why? Just because he came forward?
MOO

 

[MadMcGoo]

Several posts have just been removed that stemmed from discussion of a poll thread. Vote in a poll and move on, or take the discussion of said poll to a private conversation.

Thanks,
Mad

 

[AngTxGal]

Does anybody else think it odd that in the MS podcast when talking about the information that was looked at again that led to RA, that MS refers to the person who found that info as “someone connected to the investigation” and “someone affiliated with the investigation” and “someone associated with the investigation”. Why not just say it was an investigator…unless it wasn’t.
I don’t usually pay much attention to how things are worded but this jumped out at me and I thought it was weird.

Why would that be weird? It would make sense that any investigator would go back and look at old evidence in light of new evidence. And, anyone that does that would be “associated with the investigation” because they are an investigator.
Curious, what did you think it meant?

 

[mrtnira]

Several people in the thread have commented on a before the event and after the event change of appearance in pictures of RA. There was some question if RA had suffered moral conscience or an awareness that killing someone was not what he thought it would be. There could be another factor. Considering that RA felt compelled to identify himself to the police as having been in the park around the time of the murders. He may have spent his time waiting for the proverbial "knock on the door," which will wear on someone.

 

[AngTxGal]

yeah, or he could have gone home and changed, and then joined the search party later and talked to LE at that time, looking very different.

He could have Taken the blue jacket off and worn what looks like a brown hoodie underneath in the bridge footage, with the hood up or down And look quite different.

 

[taylorss]

Why would that be weird? It would make sense that any investigator would go back and look at old evidence in light of new evidence. And, anyone that does that would be “associated with the investigation” because they are an investigator.
Curious, what did you think it meant?

JMO When I heard this, I wondered if maybe it was NOT an investigator that had made the connection, but someone “connected to the investigation” in a less conventional sense... EG like could mean KAK, or a witness who revealed something that turned LE toward RMA for example MOO

Or it could mean nothing, could be just that MS doesn’t know who it was so can’t narrow it down any further… imo

 

[AngTxGal]

Several people in the thread have commented on a before the event and after the event change of appearance in pictures of RA. There was some question if RA had suffered moral conscience or an awareness that killing someone was not what he thought it would be. There could be another factor. Considering that RA felt compelled to identify himself to the police as having been in the park around the time of the murders. He may have spent his time waiting for the proverbial "knock on the door," which will wear on someone.

I wondered that too, but…
He was questioned in 2017 and did not confess.
He likely was questioned at the time of the search and he did not confess.
Now he was arrested, did not confess.
Has been in custody, and he has not confessed.
His plea was Not Guilty at his hearing.

That is several chances to come clean, and the pressure since the Oct search has increased
I’m thinking if he is guilty of the alleged murders, he has gotten comfortable in the fact that he won’t be caught, or won’t be found guilty
Another option is he didn’t do it. I can’t believe they don’t have a rock solid case

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Is he in isolation or is he being harassed by other prisoners?
That was a rumor. That came from someone in prison. Probably not the most valid source of information. (not that staff leaking that info is any more valid, imo)

I believe he’s in isolation but I can’t provide link, so that’s just MOO, for now.

I think this isolation happens a lot. At least it happened to the defendant in the case that brought me here in 2019. Riley Crossman. The man who dumped her body, AM, was held away from everyone else, in his own cell, yet he had black eyes.

So I’m pretty confident that this happens a lot. And IMHO not just by other inmates, if you get my drift.

L&H

mOO ymmv jmvhAspieO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Why would that be weird? It would make sense that any investigator would go back and look at old evidence in light of new evidence. And, anyone that does that would be “associated with the investigation” because they are an investigator.
Curious, what did you think it meant?

I was not questioning that it was done or should have been done. I was questioning why the MS folks didn’t just refer to that person as an investigator and wondered whether their insistence on not doing that indicated it was someone from the outside who had been allowed to go through the early files and tips, and it was that person who found whatever led them to RA.

 

[AngTxGal]

JMO When I heard this, I wondered if maybe it was NOT an investigator that had made the connection, but someone “connected to the investigation” in a less conventional sense... EG like could mean KAK, or a witness who revealed something that turned LE toward RMA for example MOO

Or it could mean nothing, could be just that MS doesn’t know who it was so can’t narrow it down any further… imo

It could be that info KK shared made the connection, but that doesn’t mean KK realized he had filled in the missing piece.
Once RA’s home was being searched and people began to connect that search to the murders, locals may have began to come forward. RA could have been involved in the searched, or attended Abby and Libby events, like a vigil, or press conferences, fund raisers, the ball park dedication. As creepy as that sounds locals may have remembered his presence
It may be more than one piece that filled in the puzzle

 

[retrometro]

Does anybody else think it odd that in the MS podcast when talking about the information that was looked at again that led to RA, that MS refers to the person who found that info as “someone connected to the investigation” and “someone affiliated with the investigation” and “someone associated with the investigation”. Why not just say it was an investigator…unless it wasn’t.
I don’t usually pay much attention to how things are worded but this jumped out at me and I thought it was weird.

I agree the phrasing is a bit awkward. It could be that MS is trying to conceal how they got that information, if it’s from a source who isn’t officially authorized to talk.

 

[SkyBoomer]

I agree the phrasing is a bit awkward. It could be that MS is trying to conceal how they got that information, if it’s from a source who isn’t officially authorized to talk.

They have actually stated that they purposefully will not give the credentials of their sources (although their sources are thoroughly vetted) so that they were not easily identified.

 

[AngTxGal]

I agree the phrasing is a bit awkward. It could be that MS is trying to conceal how they got that information, if it’s from a source who isn’t officially authorized to talk.

MS seems to have stepped forward to reveal critical info to the public, in an ongoing investigation. One of the couple is an attorney. It makes you wonder if they are leaking to the public with the blessing of LE as a tactic for the sake of the investigation, or actually getting insider info from a reliable source to share with the public.
What are the consequences for this source for leaking info to MS? I would think if they are law enforcement the cons would be grave

 

[mrtnira]

I wondered that too, but…
He was questioned in 2017 and did not confess.
He likely was questioned at the time of the search and he did not confess.
Now he was arrested, did not confess.
Has been in custody, and he has not confessed.
His plea was Not Guilty at his hearing.

That is several chances to come clean, and the pressure since the Oct search has increased
I’m thinking if he is guilty of the alleged murders, he has gotten comfortable in the fact that he won’t be caught, or won’t be found guilty
Another option is he didn’t do it. I can’t believe they don’t have a rock solid case

Denial is an amazing thing. Sometimes it's a manufactured thing that takes energy. People have to assert innocence. When the emotional energy for denial drops, then people start changing their story. Then there are some people are so compartmentalized in their minds that they are functionally living in separate realities. This can be useful for agents in espionage, where maintaining separate personalities on assignment is necessary.* Or, it can be evidenced in criminals, where even with video people deny the obvious and their arrest is a conspiracy or failure of justice. I suspect RA is able to practice partial compartmentalization. (I'm waiting for the release of the interrogation videos in a decade.)

*Soviet agent of espionage Rudolf Able maintained multiple personalities successfully, and was only compromised by another Soviet agent looking to defect.

 

[Charlot123]

I’ve been thinking about that too, whether RA had reappeared on LE‘s radar when they changed direction in 2019. Carter seemed angry that day - “We believe you are hiding in plain sight.”

The “Guys” part of the “down the hill” audio was also released at the 2019 PC. I haven‘t heard a clear enough audio of RA’s voice to tell, but perhaps the “Guys” portion is more representative of his day-to-day voice.

jmo

I am not sure they knew it was RA, or had one person in mind, in 2019.

I think this was the time when they realized it was not DN, and that they spent a lot of time chasing a man not involved in that crime.

It happened after they sent their data to GBI, remember? I think that GBI made a good and through job, but for some reason though a couple of people were involved. This is why a much younger sketch appeared, who might have had traits of several potential pois. JMO. For some reason, GBI suspected some relationship between the alleged perpetrators. Maybe it was the witness seeing a young man on the highway, or someone else.

It seemed to me, and it is purely my opinion, that ISP did not know who the perp was and were throwing darts at the wall seeing where they might stick. It would seem not impossible if they changed the perp and made him more “youthful” because they thought that fear for the younger relative being arrested might make the older criminal step forward.

When DC said that BG could have traits of both OBG and YBG, I think they meant, an older and a younger people who have familial similarity.

I don’t think RA was on their horizon at all. I am not sure that they had one YBG in mind, it is quite feasible that there were several. It appeared to me, however, that they were addressing a younger person.

JMO - but this is how it seems to me.

 

[MassGuy]

MS seems to have stepped forward to reveal critical info to the public, in an ongoing investigation. One of the couple is an attorney. It makes you wonder if they are leaking to the public with the blessing of LE as a tactic for the sake of the investigation, or actually getting insider info from a reliable source to share with the public.
What are the consequences for this source for leaking info to MS? I would think if they are law enforcement the cons would be grave

They've talked about their thought process before they release information. Their goal is to inform the public without jeopardizing the investigation. There are certainly things they know that they aren't revealing, and I do know they have asked for law enforcement's blessing before releasing certain things in the past.

I think these leaks are coming from people close to the investigation, but perhaps not directly involved. Law enforcement people talk to others, and it may be those people communicating with MS.

It's something that can have disciplinary repercussions, but it seems that more often than not nothing happens. Some investigations leak like a sieve, especially in major cities when lots of police officers know what's going on behind the scenes.