Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[Gemmie]

This line jumped out at me:

“This case is unlikely any that I’ve seen in an almost 40-year career,” Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”

Why would DC describe the murder case like this, with "different tentacles," if it was as simple as a random psychopath came across two girls, saw his opportunity, and took it? This case has long been described as complex, but I don't think it's just because LE didn't know who the killer was. Maybe the fact that L was likely being catfished, as well, played into the complexity, but that would only be if LE didn't know if it was linked to the murders or not. Now that they've arrested RA, what keeps this so complex?

Regarding Carter's comment about many different tentacles and RA's investigation being very complex... (From this article) They used that same word (complex) talking about KAK's investigation, about how it's complex and extremely complicated. The latter makes me think of "tentacles". Then the 2nd paragraph below in an ~1 yr old article again calls it a complex and extremely complicated "murder investigation". That's more than his CSAM investigation if they bring up the murder investigation.

Indiana State Police released a statement about their investigation into the Delphi murders and Kline. In it, ISP describes the investigation as “long, complex and extremely complicated.”

The Indiana State Police has received many media inquiries since our December 6th press release concerning “anthony_shots” and eventually the identification of Kegan Kline. Your questions are certainly relevant as they relate to a long, complex, and extremely complicated murder investigation.

Yes, it's dated (~1 yr old): What Indiana State Police are saying about Kegan Kline, ‘anthony_shots’ and the Delphi murder investigation

 

[Charlot123]

.

This line jumped out at me:

“This case is unlikely any that I’ve seen in an almost 40-year career,” Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”

Why would DC describe the murder case like this, with "different tentacles," if it was as simple as a random psychopath came across two girls, saw his opportunity, and took it? This case has long been described as complex, but I don't think it's just because LE didn't know who the killer was. Maybe the fact that L was likely being catfished, as well, played into the complexity, but that would only be if LE didn't know if it was linked to the murders or not. Now that they've arrested RA, what keeps this so complex?

The two murdered girls were friends, but different people. Their stories are tightly wound, like two balls of wool. As we try to unwind them, we find out that the stories are complex. We tend to think of teenagers as “two besties who did well at school and played softball”, but they were growing into young women, each with own circumstances.

I think it is one thing, knowing more about the victims.

Also, I can’t discount that there were witnesses to a murder that keep silent. Also, that the murderer and the people who staged/posed were different.

 

[Gemmie]

The two murdered girls were friends, but different people. Their stories are tightly wound, like two balls of wool. As we try to unwind them, we find out that the stories are complex. We tend to think of teenagers as “two besties who did well at school and played softball”, but they were growing into young women, each with own circumstances.

I think it is one thing, knowing more about the victims.

Also, I can’t discount that there were witnesses to a murder that keep silent. Also, that the murderer and the people who staged/posed were different.

I took his statement about complexity "Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”"

...to be about the investigation, not the lives of the 2 victims. MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

ISP: Person in first Delphi sketch is not a person of interest in Libby & Abby's murders

Indiana State Police are now saying the new sketch of the Delphi suspect is their current person of interest and the first sketch - released two years ago - is not a person of interest at this time.

www.wrtv.com

From the linked article:

Indiana State Police also issued the following clarification about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation

What say you, Doug Carter?

And then....
Carter said. "I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

It's been more than two years since Liberty German and Abigail Williams were killed, but investigators continue to hold onto hope.

www.wrtv.com

 

[Boxer]

On the Down the Hill podcast Robert Ives discussed how difficult the technological aspects of this case had been (leading me to think that LE’s ignorance of technology was the main problem getting this solved JMO)

One point Ives made was that everyone assumed they could get all cell tower records just by demanding them or whatever, but that’s not how warrants work! LE has to be clear & targeted about what they’re looking for & why they think it will be there.

They can’t get a warrant for all nearby cell tower data - that would be like having a warrant that everyone who lives within 5 miles of the crime needs to throw open their front door & LE will walk by & peer in.

MOO Ives did though get the records though. IIRC he got all cell traffic for 5 miles radius around Delphi.

 

[Yvettea]

If we look at this investigation objectively we find that A&L have not been identified as best friends but as friends who were walking the bridge together and taking photographs (Libby). Abby served as the model that day and she didn’t seem confident crossing the bridge. In fact, I wondered if Abby was crossing the bridge as some kind of dare or even an initiation. JMT

Abby had been encouraged to play softball by Libby who had experience in the sport and was athletic. JMO. It was improbable, it seemed, that the two of them would be there together that day but tragically for both it was true. YMMV

ETA: I’m trying to say that Libby took at least one photograph of Abby and perhaps one of the bridge. She has been identified as the one who probably took the picture of the bridge (by Gray Hughes I believe.)

Those are only my thoughts on the reason Abby crossed the bridge. She may have simply come there with Libby because the weather was nice, or maybe Abby encouraged Libby to come. It all remains to be seen.

 

[taylorss]

MOO Ives did though get the records though. IIRC he got all cell traffic for 5 miles radius around Delphi.

I don’t know about in this case at all, but it does seem that LE & telecoms companies have managed to find ways to work together on these sorts of things IMO maybe finding a way to trim info requests short of needing a warrant sometimes, or going through a long, multi-stage process that covers everyone’s bases sometimes imo … idk how it’s done but the law is having a devil of a time figuring out how to adapt to the digital world in every different area

Re discussion here about a “very complicated” case, many “tentacles” etc… this talk made me think IMO that this case was bobbled cuz LE had no idea re technology… like they had to chase down a lot of leads before anyone even told them where to look JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I took his statement about complexity "Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”"

...to be about the investigation, not the lives of the 2 victims. MOO

However, given that they were looking for someone local, they had to investigate potential connections to the girls. JMO. In the process, they needed to rule in/out many people. And know more about the girls.
My commentary is more the reflection of the fact that I see no visible connection between RA and the girls. (One more reason why he was overlooked, IMHO).
And btw, I am repeating myself, but if there was, indeed, no connection between RA and the girls, this is such Israel Keys-like MO…really, one wonders if RA had more victims,

 

[SoCalSleuth]

From my own experience - not from biology class - this doesn’t seem right. My sister and mother had eyes that often looked gray-blue but sometimes blue depending on what they wore. My eyes on the other hand appear green to many people but they may be blue or green as I have a lot of gold or brown around the pupil. LOL Have never been clear on this subject.

From a biological perspective there are 6 eye colors - brown, blue, grey, green, hazel and amber.

 

[Prime8]

If we look at this investigation objectively we find that A&L have not been identified as best friends but as friends who were walking the bridge together and taking photographs (Libby). Abby served as the model that day and she didn’t seem confident crossing the bridge. In fact, I wondered if Abby was crossing the bridge as some kind of dare or even an initiation. JMT

Abby had been encouraged to play softball by Libby who had experience in the sport and was athletic. JMO. It was improbable, it seemed, that the two of them would be there together that day but tragically for both it was true. YMMV

ETA: I’m trying to say that Libby took at least one photograph of Abby and perhaps one of the bridge. She has been identified as the one who probably took the picture of the bridge (by Gray Hughes I believe.)

Those are only my thoughts on the reason Abby crossed the bridge. She may have simply come there with Libby because the weather was nice, or maybe Abby encouraged Libby to come. It all remains to be seen.

They obviously spent a lot of time together, I'm not sure if how they identified or "ranked" each other on the friend scale makes a lot of difference. I don't think them going to the bridge together that day was anything out of the ordinary for them; they had a sleep-over together the night as well. I do not believe there was any ill-intent on either ones part. We know quite a bit about their last day together. What we don't know is if they were lured there in any way. Is that what you're speculating?

 

[insearchoflight]

I think LE had two concurrent investigations going on (RA and KAK) as well as others, all unrelated. I think something came to light (maybe that “one tip”) that they were able to ultimately tie RA to the crime and label him as BG.

I think BG just happened to be on that bridge that day taking a walk and probably fuming from some sort of unrelated dispute/domestic violence/what have you that he stumbled upon A&L and was aggravated in some way and took it out on them. He didn’t have a “kill kit”, wasn’t planned, just used what he normally carries with him (maybe a pocket knife or hunting knife?). Completely unrelated to anything that can be traced.

So Libby was yes being catfished by KAK but had nothing to do with her demise.

KAK for whatever reason was trying to act like he knew more or trying to get a lesser sentence by revealing something about the Wabash River but that was all nonsense.

Moo and we will eventually find out I hope.

 

[Boxer]

On the Down the Hill podcast Robert Ives discussed how difficult the technological aspects of this case had been (leading me to think that LE’s ignorance of technology was the main problem getting this solved JMO)

One point Ives made was that everyone assumed they could get all cell tower records just by demanding them or whatever, but that’s not how warrants work! LE has to be clear & targeted about what they’re looking for & why they think it will be there.

They can’t get a warrant for all nearby cell tower data - that would be like having a warrant that everyone who lives within 5 miles of the crime needs to throw open their front door & LE will walk by & peer in.

MOO Ives did get the records though. IIRC he got all cell traffic for 5 miles radius around Delphi.

 

[Yvettea]

They obviously spent a lot of time together, I'm not sure if how they identified or "ranked" each other on the friend scale makes a lot of difference. I don't think them going to the bridge together that day was anything out of the ordinary for them; they had a sleep-over together the night as well. I do not believe there was any ill-intent on either ones part. We know quite a bit about their last day together. What we don't know is if they were lured there in any way. Is that what you're speculating?

What did happen that day? That’s what I’m asking. Was there any reason to cross the bridge other than two girls enjoying the pleasant weather?

• Had they crossed the bridge together on prior days?
• Did one of them dare the other, in a friendly way?
• Could crossing the bridge be a part of being a member of the girls softball team?

Just as we assume Libby took the picture of the bridge maybe we assume things about their relationship that aren’t quite as they seem. Maybe Libby was helping Abby with her photography.

At any rate I’m not implying wrong-doing on Abby or Libby’s part. The girls are victims IMO

 

[The Observer]

If we look at this investigation objectively we find that A&L have not been identified as best friends but as friends who were walking the bridge together and taking photographs (Libby). Abby served as the model that day and she didn’t seem confident crossing the bridge. In fact, I wondered if Abby was crossing the bridge as some kind of dare or even an initiation. JMT

Abby had been encouraged to play softball by Libby who had experience in the sport and was athletic. JMO. It was improbable, it seemed, that the two of them would be there together that day but tragically for both it was true. YMMV

ETA: I’m trying to say that Libby took at least one photograph of Abby and perhaps one of the bridge. She has been identified as the one who probably took the picture of the bridge (by Gray Hughes I believe.)

Those are only my thoughts on the reason Abby crossed the bridge. She may have simply come there with Libby because the weather was nice, or maybe Abby encouraged Libby to come. It all remains to be seen.

Kelsi has said how shy Abby was around people and said Libby was the only person Abby was herself around. They had sleepovers. Why is it "improbable" that the two of them would be there together? I don't get what picture you're trying to paint here?

They obviously spent a lot of time together, I'm not sure if how they identified or "ranked" each other on the friend scale makes a lot of difference. I don't think them going to the bridge together that day was anything out of the ordinary for them; they had a sleep-over together the night as well. I do not believe there was any ill-intent on either ones part. We know quite a bit about their last day together. What we don't know is if they were lured there in any way. Is that what you're speculating?

Agreed. Also Libby asked her sister to come along so I'm guessing there was no ill-intent planned or it wasn't for any sort of 'initiation'.

 

[Yvettea]

No ill intent intended. I’ve never heard that Kelsi explained their relationship in that way, or I’ve forgotten. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Prime8]

What did happen that day? That’s what I’m asking. Was there any reason to cross the bridge other than two girls enjoying the pleasant weather?

• Had they crossed the bridge together on prior days?
• Did one of them dare the other, in a friendly way?
• Could crossing the bridge be a part of being a member of the girls softball team?

Just as we assume Libby took the picture of the bridge maybe we assume things about their relationship that aren’t quite as they seem. Maybe Libby was helping Abby with her photography.

At any rate I’m not implying wrong-doing on Abby or Libby’s part. The girls are victims IMO

Abby had never crossed the bridge prior to that day. Libby had. They had both been to the area before.

It sounds like crossing the bridge was a thing people did. Not to say kids don't dare each other to do things, but from what I've heard of Libby, she wasn't the kind of person that would push someone to do something they didn't want to do. I don't see any basis for it being some sort of initiation. Especially since it was February and softball usually doesn't start until the the spring in the midwest.

Libby had a phone, Abby did not. I'm not sure how their picture taking habits that day equates to their relationship. Kids are constantly taking pictures of everything, all the time. Abby just didn't have a phone and didn't have her camera with her.

 

[The Observer]

Just as we assume Libby took the picture of the bridge maybe we assume things about their relationship that aren’t quite as they seem. Maybe Libby was helping Abby with her photography.

RSBM. Libby was a 14yo girl with a smartphone, taking pics is what young people do. I think pics were taken also because they were being followed. Abby did not have a phone.

 

[Yvettea]

Taking pictures of everything IS something teens do now. I forget how much things have changed - in the last 30 years.

 

[The Observer]

Abby had never crossed the bridge prior to that day. Libby had. They had both been to the area before.

It sounds like crossing the bridge was a thing people did. Not to say kids don't dare each other to do things, but from what I've heard of Libby, she wasn't the kind of person that would push someone to do something they didn't want to do. I don't see any basis for it being some sort of initiation. Especially since it was February and softball usually doesn't start until the the spring in the midwest.

Libby had a phone, Abby did not. I'm not sure how their picture taking habits that day equates to their relationship. Kids are constantly taking pictures of everything, all the time. Abby just didn't have a phone and didn't have her camera with her.

Exactly.

Also Libby had an adventurous spirit and Abby was shy. It's been said Abby felt safe with Libby so I'm thinking Abby being on the bridge was her getting out of her comfort zone because she was with Libby. Libby talking pics as a 'Look Abby is actually on the bridge!' type momento to probably show her sister or friends.

 

[CSIDreamer]

If we look at this investigation objectively we find that A&L have not been identified as best friends but as friends who were walking the bridge together and taking photographs (Libby). Abby served as the model that day and she didn’t seem confident crossing the bridge. In fact, I wondered if Abby was crossing the bridge as some kind of dare or even an initiation. JMT

Abby had been encouraged to play softball by Libby who had experience in the sport and was athletic. JMO. It was improbable, it seemed, that the two of them would be there together that day but tragically for both it was true. YMMV

ETA: I’m trying to say that Libby took at least one photograph of Abby and perhaps one of the bridge. She has been identified as the one who probably took the picture of the bridge (by Gray Hughes I believe.)

Those are only my thoughts on the reason Abby crossed the bridge. She may have simply come there with Libby because the weather was nice, or maybe Abby encouraged Libby to come. It all remains to be seen.

Actually, Abby and Libby were identified as best friends. And they were both athletic.

This is a good article.

Delphi Daughters: Untold story of Abby & Libby

Abby & Libby had a bond stronger than most, one that, even in the face of the ultimate fear, wasn't broken.

www.wrtv.com