Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[Davemac1]

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Hey, if he reported his presence on the bridge to an officer on 13th Feb, then he would not have yet known about the footage captured on Libby's phone. He was just covering his back should anyone have seen him around at that time, or if he was to be forensically linked to the area i.e. via a cigarette butt, spit, hairs, etc...

Edited to correct a typo/grammar

If this whole thing was meticulously planned as many suspect, then his actions in the hours and days after the bodies were found would have been a big part of his plans.

I think he knew the park warder, and made a point of bumping into him whenever he was on the trails, which I believe was regularly. Especially in the months leading up to the murders. Not for the purpose of finding victims per se. Finding a suitable location no doubt, but primarily more for gaining a trust alibi.

So when the bodies were discovered, he made a point of telling his family he was there. But he was always there. Hiking ? Hunting maybe? so they thought nothing much of it. He told them he would make this known straight away and headed off to tell his pal the warder.
And knowing the stand up Richard Allen well, the warder either forgot to tell anyone as it was unlikely to be this great guy he used to see on the trails all of the time or he told LE and they took his glowing reference as a good enough character witness.

Huge gamble by RA, especially when the video surfaced ( which definitely wasnt part of his plans!) But I guess he factored in how incompetent the authorities involved in this really were going to be.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I do think there was some religious element. During an early press conference, directly addressing the killer, Doug Carter states that he recently watched the movie The Shack. Well, that just so happens to be a movie about a murder and Christianity. Given how carefully Doug Carter was speaking, this was certainly no coincidence.

Some of things that I envision when I hear non-secular:

Nativity scene
Jesus and his mother Mary
The Last Supper ( kinda makes no sense)

The one (if it was done to mimic something iconic) that I would lean toward would be the Nativity .

Having said that - it could have been as simple as leaving a cross and making the girls appear to be in prayer.

At any rate , the thought of a non-secular crime scene makes me feel sickand angry.

JMO

 

[stormymama]

total speculation, thinking out loud, MOO

I wonder if the bodies were 'staged' or 'posed' to make it look like a murder-suicide although it clearly wasn't? (going along with the belief many have that people who commit suicide do not go to heaven?)

 

[LammyTheRobot]

The girls had open casket services.
I am feeling that wouldn't have been the case in dismemberment-
that coupled with how quickly the murders took place- I would assume dismembering a human body would take a bit of time.

JMO

Open casket true, good point, though bodies of deceased are usually clothed in those situations.

 

[MistyWaters]

If this whole thing was meticulously planned as many suspect, then his actions in the hours and days after the bodies were found would have been a big part of his plans.

I think he knew the park warder, and made a point of bumping into him whenever he was on the trails, which I believe was regularly. Especially in the months leading up to the murders. Not for the purpose of finding victims per se. Finding a suitable location no doubt, but primarily more for gaining a trust alibi.

So when the bodies were discovered, he made a point of telling his family he was there. But he was always there. Hiking ? Hunting maybe? so they thought nothing much of it. He told them he would make this known straight away and headed off to tell his pal the warder.
And knowing the stand up Richard Allen well, the warder either forgot to tell anyone as it was unlikely to be this great guy he used to see on the trails all of the time or he told LE and they took his glowing reference as a good enough character witness.

Huge gamble by RA, especially when the video surfaced ( which definitely wasnt part of his plans!) But I guess he factored in how incompetent the authorities involved in this really were going to be.

I’ve seen nothing to suggest the Delphi Historic trail system employed a Warden (which I assume you mean instead of warner). Delphi is a small community and the trails were built and maintained by local volunteers. It’s not a State or National Park.

But yes, it’s entirely possible RA often walked the trails.

 

[SMK777]

If this whole thing was meticulously planned as many suspect, then his actions in the hours and days after the bodies were found would have been a big part of his plans.

I think he knew the park warder, and made a point of bumping into him whenever he was on the trails, which I believe was regularly. Especially in the months leading up to the murders. Not for the purpose of finding victims per se. Finding a suitable location no doubt, but primarily more for gaining a trust alibi.

So when the bodies were discovered, he made a point of telling his family he was there. But he was always there. Hiking ? Hunting maybe? so they thought nothing much of it. He told them he would make this known straight away and headed off to tell his pal the warder.
And knowing the stand up Richard Allen well, the warder either forgot to tell anyone as it was unlikely to be this great guy he used to see on the trails all of the time or he told LE and they took his glowing reference as a good enough character witness.

Huge gamble by RA, but I guess he factored in how incompetent the authorities involved in this really were going to be.

I had had very similar thoughts:

1. That RA walked the trails often (it was very convenient to his residence)

2. That he perhaps already knew one of the conservation officers personally from his Pharmacy work at CVS. (Didn’t have to cultivate this, happened naturally)

3. As Sheriff Leazenby and others said, RA was known to be professional, unassuming, an exceptionally nice family man and Delphi home owner— so the officer would quickly assert to investigators that, this man is a known conscientious professional and family man, who comes to the trails often, and came forward quickly. Nothing to look into there. Just a concerned citizen.

It worked for nearly 6 years. “Hiding in plain sight”.

 

[MistyWaters]

I do think there was some religious element. During an early press conference, directly addressing the killer, Doug Carter states that he recently watched the movie The Shack. Well, that just so happens to be a movie about a murder and Christianity. Given how carefully Doug Carter was speaking, this was certainly no coincidence.

No I don’t think it was a coincidence only because of DC’s own religious beliefs, as well as the families and community it general, so it was his of relating to the audience. Throughout several press conferences religious references have often been mentioned. At one point it was said the investigative team began each day with a prayer.

What‘s the connection between RA and religion? Nothing that I’ve read.

 

[TL4S]

I think I have listened to every RI's interview out there, but I still can't find anything he (or anyone else) has said about "non-secular." It keeps coming up, but a link has never been included. Please, if anyone knows where this is coming from, could you post the interview. It's a significant detail, if factual, but at this point, I'm not sure it is.

 

[MistyWaters]

Open casket true, good point, though bodies of deceased are usually clothed in those situations.

For the sake of the respective families, who have devoted remarkable effort in commemorating the girls’ lives, I’d hope that specific evidence relating to the condition of the bodies after death is withheld from the public considering the girls were both minors, especially if it involves any sort of perversion.

There’s been speculation of gruesome photos being posted on the dark web, so would it be appropriate that anything remotely similar be freely released to the public for just anyone to look at? I surely don’t think so.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

OK, so a creepy thought just came to me, please delete if not appropriate. Upthread it was said that in one interview it was implied there was a non-secular element to how the bodies were left.

In the above interview Carter said “ how you left them in the woods is NOT what they are experiencing today” Since the investigators seem somewhat religious, they would believe both these young ladies are in Heaven, IMO. I wonder if they were left in a pose of some sort indicating the opposite of Heaven. (Edited by me to be less graphic)

Just a horrible thought, hope it’s not true.

Non secular means religious, but there might be different religions. Medieval witch-hunting is also, religious. <modsnip>

 

[minazoe]

I feel like we should steer away from imagining a religious component until we hear more..it doesn't really change anything, except as to how it may figure into the killer's psychology...this isn't a horror movie , it's real life..we owe it to the girls to stick to facts until we know more...obviously RA isn't that religious or he would not kill..so if he hates God that is no surprise.

with these details you are just speculating on the gore factor and the salacious details of a murder..did they run? did they scream? were they posed with crosses ? were they humiliated..? was it sexual? how? how did they die?

does it matter much ? in the end they were brutally murdered and the full details will come in time. mOO

 

[photographer4]

Some of things that I envision when I hear non-secular:

Nativity scene
Jesus and his mother Mary
The Last Supper ( kinda makes no sense)

The one (if it was done to mimic something iconic) that I would lean toward would be the Nativity .

Having said that - it could have been as simple as leaving a cross and making the girls appear to be in prayer.

At any rate , the thought of a non-secular crime scene makes me feel sickand angry.

JMO

Crucifiction. Right side up or upside down. Wouldn’t be hard to stage and might not even be noticed to someone who wasn’t looking for it. Remember that LE told us that the searchers who found the bodies did not immediately realize what they had stumbled on. I’ve linked the article to that several times in various threads though I don’t currently have it handy to link again. It could be a pose without the nails through hands and feet. It could have been the slide slashed as Jesus was slashed on the cross. It may be something you wouldn’t even think of unless you were looking for it, or I hate to say it, viewing the bodies without clothing postmortem (eg: a slash to the side would result in significant blood loss yes, but if someone redressed the kids postmortem, then it is possible they finders may have not noticed such a wound.

 

[Megnut]

Could it be that RA came forward simply because he couldn't help himself, inserted himself into the investigation because that's what some criminals sometimes do?

Arrogant, brazen, compulsive.

Not unlike the crime itself.

I think we tend to think in terms of fear, guilt, self-preservation -- but IMO that's because that's what we project -- but he's a different beast altogether. There's an unchecked fearlessness in the events of 2/13.

I don't think RA was ever afraid of being caught. To him, IMO, it was all a chess game. A game of wits that energized him.

A murderer masquerading as a man.

Hiding in plain sight. And enjoying it.

All kinds of awful.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I feel like we should steer away from imagining a religious component until we hear more..it doesn't really change anything, except as to how it may figure into the killer's psychology...this isn't a horror movie , it's real life..we owe it to the girls to stick to facts until we know more...obviously RA isn't that religious or he would not kill..so if he hates God that is no surprise.

with these details you are just speculating on the gore factor and the salacious details of a murder..did they run? did they scream? were they posed with crosses ? were they humiliated..? was it sexual? how? how did they die?

does it matter much ? in the end they were brutally murdered and the full details will come in time. mOO

It might because it could be an argument/counter argument for his involvement. I remember that DC alleged in his “directly to the killer” speech that the man was religious. If we think about group involvement, then “religious, but pagan” or something similar would be more expected.

 

[Charlot123]

I’ve wondered why two deer would be attracted to the area where two bodies were lying at all? Honestly that is just so bizarre to me. I’m no expert on animal behaviour but it just seems odd to me. Deer are not going to eat the remains. Would the bodies smell odd to them and keep them away generally? Would the presence of so many people in the general area in the time before the girls were found keep them away? Apparently not - but why not? Was there a station set up to draw deer into that general area? If so, why? So weird. Maybe its not as odd as I think it is…

I know one thing that attracts deers. It is salt. You want to leave some outside for them, every winter. Could it be possible that the perp left something to get rid of the DNA that was salty?

 

[Yvettea]

Who or what is RI?

 

[Charlot123]

Some of things that I envision when I hear non-secular:

Nativity scene
Jesus and his mother Mary
The Last Supper ( kinda makes no sense)

The one (if it was done to mimic something iconic) that I would lean toward would be the Nativity .

Having said that - it could have been as simple as leaving a cross and making the girls appear to be in prayer.

At any rate , the thought of a non-secular crime scene makes me feel sickand angry.

JMO

Could be that. Could be one of Medieval frescoes where two saints are kneeling and holding something indicating their death (you might remember what I thought about).

But of interest, DC who was once interviewed on that bridge (so maybe, not so scary, that bridge?), said that he looked to see the CS for the first time and was shocked, but almost nauseated, at least this is how I understood it.

Given that he was not close, it must have been something seen. An inverted cross? A deer’s head? A figurine of Lucifer? Something religious, but nauseating to DC?

 

[Yvettea]

Could be that. Could be one of Medieval frescoes where two saints are kneeling and holding something indicating their death (you might remember what I thought about).

But of interest, DC who was once interviewed on that bridge (so maybe, not so scary, that bridge?), said that he looked to see the CS for the first time and was shocked, but almost nauseated, at least this is how I understood it.

Given that he was not close, it must have been something seen. An inverted cross? A deer’s head? A figurine of Lucifer? Something religious, but nauseating to DC?

Interesting about DC, that he found the crime scene nauseating. As to the bridge being scary, Abby was fairly small making crossing the bridge more difficult.

 

[chocolope]

Other connections to religion:

- In an interview when DC was asked what he thought when he listened to "down the hill", he said his first thought was that it was the voice of "the devil"
- The press conference was held in a church (apparently due to lack of space, but again, aren't there other locations that would work?)
- DC mentioning The Shack - again, this was very deliberately included, likely at the direction of the FBI profiling team

 

[Charlot123]

Interesting about DC, that he found the crime scene nauseating. As to the bridge being scary, Abby was fairly small making crossing the bridge more difficult.

I don’t want to search for that interview, just because we are all overwhelmed with them, all these years. So I can’t quote him. But if he said, I saw it and immediately felt like vomiting, I would not be surprised. So either it was shockingly nasty, or maybe religiously indecent. Both would cause such a reaction in DC, I assume, but I imagine BG, a man who goes to church with his wife and deep inside, ridicules religion? But deep inside, as he is “on the good side of the law and religion”.