Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[PawneeDew]

THIS! Is what I just can't absorb. How the heck can the two sketches be used together? Only reason I can think of is if there were two individuals involved. But, and that is a big but, each sketch was portrayed by LE as THE BG. This is really bothering me. JMO

For some reason I keep thinking the 'younger looking' sketch had to do with the fake profile of the young male model? Just speculation, moo

 

[photographer4]

In the article discussing the background of RA’s attorneys, I noticed that one of their other clients was arrested for murder and the probable cause had been sealed. I thought that was interesting.

Who picked the attorneys to represent RA? Was he provided a list only? A list with bullet points of career highlights? Or did he have a say at all? Did a judge just say you’re assigned X and X??

Given that the attorney was successful in having another PC sealed… one has to wonder if a judge picked this guy knowing he would argue to keep it sealed?

 

[photographer4]

I agree. He was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

"He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them," said Libby's grandma, Becky Patty.

I also read somewhere that he started lowering his binoculars after sighting the deer and that's when he saw them.

Families of teens murdered on Delphi, Ind. trail speak out 1 year after discovery of bodies

I’ve wondered why two deer would be attracted to the area where two bodies were lying at all? Honestly that is just so bizarre to me. I’m no expert on animal behaviour but it just seems odd to me. Deer are not going to eat the remains. Would the bodies smell odd to them and keep them away generally? Would the presence of so many people in the general area in the time before the girls were found keep them away? Apparently not - but why not? Was there a station set up to draw deer into that general area? If so, why? So weird. Maybe its not as odd as I think it is…

 

[Marzipan]

There had been light rain in the early morning of the 12th so I wonder if footprints would have been left at either end of the bridge? I don't remember any mention of them so I guess not.

I sure do think, expect, and hope there were footprints and that they have just held it back. With all the volunteers walking all over the place though, I imagine the only ones that matter would be those all around the bodies. I sure hope no volunteers that can’t be 100% excluded as perps did not go that close.

 

[Gemmie]

This part has always intrigued me:
RI:
All I can say about the situation with Abby and Libby is that there was a lot more physical evidence than at that crime scene. And it’s probably not what you would imagine, or what people think that I’m talking about, it’s probably not.

The way I interpret it, in the context of his entire statement, is that there was a lot more physical evidence at A & L's CS than at a murder like he described right before. But that physical evidence is not what we would expect.

So what might we expect would be there? Bodily fluids, maybe? RI said it's impossible to think of a motivation for the crime. I would expect a sexual motivation, but maybe not. A murder weapon? Footprints? DNA? Fingerprints? These are what I might expect. I wonder what "physical evidence" was there that we wouldn't expect.

What physical evidence we wouldn't expect... Now that's a tough one. You're making me rack my brain here (pre my morning coffee) trying to come up with something we wouldn't expect. Whatever it was there wasn't a whole lot of time in which to do it before the need to get out of dodge and when the search party started.

So some ideas..... (with a warning that some might not want to read these sorts of things. They're a tad disturbing.)

Another case I was watching here the perp placed Post-it notes on the soles of the victims feet with the numbers 1 and 0 written on them so perhaps he placed something on them either that he had brought with him, or that he found lying around the area. I seriously doubt anyone else would do the Post-it note thing other than the perp I mentioned. It's just too weird.

Things (sticks, stones, leaves, etc.) could be inserted into body cavities (mouth, ears, nose) or pressed into their hands when it was obvious the girls wouldn't have been murdered while holding such and such. They could have been drawn on with pens, markers, paint or mud. He could have placed their shoes on the wrong feet, the other girls feet, or their hands.

They could have been posed in weird ways. One body could have been placed across the other body to form a cross. Bodies could have been placed the opposite of the other. One facing up, the other facing down, one's head at the other's feet. They could have been staged like they were "doing" something to each other. Their hair could have been decorated with leaves and feathers. Their bodies could have been on the shore with their heads in the water. Or maybe placed so just their feet were in the water.

He could have put bright red lipstick on them. He could have drawn or carved some sort of design on them like a tattoo or brand. He could have slashed their mouths to make them smile in a Joker-esqe way. He could have removed some body parts (ear lobes, lips, fingers & or toes, eye lids, eyes, nose, etc.). Maybe he braided their hair together as one.

Whatever he did we know the girls lost a lot of blood. I was about to leave it at that and hit Post Reply but that made me think of one more thing since I was mulling over that the loss of blood was from the murder and not the staging... Maybe he peeled off some of their skin. That would be pretty bloody.

I know... all far out but RI did say the physical evidence was something we wouldn't expect. I'd hate to see what I came up with had I had my morning cup of coffee.

Here are some 'calling cards' that other SK's have used: These 10 Sickening Calling Cards Left By Serial Killers Will Send Shivers Down Your Spine...

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I’ve wondered why two deer would be attracted to the area where two bodies were lying at all? Honestly that is just so bizarre to me. I’m no expert on animal behaviour but it just seems odd to me. Deer are not going to eat the remains. Would the bodies smell odd to them and keep them away generally? Would the presence of so many people in the general area in the time before the girls were found keep them away? Apparently not - but why not? Was there a station set up to draw deer into that general area? If so, why? So weird. Maybe its not as odd as I think it is…

I can think of two reasons. One, it was just a coincidence. Mr. And Mrs. Bambi just walking around and standing around. Unrelated. Two, it’s not a coincidence. I’ve never had a pet deer, but I’ve had goats and dogs and horses etc. They ,like humans, are often curious and /or empathetic and responsive to traumatic events. Both my horse and dogs would be upset if I cried or fell down or even just lay down.(impossible to do sit ups with a dog in the house. Great excuse.)

 

[Ontario Mom]

OK, so a creepy thought just came to me, please delete if not appropriate. Upthread it was said that in one interview it was implied there was a non-secular element to how the bodies were left.

In the above interview Carter said “ how you left them in the woods is NOT what they are experiencing today” Since the investigators seem somewhat religious, they would believe both these young ladies are in Heaven, IMO. I wonder if they were left in a pose of some sort indicating the opposite of Heaven. (Edited by me to be less graphic)

Just a horrible thought, hope it’s not true.

I thought the exact same thing when he said that. Some sort of ghoulish, religious element. Whether the perp was a practitioner or just trying to make it appear that way.

jmo

 

[minazoe]

Maybe too graphic. I wonder if one of them could be a shoe in the driveway. (Maybe some odd fetish; I can’t shed the murder in Vermillion, SD, where the victim looked like Libby and where a pair of shoes was found next to the lake she was found in.)

Alicia Hummel

 

[Prime8]

Who picked the attorneys to represent RA? Was he provided a list only? A list with bullet points of career highlights? Or did he have a say at all? Did a judge just say you’re assigned X and X??

Given that the attorney was successful in having another PC sealed… one has to wonder if a judge picked this guy knowing he would argue to keep it sealed?

The public defenders office typically assigns the public defender. There is a pool and they can be assigned randomly, based on experience, based on availability, etc. I would imagine with a potential death penalty case, there are a select few that are qualified.

 

[Justice101]

I’ve wondered why two deer would be attracted to the area where two bodies were lying at all? Honestly that is just so bizarre to me. I’m no expert on animal behaviour but it just seems odd to me. Deer are not going to eat the remains. Would the bodies smell odd to them and keep them away generally? Would the presence of so many people in the general area in the time before the girls were found keep them away? Apparently not - but why not? Was there a station set up to draw deer into that general area? If so, why? So weird. Maybe its not as odd as I think it is…

I don't think there is any real data on such a thing. Deer normally avoid humans but a motionless human who perhaps smells bad might not be a threat.

Also, that is a very isolated location and I can see with all the searches that this might be a safe location for deer to harbor.

Yeh, I agree.. head scratcher.

 

[TheBishop]

I

A very bold move to place himself there when he does resemble bridge guy. He must of been scared somebody had seen him walking that day to come forward and place himself on the bridge.

Hey, if he reported his presence on the bridge to an officer on 13th Feb, then he would not have yet known about the footage captured on Libby's phone. He was just covering his back should anyone have seen him around at that time, or if he was to be forensically linked to the area i.e. via a cigarette butt, spit, hairs, etc...

Edited to correct a typo/grammar

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't think there is any real data on such a thing. Deer normally avoid humans but a motionless human who perhaps smells bad might not be a threat.

Also, that is a very isolated location and I can see with all the searches that this might be a safe location for deer to harbor.

Yeh, I agree.. head scratcher.

Another thoughf is if the deer were up hill and the wind was coming from the north the deer may not have been able to smell anything down wide/hill.

Jmo

 

[chocolope]

I thought the exact same thing when he said that. Some sort of ghoulish, religious element. Whether the perp was a practitioner or just trying to make it appear that way.

jmo

I do think there was some religious element. During an early press conference, directly addressing the killer, Doug Carter states that he recently watched the movie The Shack. Well, that just so happens to be a movie about a murder and Christianity. Given how carefully Doug Carter was speaking, this was certainly no coincidence.

 

[O.Incandenza]

And then....
Carter said. "I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

It's been more than two years since Liberty German and Abigail Williams were killed, but investigators continue to hold onto hope.

www.wrtv.com

The sketch statements were just weird. My assumption is that the sketches came from different witnesses and depict someone that was seen on or near the trails and hadn't been identified. ISP didn't actually know if they were the same person.

So initially they have both sketches done, look at them, and decide that they don't represent the same person. Then they have to choose which one to release. For whatever reason they pick the sketch of the older man. Maybe the witness was more credible, the sighting was closer to the bridge, or it bore a closer resemblance to the video or whatever. Eventually after years of having no luck with that sketch, they decide they might as well release the sketch of the younger man.

But they didn't have a clear answer as to whether it's a sketch of the same person because they didn't know themselves.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

OK, so a creepy thought just came to me, please delete if not appropriate. Upthread it was said that in one interview it was implied there was a non-secular element to how the bodies were left.

In the above interview Carter said “ how you left them in the woods is NOT what they are experiencing today” Since the investigators seem somewhat religious, they would believe both these young ladies are in Heaven, IMO. I wonder if they were left in a pose of some sort indicating the opposite of Heaven. (Edited by me to be less graphic)

Just a horrible thought, hope it’s not true.

Dismemberment, quite likely, IMO. Most traditional religious views on death envision a "broken" body in-tact in the afterlife.

 

[Gemmie]

I don't think there is any real data on such a thing. Deer normally avoid humans but a motionless human who perhaps smells bad might not be a threat.

Also, that is a very isolated location and I can see with all the searches that this might be a safe location for deer to harbor.

Yeh, I agree.. head scratcher.

I have wild deer (turkeys, etc.) here. The turkey and deer are used to people since they live in/on the edge of the city. They don't run off as you might imagine. They just strut on by going from point A to point B if they aren't feeling threatened. And oddly, cars aren't threatening to them. I sure wish they were. They'll slowly strut on across a 4 lane road with no fear. I just don't think their brains have evolved with things like humans and cars can pose a threat to them and they need to run off and hide. Also, birds (jay's towhee's, etc.) are getting used to people as well. I've had jay's hop by doing bird business literally 1' from where I was sitting and reading. I had one land 3 ' from me as I was watering. It cocked its head and stared up at me as I stood frozen holding a hose. It watched me for a moment, then hopped a foot away to eat blueberries while I was standing 3' away. Now if I had flapped my arms around or yelled I know it would have flown off because it felt threatened. Now if only that would work with the darn woodpeckers. I can get within a foot from them and they won't fly off, not matter how much yelling and arm flapping I'm doing. I'm also hitting the pole they are on with a broom handle and they will simply move to the side opposite of me. They are eye level! Not like they are 15' up from where I am.

JMO but I think since some wild animals live in close proximity to us they are relaxed about humans more than I wish they were.

 

[Gemmie]

I do think there was some religious element. During an early press conference, directly addressing the killer, Doug Carter states that he recently watched the movie The Shack. Well, that just so happens to be a movie about a murder and Christianity. Given how carefully Doug Carter was speaking, this was certainly no coincidence.

Maybe the opposite like satanism.

 

[MistyWaters]

The sketch statements were just weird. My assumption is that the sketches came from different witnesses and depict someone that was seen on or near the trails and hadn't been identified. ISP didn't actually know if they were the same person.

So initially they have both sketches done, look at them, and decide that they don't represent the same person. Then they have to choose which one to release. For whatever reason they pick the sketch of the older man. Maybe the witness was more credible, the sighting was closer to the bridge, or it bore a closer resemblance to the video or whatever. Eventually after years of having no luck with that sketch, they decide they might as well release the sketch of the younger man.

But they didn't have a clear answer as to whether it's a sketch of the same person because they didn't know themselves.

I agree, the sketches were of someone unknown sighted in the area, released as an investigative tool, an aid, to receive tips from the public so LE they could investigation that individual further. As we know, nobody witnessed the murders so a suspect only proven to have been in the area is not proof beyond reasonable doubt of murder. So it’s not as if the prosecutor intends to show the sketches to the jury expecting that alone to result in an immediate guilty verdict. IMO the sketches really aren’t very significant any longer now that an arrest has been made and presumably LE has strong evidence to link RA to the actual crime.

JMO

 

[stacey_victoria]

Dismemberment, quite likely, IMO. Most traditional religious views on death envision a "broken" body in-tact in the afterlife.

Not something that could be done quickly or easily though (I imagine ) and hasn't it been widely speculated that the perp didn't spend that long at the scene?

 

[Ravenmoon]

Dismemberment, quite likely, IMO. Most traditional religious views on death envision a "broken" body in-tact in the afterlife.

The girls had open casket services.
I am feeling that wouldn't have been the case in dismemberment-
that coupled with how quickly the murders took place- I would assume dismembering a human body would take a bit of time.

JMO