Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

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Crucifiction. Right side up or upside down. Wouldn’t be hard to stage and might not even be noticed to someone who wasn’t looking for it. Remember that LE told us that the searchers who found the bodies did not immediately realize what they had stumbled on. I’ve linked the article to that several times in various threads though I don’t currently have it handy to link again. It could be a pose without the nails through hands and feet. It could have been the slide slashed as Jesus was slashed on the cross. It may be something you wouldn’t even think of unless you were looking for it, or I hate to say it, viewing the bodies without clothing postmortem (eg: a slash to the side would result in significant blood loss yes, but if someone redressed the kids postmortem, then it is possible they finders may have not noticed such a wound.
You could be right in many ways.

As someone who professionally sees photographs from the absolutely most horrific crime scenes, often it takes a minute to even recognise a human in front of you. Horrid to say. And each one of the photos and videos stays with me forever. Definitely middle of the night sleep-loss material…
 
I’ve wondered why two deer would be attracted to the area where two bodies were lying at all? Honestly that is just so bizarre to me. I’m no expert on animal behaviour but it just seems odd to me. Deer are not going to eat the remains. Would the bodies smell odd to them and keep them away generally? Would the presence of so many people in the general area in the time before the girls were found keep them away? Apparently not - but why not? Was there a station set up to draw deer into that general area? If so, why? So weird. Maybe its not as odd as I think it is…
Deer were common in the area and in fact there was at least one deer stand where people could climb up to see them, but hunting is prohibited.

No hunting.jpg
 
I’ve wondered why two deer would be attracted to the area where two bodies were lying at all? Honestly that is just so bizarre to me. I’m no expert on animal behaviour but it just seems odd to me. Deer are not going to eat the remains. Would the bodies smell odd to them and keep them away generally? Would the presence of so many people in the general area in the time before the girls were found keep them away? Apparently not - but why not? Was there a station set up to draw deer into that general area? If so, why? So weird. Maybe its not as odd as I think it is…
Deer are attracted to animal carcasses, no reason why they wouldn't be attracted also to human remains.
 
It might because it could be an argument/counter argument for his involvement. I remember that DC alleged in his “directly to the killer” speech that the man was religious. If we think about group involvement, then “religious, but pagan” or something similar would be more expected.

I definately don’t recall DC referring to the killer as “religious”. Doing so doesn’t make any sense given he’s a man of faith himself.

However he did refer to the crime as the “epitome of evil”.
 
Lots of kids used to hang out near the bridge but very few crossed it. It is very dangerous and there's a part where you'd have to take a giant step over a missing tie it and if you weren't looking you'd fall 63' feet to the ground.

View attachment 380542

!!! No way … I had no idea the bridge was falling apart like that… eeek
 
I think I have listened to every RI's interview out there, but I still can't find anything he (or anyone else) has said about "non-secular." It keeps coming up, but a link has never been included. Please, if anyone knows where this is coming from, could you post the interview. It's a significant detail, if factual, but at this point, I'm not sure it is.
<modsnip>

Whilst searching RI stuff I re-watched this from a year ago. Interesting to note that he felt the case would be solved in 2-3 days. RI states with the evidence at the scene and video/audio of BG that you'd be able to solve the case even in the 1960s with what LE have.

Well worth a re-watch for tidbits. Fox59 Robert Ives Interview
 
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I hesitate to talk about KAK because I don’t think he’s involved. But here goes…

How many girls was KAK catfishing? Lots. So many. IMO the chances that any teen girl murdered would have been catfished by KAK was probably pretty high.

It took me a while to wrap my head around Libby being catfished by KAK and killed by someone unrelated but really that’s what seems to be the case.
I have been thinking this as well....because it's just so random it could well be true.
Weird happens.
 
SBM
Exactly. It’s excellent that Libby got a clip of video and audio;
BUT it was not close up at all, nor clear; and the person had his head down and was covered up, and the voice was not clear with so short a clip.

It’s not like capturing clear footage as in the cctv footage released by law enforcement of the suspect in the Barbara Gustern homicide:
View attachment 379745

Assuming RA is bridge guy, some of this is about context processing. We process people in certain contexts and cannot see them in other contexts -- the guy in a military, police, maintenance or other person in that you don't always recognize in civilian clothes because you don't recognize them in thay context. They recognize you because the context has changed for them.

The colleague you see outside of work whose really dressed up that you barely notice is another example.

In short, while we don't know whether the number of RA tips was 0 or 100, it would not surprise me is no one recognized him.
 
I have no stake in this debate at all, infact I’ll admit I’ve lost the point of why the location of the shoe is significant.
I'm clueless as to why anyone responded to my post in the first place, since no one had the information to back up the claim that the shoe was found in the driveway. Then I took the time to respond to well-meaning but not applicable information and post a map for reference.
 
I don’t want to search for that interview, just because we are all overwhelmed with them, all these years. So I can’t quote him. But if he said, I saw it and immediately felt like vomiting, I would not be surprised. So either it was shockingly nasty, or maybe religiously indecent. Both would cause such a reaction in DC, I assume, but I imagine BG, a man who goes to church with his wife and deep inside, ridicules religion? But deep inside, as he is “on the good side of the law and religion”.
I agree. (That was my impression, also)...ya never know..different people using the same words can mean totally different things to each person. moo
 
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The article states that Kline told investigators they would find a cellphone and a weapon in the Wabash River. Article goes on to state those items were not found.

Yet, in the period of time after Allen was arrested, but before his motion to have an attorney appointed was recognized, five charges were dropped against KAK (As @TL45 has indicated, they appear to the “emilyann“ related charges.)

If those items in the Wabash River were not found and so were not what led to Allen, did Kline in some other way implicate Allen, or was suspicion SOLELY based upon a review of the investigative files and had nothing to do with Kline? That seems unlikely without some evidence beyond his having come forward to a conservation officer about his presence at MHB the day of the murders. There had to be more - breakdown in alibi, recently discovered forensic connection to the bodies or where they were found, or something else.

Recent LE activity related to KAK seemed to coincide remarkably close with the search warrant at Allen’s home and property and also with Allen’s subsequent arrest. And there was the report about KAK conducting a search for directions to the Marathon gas station not far from Allen’s home on the day of the murders which also seemed to potentially link the two.

I have to wonder: If they were meeting at that Marathon station and KAK was later waiting in the red Jeep, is it possible another person was also involved? Is LE still trying to snare another person, so are downplaying any discoveries from the Wabash River search and any related disclosures from KAK? Was Allen not the hands-on killer, but instead an accomplice who directed the girls toward the killer? Did LE hope Allen would talk and thus help in supporting search and arrest related to another - still unidentified - person who cannot otherwise be lawfully considered suspect?

It just seems there is more going on than what has been revealed. And the FBI was absent from the press conference after the arrest. Why? They were involved early, put up signs about LG and AW across the country early, and were present and spoke at the April 2019 press conference. So why absent now?

Are KAK and Allen potentially at risk - not simply by angry citizens, but as witnesses who can implicate another - until still another person is identified and taken into custody of LE?

ETA: if there is still a suspect outstanding, is that suspect associated with the “emilyann” posts?
Not saying this is what happened but here's some food for thought on the Delphi and KAK connection. We are 30 charges in with KAK and there is no charge that involves actually meeting someone. There are some good indications that nothing about KAK is really about KAK. Two comments in the transcript of his interview obtained by MS stuck out to me -- it's the part where KAK says his father had sex with a girl KAK brought home and bringing his father into the sex play with girls KAK video chatted with online. It is not wildly unheard for teams to catfish-- one person reels the person in and the other one runs the last mile. Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein are an example.

What if KAK was the facilitator?

In this world, he would set the situations up on social media and, then, hand off the rest to others by giving them access to his account, where they would have the images and have the ability to further engage the victims and potential victims.

At the end of the day, his Googling of the Marathon gas station, if true, makes my hair stand up.

Now, this all, I recognize, stretches the bounds of sanity as a theory, and a more likely explanation is the murders of Abby and Libby cause ISP to double down on child SA and CSAM cases, which leads to Kline. And just like drunks hang out in bars, and sometimes go to the same ones, the two cases may be linked because they involve knocking on a lot of the same doors.

Either way, we will find out soon
 
I didn’t realize the bridge was so dangerous! I’d imagined it as a common challenge for local kids that maybe parents would roll their eyes at, but not such a dangerous spot as all this!

So maybe kids hanging out at the bridge wasn’t as normal as I always figured … if that’s right, what was BG doing hanging around there…. what made him think he’d be able trap a victim on it?? Or did he just get “lucky”

And given this new insight…. if the bridge was this dangerous, how many people were likely to walk on it on a Monday afternoon in February?? Makes it all that much crazier that RA told LE he was “on the bridge” & there was no followup!!

JMO
Oh yes
The bridge was scary when we were there after Libby & Abby were found.

There are rotted out boards, boards Missing so you have to jump over open spaces.

Too scary for me to cross over the whole bridge.
Nope
 
So I asked one of my college roommates - third generation funeral director - and he said it would be difficult to have an open casket with a decapitation but it's entirely possible.
The big business in Pasadena?
 
Hey, if he reported his presence on the bridge to an officer on 13th Feb, then he would not have yet known about the footage captured on Libby's phone. He was just covering his back should anyone have seen him around at that time, or if he was to be forensically linked to the area i.e. via a cigarette butt, spit, hairs, etc...

This article says:

Sources have told FOX59 News that Allen voluntarily came forward in the early days of the investigation and admitted he was in the vicinity of the bridge that day.

 
Was it like this back in February 2017, or has it become more run down over the years since then so it got to this state after the incident. Because there is absolutely NO way I'd be that high up, crossing a bridge that looked like that. Especially with no side rails to hold onto. It's just hard to imagine that the 3 of them did that IMO.
The photo was taken shortly after the murders.

The Monon High Bridge had been on the Indiana Landmarks 10 Most Endangered list in 2017, when the Indianapolis-based preservation group negotiated with CSX to started plans to shore it up. Those negotiations, Indiana Landmarks officials said at the time, had been in the works for several years and that the transfer was not timed to the homicides earlier that year.

Indiana Landmarks has already worked to stabilize a pier that had been deteriorating. They said the next step would be to install decking and railing on the bridge, as the city works on the approaching trail.

“With the work that’s been done, the bridge is good to go for the next 100 years or more,” Kleckner said. “We’re thrilled by the news from the state on the Next Level grant".

"Since April 2017, the bridge has been off limits. Fences have stretched across the trail before hikers get to the Monon High Bridge".

$1.2M to restore Monon High Bridge trail, scene in Delphi teens’ murder

Someone posted on the Alltrails website on June 1, 2021 that "Railroad trestle is fenced off about 1/5 mile before you get there but easy to walk around. Trestle itself in horrible shape and dangerous to walk on".

Despite a lot of searching, I haven't seen one image of the bridge with new decking and railings.
 
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Thanks,
Mad
 
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