Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[jking]

Wasn’t implying anything. Just wondered why they seem less involved in the spotlight. That’s all

I agree with you. I have wondered the same thing.

 

[RedArcher]

I might just be a snot but what does RA's wife being "a wonderful person" and "they've been married thirty years..." have to do with anything that this case is about? He has been arrested for two counts of murder, right? I know I should probably read more, yada yada, but how pertinent is all this stuff about his marriage, etc.? ETA, where is there proof that anyone thinks there IS an accomplice? I've only seen that someone considers this a possibility. It's possible that a purple people eater was involved too, yes?

It seems to me this is the lawyers attempt to humanize and gain some sympathy for his client ( bringing up his marriage, wife, etc.) Starting the process as early as possible in my opinion.

 

[155etta]

It seems to me this is the lawyers attempt to humanize and gain some sympathy for his client ( bringing up his marriage, wife, etc.) Starting the process as early as possible in my opinion.

Calling him "Rick".

 

[JudgeJudi]

That makes sense. It is just that the interview of RA's atty was so well attended by the media and this raised my hackles. moo

The media spoke to Baldwin after he left the courthouse and he was happy to briefly speak with them. WRTV said, prosecutor McLelland didn’t make time for media interviews after the hearing adjourned.

 

[taylorss]

In my opinion, what I got from that comment was that a man married to his high school sweetheart for 30+ years is indicative of stability and decent character--not expected of a murderer of two children. I am beginning to feel the possibility that Allen is being railroaded. His bail hearing is set for February--nearly 3 months from now! If he is guilty, why all the secrecy and why the desire to hold him in prison for 3 months before having a bail hearing? What happened to having the right to a speedy trial? It seems as time goes on, the government more and more does what it wants, no matter what the rules are, no matter what the law and the constitution says. My opinion only.

I want justice for the girls, and hope LE arrested the right guy, but as you can see, I have my doubts. I hope the court will unseal the documents so we can better form an opinion. MOO

IA that this is totally not the sort of backstory I expected when they finally found BG! Everything we hear about RA makes him sound less like the monster who’d do this… successful career at CVS, well-liked by customers, family man etc imo

But then he does match the BG pics to me JMO & his voice even more so. And most of all - I really really don’t think LE would be trying to railroad someone at this point. They’ve endured the humiliation of not catching BG for almost six years already - during all that time, I’m sure they would’ve loved to be able to call this solved. But they never did, they kept grinding on despite the public embarrassment. After all that, I can’t believe they would’ve brought RA in here unless they were certain they had the right guy. Moo

 

[Marzipan]

I might just be a snot but what does RA's wife being "a wonderful person" and "they've been married thirty years..." have to do with anything that this case is about? He has been arrested for two counts of murder, right? I know I should probably read more, yada yada, but how pertinent is all this stuff about his marriage, etc.? ETA, where is there proof that anyone thinks there IS an accomplice? I've only seen that someone considers this a possibility. It's possible that a purple people eater was involved too, yes?

The defense can say all kinds of things. They said he looked them in the eye and said, “ I’m innocent. Please help me.” But what I’m going to be listening for is for them to tell the court that RA is not the man in the video Libby shot of Bridge Guy, that he is not bridge guy. Or that he is, but that it doesn’t prove he killed them. How are they going to respond to this basic question will be interesting. And whether or not he ever takes the stand himself to answer the question, “Is this man you?”

 

[Marzipan]

IA that this is totally not the sort of backstory I expected when they finally found BG! Everything we hear about RA makes him sound less like the monster who’d do this… successful career at CVS, well-liked by customers, family man etc imo

But then he does match the BG pics to me JMO & his voice even more so. And most of all - I really really don’t think LE would be trying to railroad someone at this point. They’ve endured the humiliation of not catching BG for almost six years already - during all that time, I’m sure they would’ve loved to be able to call this solved. But they never did, they kept grinding on despite the public embarrassment. After all that, I can’t believe they would’ve brought RA in here unless they were certain they had the right guy. Moo

He’s innocent until proven guilty, but I agree this is no railroading attempt. LE must 100% believe it’s him. If they are wrong about his heinous criminal involvement in these murders, there is almost no hope to ever convict anyone. They will have lost credibility and faith.

 

[Wltrn]

Again, they were open to one or more people being involved. I'm paraphrasing because I don't know how to do anything else. Being open to it doesn't mean that they think it is the case.

Just some random thots...

I believe kak is very closely involved in this case... I just reread his arrest interview

He admitted talking to Libby the night before for hours

Has a convo with Anthony_ shots about meeting Libby at the bridge but she was a no-show

Google searched for a nearby gas station

Questionable waiting for killer in red jeep in parking lot???

At minimum, I believe he gave away their very specific location and time

All just mho

 

[Boxer]

In my opinion, what I got from that comment was that a man married to his high school sweetheart for 30+ years is indicative of stability and decent character--not expected of a murderer of two children. I am beginning to feel the possibility that Allen is being railroaded. His bail hearing is set for February--nearly 3 months from now! If he is guilty, why all the secrecy and why the desire to hold him in prison for 3 months before having a bail hearing? What happened to having the right to a speedy trial? It seems as time goes on, the government more and more does what it wants, no matter what the rules are, no matter what the law and the constitution says. My opinion only.

I want justice for the girls, and hope LE arrested the right guy, but as you can see, I have my doubts. I hope the court will unseal the documents so we can better form an opinion. MOO

The time is provided for the defense to go over evidence.

The DA has had the evidence and time already, only revealing enough to arrest so far.

Once a trial date set the evidence the DA will be showing in court must be given to the defense.

The time here is in the interest of the defendants rights.

Whether RA can be bailed before trial is the judges call.
If there is clear evidence there is “presumption great” and no bail.

 

[photographer4]

IMO, I agree the girls were kidnapped prior to being murdered. So I can not understand why Allen hasn't been charged with kidnapping the girls...Makes no sense. Anyone have any ideas?

Allen has only been charged with "Felony Murder". The only thing I can gather is that Allen is NOT Bridge Guy, but was involved in some other way with the events which led to Libby and Abby's deaths.

Or Allen is bridge guy but someone else caused the girls deaths? They may want to apply a lot of pressure on him and perhaps this explains the charge and subsection of the law they used. Death occurred during the commission of another crime (eg: kidnap). Murder is a stiffer penalty as death penalty is on the table. Maybe they will use it to make him want to talk about others involved (if any) to broker a plea bargain?

 

[photographer4]

The defense can say all kinds of things. They said he looked them in the eye and said, “ I’m innocent. Please help me.” But what I’m going to be listening for is for them to tell the court that RA is not the man in the video Libby shot of Bridge Guy, that he is not bridge guy. Or that he is, but that it doesn’t prove he killed them. How are they going to respond to this basic question will be interesting. And whether or not he ever takes the stand himself to answer the question, “Is this man you?”

I’m interested to see how defence handles the audio “guys, down the hill”. We know the recording was “cleaned up” by Le or whichever agency they sent it to. Does the “clean up” affect what we discern as the words “guys, down the hill” at all? Does it change tone, pitch, intonation? Can it be matched to RA by some respectable scientific means? How are LE sure BG said those words? To whom? We assume to the kids but what if he spoke the words to other people or another person at the scene?

Did LE ever tell us that he said those words to the girls? Or just that he said them? MOOOooo

 

[photographer4]

IA that this is totally not the sort of backstory I expected when they finally found BG! Everything we hear about RA makes him sound less like the monster who’d do this… successful career at CVS, well-liked by customers, family man etc imo

But then he does match the BG pics to me JMO & his voice even more so. And most of all - I really really don’t think LE would be trying to railroad someone at this point. They’ve endured the humiliation of not catching BG for almost six years already - during all that time, I’m sure they would’ve loved to be able to call this solved. But they never did, they kept grinding on despite the public embarrassment. After all that, I can’t believe they would’ve brought RA in here unless they were certain they had the right guy. Moo

This is a bit of a backstory but it may not be the whole story. if he did this crime I hope we learn more about him. What prompted this and could anything have been done to stop it at any point? That is all I want to know.

 

[mrjitty]

In my opinion, what I got from that comment was that a man married to his high school sweetheart for 30+ years is indicative of stability and decent character--not expected of a murderer of two children. I am beginning to feel the possibility that Allen is being railroaded. His bail hearing is set for February--nearly 3 months from now! If he is guilty, why all the secrecy and why the desire to hold him in prison for 3 months before having a bail hearing? What happened to having the right to a speedy trial? It seems as time goes on, the government more and more does what it wants, no matter what the rules are, no matter what the law and the constitution says. My opinion only.

I want justice for the girls, and hope LE arrested the right guy, but as you can see, I have my doubts. I hope the court will unseal the documents so we can better form an opinion. MOO

So some counterpoints for discussion

1. It was the accused who didn't get a lawyer for weeks, despite being entitled to one from the get go. I get he may not be sophisticated, but surely a lot of blames for slowness to challenge his detention sit with him.

2. Scheduling of the bail hearing is set by the judge, in consultation with the lawyers. Presumably the defence wants time to go through discovery, learn the case against the accused and then make an argument for release.

3. It isn't the case that the prosecution gets to hold him for 3 months based on secret evidence. Two judges decided to do that, based on an AA that the defence has access to. Why don't the defence make an urgent application for bail? They only applied 3 weeks after arrest, and agreed to scheduling next year!

So while I have some sympathy that bail hearings ought to be held speedily, I don't agree the government is doing what it wants contrary to the constitution. RA's detention is subject to judicial oversight and two judges agree there is probably cause to justify his detention so far. The defence have failed to challenge that.

 

[mrjitty]

It's worth remembering that the charges don't mean LE don't think RA is directly responsible for the murders (sorry for double negative!)

Many countries have simply codified lots of murder transactions to make life easier for prosecution, because in terms of criminal justice we want to hold killers responsible for the foreseeable results of their actions.

So basically you when abduct someone, or do an armed bank robbery, and victims predictably get killed, we hold people responsible for that and don't let them argue "oh that was never my plan". This was pretty much the case at common law anyway, but the codification just makes it easier in terms of what the prosecution must prove.

So i would bet a glass of chardonnay that in the AA, prosecution alleges RA directly did the murders - but the formulation of the charges governs what they have to prove as far as intent goes (lowering the bar)

I know the US lawyers have discussed this a lot in the thread!

 

[mrjitty]

Having listened to the Murder Sheet podcast on the hearing, I don't get the feeling prosecution is saying there is another killer on the loose. I think they are saying someone else might be involved somehow.

 

[asyousay]

Having listened to the Murder Sheet podcast on the hearing, I don't get the feeling prosecution is saying there is another killer on the loose. I think they are saying someone else might be involved somehow.

Yes but the defense say that’s not shown in the sealed documents so I don’t understand how that’s relevant when the prosecutors used that as a reason to keep them sealed?!


The entire thing just seems very messy at this stage imo

 

[Boxer]

In my opinion, what I got from that comment was that a man married to his high school sweetheart for 30+ years is indicative of stability and decent character--not expected of a murderer of two children. I am beginning to feel the possibility that Allen is being railroaded. His bail hearing is set for February--nearly 3 months from now! If he is guilty, why all the secrecy and why the desire to hold him in prison for 3 months before having a bail hearing? What happened to having the right to a speedy trial? It seems as time goes on, the government more and more does what it wants, no matter what the rules are, no matter what the law and the constitution says. My opinion only.

I want justice for the girls, and hope LE arrested the right guy, but as you can see, I have my doubts. I hope the court will unseal the documents so we can better form an opinion. MOO

Even if the time here is in the interest of the defendant, sealing is a separate matter. Sealing is rare as court proceedings are public by law and public for good reason. The feeling someone is possibly being railroaded is valid as so far nothing but “we got him” has been made public.
Hard to understand what other suspect there would be who would not have already flown or destroyed evidence upon RAs arrest.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

Just some random thots...

I believe kak is very closely involved in this case... I just reread his arrest interview

He admitted talking to Libby the night before for hours

Has a convo with Anthony_ shots about meeting Libby at the bridge but she was a no-show

Google searched for a nearby gas station

Questionable waiting for killer in red jeep in parking lot???

At minimum, I believe he gave away their very specific location and time

All just mho

I agree on instinct, though he could argue that’s just all circumstantial. Or very very unlucky. But it does seem he’s close to this; ie the river search in August based on information he gave LE. That’s not insignificant.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Vinelink still shows RA in Carroll County jail.

 

[Elley Mae]

He was served a search warrant days before arrest, I wonder if and how long before that they had him under surveillance.