Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

[girlhasnoname]

I still think theres a black hoody under there

Agree, in the PCA he mentioned wearing a head covering (like a hoodie).

 

[Fargo]

Right, but why even admit he had clothes that matched the description of the killer? I guess RA telling LE he was wearing those clothes in his October interview isn't really helping him at this point. I bet his attorney is not loving how chatty RA was before hiring an attorney.

Unless they aren't the same clothes and RA knows it. He could easily have gotten rid of the actual clothes and given LE something similar. Clothes that have no evidence on them at all because they weren't ever at the crime scene. I don't know RA and have no idea his level of intelligence, but saying "These are the clothes I wore that day" does not mean they really are. He easily could have switched them out. And should have. RA's attorneys may have specifically mentioned the clothing because they already know there is no evidence on them and want to make that point early. My opinions only.

 

[iamnotagolem]

My thoughts exactly. When guns come off the assembly line they are pretty darn similar. Over time the extractor and other features of the chamber progressively become more individual depending on how many times it's fired, what kind of ammunition is fired through it, how often the gun is cleaned, etc.

So how many times has RA's .40 Sig been fired in the last 5 1/2 years? 10? 100? 1,000? How similar is the chamber, the ejector, the extractor today compared to 5 1/2 years ago? An expert is going to have to admit these features change with use progressively over time. That's how guns become "individual" in the first place. They grow into themselves.

I go to the range about once a week on average and fire about 100 rounds. I myself am now wondering how similar my firearm is today after firing thousands of rounds through it. I've never really thought about it, but I sincerely doubt it is *exactly* the same as it was 5 years ago. The barrel itself, maybe, but the components of the chamber? As a juror I would be more comfortable if that weapon and casing were matched nearer the time of the crimes rather than 5 years later.

But who knows? Maybe the prosecutor will get lucky and RA hasn't fired that gun at all in the intervening years. Some people don't. They buy a firearm for personal protection but rarely, if ever, fire it.

Another thing I would want to know as a juror is how many other casings, spent or unspent, were found on RL's property. RL had a number of firearms too and it's likely he and other people over the years carried out target practice on that property. It's kind of what you do in rural America. Were there other .40 casings found there? How many? Were any others "similar" to RA's .40? Were there 10 other .40 casings that were similar but you're not telling me about the other 9?

As a juror, I have a lot of questions about this piece of evidence and I hope the prosecutor is prepared for them. My opinions only.

I'm hoping since .40 isn't a popular ammo for target shooting that he hasn't fired a lot of rounds through.

Most people who target practice are using .22 or 9mm as they are cheaper and less recoil. If I remember correctly he had other firearms, so if he did much shooting it was probably with a gun that was more fun to shoot.

The girls were found on private property, so I'd imagine there weren't other rounds or cases found around the bodies. Otherwise, you're right that opens a huge case for reasonable doubt, well and how similar is any round through any P226 if that's the case. I hope the science is solid on this.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Odd that RA would meet conservation officer at grocery store, looks like two in town. One store is like a block north of cvs.

Perhaps RA mentioned he was running to the store and could meet him there. I'm sure he didn't want to be seen anywhere near the police station. He was just friendly chatting to a CO, no biggie. MOO

 

[iamnotagolem]

Unless they aren't the same clothes and RA knows it. He could easily have gotten rid of the actual clothes and given LE something similar. Clothes that have no evidence on them at all because they weren't ever at the crime scene. I don't know RA and have no idea his level of intelligence, but saying "These are the clothes I wore that day" does not mean they really are. He easily could have switched them out. And should have. RA's attorneys may have specifically mentioned the clothing because they already know there is no evidence on them and want to make that point early. My opinions only.

Oh you would be a much better killer than me. Good plan. Now I, too, would do this.

eta: commas

 

[WingsOverTX]

So

Something I would love to know… will RA confirm it is him in the video images? If he has willingly admitted to being on the trails that day, surely he saw that video and thought that is/isn’t me and knew that for years the public was searching for an identity.

Not if his defense attorneys are the bulldogs they appear to be. He won't be talking to LE any more unless he wants to have new counsel because who wants to represent a defendant that reckless?
JMHO

 

[Dondarion]

Yes, there is even information on this in the PCA. It all comes down to the timing.

View attachment 384458

I'm trying to think back without going over everything again but weren't there early reports of others too?

I remember reading about a guy sitting on a bench, who a few days earlier had asked some young people for spare change.

I'm also sure at first there were reports of a couple (man & woman) who were possibly having an argument close to the bridge.

 

[EOA]

Yes, the word "gun" is spoken by Abby or Libby on the bridge video.

But a good defense team will not let the jury assume 'for sure' that means we're thinking that 'probably' means. IF (and hopefully there truly is more context on the remainder of the recording) all that's heard is one of the girls saying "gun" the defense will cast doubt like....how do we know the full sentence isn't "Libby does he have a "gun"?" "Libby pull out your "gun" (a bluff)", "a gun sure would be handy about now", etc.

It's a leap, up for debate on how big but nonetheless a leap, to go from only hearing one of the girls say the word gun in an unknown context, hearing "down the hill" out of full context (again up for debate whether it's a more conversational tone or command tone), & even hearing "guys" (as opposed to gals or girls) when the only 2 other known people there were female.. to the certainty that BG was kidnapping A & L at gunpoint.

 

[Gardenista]

Judge issues gag order in Delphi case

People close to the Delphi case will no longer be able to talk about it at least until after a January hearing.

fox59.com

 

[LammyTheRobot]

Judge issues gag order in Delphi case

People close to the Delphi case will no longer be able to talk about it at least until after a January hearing.

fox59.com

Why did Judge Gull wait until today to order an interim injunction barring parties from speaking publicly about the case? The application/motion was made on Nov 22, will have a full hearing 13 Jan, but the interim order made today Dec 2. That left ~10 days for "those close to the case" to talk publicly about it.

Judge Gull ordered the full hearing at the same time she denied the state's motion to keep the PCA sealed, which I believe was two days ago. Why didn't she order the interim injunction then, if it matters so much?

I get the value in an interim injunction, but with things like this time is usually of the essence, legally speaking. No point saying: "I'm going to issue an interim gagging order, but I'll do it in a week."

JMO, obviously, just a tad confused about this.

 

[Fargo]

Link to the order. It looks like the judge issued it in response to yesterday's press release by the defense.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/12/gag-Order-Issued-18.pdf

 

[iamnotagolem]

Why did Judge Gull wait until today to order an interim injunction barring parties from speaking publicly about the case? The application/motion was made on Nov 22, will have a full hearing 13 Jan, but the interim order made today Dec 2. That left ~10 days for "those close to the case" to talk publicly about it.

Judge Gull ordered the full hearing at the same time she denied the state's motion to keep the PCA sealed, which I believe was two days ago. Why didn't she order the interim injunction then, if it matters so much?

I get the value in an interim injunction, but with things like this time is usually of the essence, legally speaking. No point saying: "I'm going to issue an interim gagging order, but I'll do it in a week."

JMO, obviously, just a tad confused about this.

My guess is she issued it after the defense attorney's press release yesterday and the finger pointing at FBI "misfiling" and the FBI firing back that the mistake wasn't from them.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

Link to the order. It looks like the judge issued it in response to yesterday's press release by the defense.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/12/gag-Order-Issued-18.pdf

Gotcha, but it’s not for a judge to take action based on anything except applications in front of her. She can’t just see events unfold and make actions from her own initiative.

So was there another motion for an emergency order made by the state yesterday?

 

[Gemmie]

Joseph Scott Morgan, help!!

To my knowledge, and PLEASE someone correct me if you have information, ejecting an unspent round from a magazine leaves no marks that conclusively tie it to a specific magazine or a specific gun. I

SBMFF.

While I can't answer if they conclusively tie it to a spec mag or gun... they most definitely can leave marks.

Extractor Marks

Another action mark, usually found in a striated form, are those created by the extractor of most auto-loading or repeating firearms. The extractor is a small part sometimes resembling a hook that is used to remove a cartridge or cartridge case from the chamber of a firearm. The image below shows the extractor of a 9mm GLOCK pistol hooked into the extractor groove of a cartridge. As the slide of the pistol moves to the rear, the extractor pulls the cartridge case along with it until it is ejected from the pistol.

The extractor may or may not leave an identifiable mark on the cartridge case. This is true if the cartridge is fired or simply hand chambered and extracted without firing. Extractor marks may look like those seen in the comparison image below.

​

Ejector Marks

As described above, the extractor pulls the cartridge case out of the firearm's chamber. As the cartridge case is pulled to the rear it will be struck somewhere on an opposing edge by a part as seen below called the ejector.

The ejector is designed to expel the cartridge case from the action of the firearm. The resulting impact of the cartridge case with the ejector will cause another action mark that can be used as a means of identification.

Ejector marks can be striated in nature but a lot of the time they are impressed action marks.

Striated Action Marks- FirearmsID.com

Forensic Firearms Identification is a discipline of Forensic Science that has as a primary concern to identify fired ammunition components as having been fired from a specific firearm.

www.firearmsid.com

 

[photographer4]

Yes? The girls mentioned it on their video. And if the markings are traced convincingly to his particular gun, that's hard to explain away.

Those kids did *absolutely amazing* in that situation!!

 

[WildHuncher]

I keep seeing people say this and from what I understand this isn't true, from the very start of this investigation we know there was at least one other adult male on the trails who was referred to as Flannel Shirt Guy. He spoke to one of the girl's dads when he was there to pick them up.

BTW, this is my first comment on this site, I've been reading along for years. Some of the insight on here is excellent.

That was later, sometime after 3. The parent was there looking for the girls. Abby, Libby, and BG had been in the woods for almost an hour. Don't have the timetable right in front of me, but Muddy Bloody Guy would be seen on the road in about another half hour.

Bad luck for RA that no one saw him leaving unmuddy and unbloody. That would give his defense a tremendous boost, but no. Bad luck. You would almost think there was only one short stocky guy out there in denims and a hoodie when the bad stuff happened.

No witness ever saw both him and the similarly dressed real killer. He and the real killer were very close to each other for the entire run-up to the crime. RA went on the High Bridge and used his superpowers to look at fish. No one saw two guys dressed the BG way. Even RA has apparently neglected to claim he noticed a guy about his own size and build wearing something like his own outfit in the area.

Let's say the defense establishes that cycling scratches on ammunition show some non-trivial percentage of false positive matches. Let's say 20 percent. I doubt if they can sell a higher figure.

So we are to believe he rolled craps yet again. Just one of those unlucky matches that seem unlikely but happen. Yeah. Another one. But of course the really hard part is believing that that bullet came to be there in the first place by innocent bad luck.

Incredibly unlucky. I'm inclined to say "unaccountably unlucky."

 

[pepper 34]

I've said this before and I still believe this. The girls were catfished. One person was waiting and one followed them to where they were told meet. We just have to wait. Homicide must have something. Thank god the girls took video. I hope their families get some justice and answers for this crime. Jmoo

Does anyone else remember that, during the very first or second police press conference after A and L were found deceased, that the police chief, I believe it was, made the statement (paraphrased) ... "Parents need to know what their kids are doing online." ? I've tried to go back and find the specific news conference but I'm not very good at being able to find old news videos, etc. But it seems to me that LE had a pretty good idea way back then what had probably taken place. At the time, we had a discussion here about catfishing and most seemed to think the officer had said as much in that statement.

 

[legalmomma]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598726302109941761

 

[Fargo]

Gotcha, but it’s not for a judge to take action based on anything except applications in front of her. She can’t just see events unfold and make actions from her own initiative.

So was there another motion for an emergency order made by the state yesterday?

No, there is no new motion on the record. Just the state's original motion from 11/22/22. The judge issued the order on her own, according to the record.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Gemmie]

While noting the picture of BG could certainly refresh RA's memory of what he wore that day as apparently he and BG were twinning . . .

I do not remember what I was wearing the day the twin towers fell. I remember the day all right.

I have no memory of what I was wearing when my brother called to tell me Dad had just died. I can tell you the clock in my car is seared at 10:18 forever in my memory.

I actually know what I wore to my Dad's funeral. The last day I saw his face.

I know what I wore at my daughter's wedding as mother of the bride.

My point? I personally can only remember my wardrobe on huge, life changing days.

JMO

For me it would be easy to remember. Why? because unless I'm going to a wedding, job interview, etc.... I'm wearing blue jeans. Hiking? DEFINITELY jeans. February cool weather out for a hike? My favorite cold weather jacket, and no other jacket, and jeans. So I could definitely say what I was wearing many years ago when I was out on a hike when the temps were chilly.