Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

[weather_lady]

Context is everything, and I should have mentioned (again) that the RL warrant stated there were no signs of a fight on the girls. I was only wondering with that in mind, if perhaps he drugged them. Of course if they were controlled via a gun or otherwise scared stiff, I totally understand that! I cannot imagine the terror they felt, nor how I'd have reacted as an adult faced with the same circumstances.

Apologies if someone else has mentioned it already, but I keep thinking of that quote from Stephen King's novel and film The Green Mile. John Coffey says of "Wild Bill," the man who murdered two sisters, "He killed them with their love," referring to the fact that Bill had threatened the girls, at the time of their kidnapping, to each stay quiet, or he would hurt the other one. He used their love and loyalty against them to bring about their deaths.

I suspect the killer here brandished his gun and made a very similar threat, and that the girls complied, each hoping to protect the other. My personal theory is that he had a round in the chamber, just in case one of them attempted to fight or flee, but didn't need to use it: so before he left the crime scene, he ejected it to make the weapon safe before hiking out, possibly not realizing that anything about an unspent bullet could tie him to the crime, or perhaps not realizing just where it fell and too rushed to look for it.

 

[Le Singe]

View attachment 384095
View attachment 384097

these actually look alot more similar than the picture i had in my head. (that was probably an appalling use or miss use of the English language sorry).

 

[snickums]

What’s weird is why wouldn’t the law enforcement who interviewed him ask about him later? Wouldn’t they have thought- over the months and even years- “Wow. That guy was there during the time of the crime. He matches the description. Has he been eliminated?” And maybe follow up? “What about this guy I interviewed.”

I don’t know how the process works.

It was a Conservation officer, not any kind of police officer, not much training or special skills
needed/ Become an Indiana Conservation Officer

 

[photographer4]

Here's what I find interesting about the parking spot. RA,even if he parked in a manner which hid his license plate and was oddly close to the building, willingly chose to park in a public and visible location.

Personally, and contrary to what I thought early on in this case, I believe RA came to the trails fully planning to find L and A at the bridge that afternoon. I also believe the bridge was a somewhat impulsive decision on the girls' part, but RA was watching L's SM and found out shortly before they left, that they were going. We know it's likely RA was familiar with the trails and the bridge, where to park, etc. I do not think he planned this well in advance, though, or had the CS location in his mind, because otherwise he could have parked in the cemetery, or the south private drive, and had his car better hidden. But I don't think he necessarily knew he could get to that particular spot by walking directly behind the cemetery, or get to the south end of the bridge via that private drive. I think he got to the bridge and basically winged it. I've always thought more likely happened in the woods directly down the hill, before crossing the creek.

I just watched this GH video. This was chilling. It seems that he was spotted on the platform by a witness, then was walking towards the area where the kids were dropped off. Did he see them and suddenly decide YES. Those two?? Because then it seems he followed them back out on to the bridge and carried out the crime before making his way back to the car at CPS.

 

[Gemmie]

DBM

 

[gitana1]

It was a Conservation officer, not any kind of police officer, not much training or special skills
needed/ Become an Indiana Conservation Officer

So they wouldn’t have been involved in the investigation. Just gathered statements from people? I’m not sure how that all worked. When was he questioned? And how did they choose who would question whom?

Another thing that is confusing- when there’s a crime of this magnitude, aren’t people questioned more than once?

 

[WingsOverTX]

What’s weird is why wouldn’t the law enforcement who interviewed him ask about him later? Wouldn’t they have thought- over the months and even years- “Wow. That guy was there during the time of the crime. He matches the description. Has he been eliminated?” And maybe follow up? “What about this guy I interviewed.”

I don’t know how the process works.

If I was the woman/teen who drove by him & saw him bloody & muddy, I would have followed up with LE to find out what happened to my report or reiterate, "Hey, what about the bloody guy in suspect's clothing near the crime scene." Not saying I blame the person for not doing so but that sighting was better than anything RA said to the conservation officer.

Questions about the long gap between crime & arrest do need answers/better explanations. Surely LE hasn't held back hoping to ensnare KAK in this crime before arresting RA?

JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

I guess I would think that memory would be sharper in a case of this magnitude. It is such a horrible and rare case in a place like that. It seems it would be on everyone’s minds a lot.

I completely agree. There was a pretty high profile case that I talked to one of the agents that interviewed the perp. I specifically asked him if he questioned the man about another case that was eerily similar and had a similar vehicle description, similar MO, etc. The agent barely knew anything about the case he was involved with and had no awareness of the other case at all.

So even though Abby & Libby is a high profile case, I'd bet the officer who took the statement submitted it and moved on with his job as that wasn't part of his job and since he doesn't deal with investigations he didn't have access to the file to see what had/had not been followed up on.

While different parts of the LE and the rest of the judicial system work together, the communication between them and access to information is a disaster, at least in my experience.

 

[TL4S]

I just watched this GH video. This was chilling. It seems that he was spotted on the platform by a witness, then was walking towards the area where the kids were dropped off. Did he see them and suddenly decide YES. Those two?? Because then it seems he followed them back out on to the bridge and carried out the crime before making his way back to the car at CPS.

This is just my feeling on how it happened, but I think RA knew he was there before the girls, but knew they coming, and so he was standing on the bridge looking at the terrain layout, maybe deciding where he could take them. He was only 50 feet from the north end when the witness saw him, so I imagine him scoping it out and then going back into the woods on the north side to wait. After the girls were half-way across, and L had taken her photos of A, he made sure nobody else was coming, then entered onto the bridge.

 

[Prime8]

What’s weird is why wouldn’t the law enforcement who interviewed him ask about him later? Wouldn’t they have thought- over the months and even years- “Wow. That guy was there during the time of the crime. He matches the description. Has he been eliminated?” And maybe follow up? “What about this guy I interviewed.”

I don’t know how the process works.

I assume he would have thought that LE was handling it. He wouldn't have special access to the investigation just because he put in a tip.

 

[Prime8]

Didn’t happen. Not is this case. The Conservation officer is sworn poloce not a civilian calling in a tip
line.

We don't know how the CO put in the tip, he could have called a civilian tip line. Just because he's an officer, doesn't mean his information wasn't misfiled, because, obviously it was. He likely did not have any special access to investigators where he could directly pass on the information.

 

[photographer4]

The trial is (currently) scheduled for 5 days (I know this is subject to change as things progress). But given all the evidence we're aware of from the statements of LE, from the RL warrant, to now the PCA - do we think this is enough time? Too much time? Not enough time?

 

[Prime8]

If I was the woman/teen who drove by him & saw him bloody & muddy, I would have followed up with LE to find out what happened to my report or reiterate, "Hey, what about the bloody guy in suspect's clothing near the crime scene." Not saying I blame the person for not doing so but that sighting was better than anything RA said to the conservation officer.

Questions about the long gap between crime & arrest do need answers/better explanations. Surely LE hasn't held back hoping to ensnare KAK in this crime before arresting RA?

JMO

We don't know that she didn't follow-up. She was likely interviewed multiple times over the years. There's nothing about that part of the story that implies the information was not front and center in the investigation. I'm assuming they knew that was BG but with no name to connect him to, they can only go so far.

 

[Prime8]

Hot take. RA could have been checking stocks AND killed the girls.

 

[photographer4]

dbm

 

[iamnotagolem]

I'll assume their database was similar to the last one I used.

Every call logged linked date, location, caller, responding officer, perp/victim, phone number, etc.

So it was basically a giant spider web. Once you did a search for specific caller, you could go through channels to see every time they called LE and anytime a complaint was made about them. From there you could access every call made from that address and anyone else linked to that address.

Obviously any typo would break the web.

So in this case, I'm assuming "clerical error" was they put the wrong case number so it wasn't uploaded into the right case file, or any typo that would have broken the web.

I wonder if "fresh eyes" did a date search and painstakingly went through everything uploaded to their system on 2/13 & 2/14 and found RAs report.

eta: That's if it indeed was a clerical error as is being reported.

 

[DancingMuse]

i still have a question about how this went down, but i'm having trouble explaining it and i'm hoping a picture might be worth a thousand words. Can anyone answer this or is it still unknown?(note: i don't know the exact body location point on my map is the general area so don't flip out on me lol)

View attachment 384098

Le Singe,
Thank you for your excellent diagram with your exact questions for clarification.

It also would speak to whether they "put up a fight". There are several times A&L could have fought
fiercely. It just was that the area showed NO evidence of it. (Leaves, and underbrush could
have been further disturbed by the searchers, for instance. ) Or, For instance, they could have fought RA
valiently, in the water, as he forced them from one bank to the other side, and there would have been absolutely no record of it.

It has been said many times: Their bodies were 'moved and staged'. Since the investigators might not KNOW
exactly where they breathed their last (sadly), we might never know where, along the way, they might have
quite effectively fought with all their might. The act of 'staging' also could have destroyed evidence that they resisted in every way they could.

It just so happened that there was no evidence left on the exact spot where their bodies were ultimately discovered.
There might be no clear evidence at that exact spot, but since at least 200 feet could have been covered, from your diagram it seems, ..... my belief is that they most likely fought courageously.

MOO.

 

[photographer4]

Family confirms new information in murder case of young girls in Delphi, Indiana

In an interview with Fox News that aired Tuesday, German's grandma, Becky Patty, said police have DNA in the case.

www.wdrb.com

BP tells us police have DNA in this case. I hope it ties to him and locks this one up nice and tight.

 

[Le Singe]

Le Singe,
Thank you for your excellent diagram with your exact questions for clarification.

It also would speak to whether they "put up a fight". There are several times A&L could have fought
fiercely. It just was that the area showed NO evidence of it. (Leaves, and underbrush could
have been further disturbed by the searchers, for instance. ) Or, For instance, they could have fought RA
valiently, in the water, as he forced them from one bank to the other side, and there would have been absolutely no record of it.

It has been said many times: Their bodies were 'moved and staged'. Since the investigators might not KNOW
exactly where they breathed their last (sadly), we might never know where, along the way, they might have
quite effectively fought with all their might. The act of 'staging' also could have destroyed evidence that they resisted in every way they could.

It just so happened that there was no evidence left on the exact spot where their bodies were ultimately discovered.
There might be no clear evidence at that exact spot, but since at least 200 feet could have been covered, from your diagram it seems, ..... my belief is that they most likely fought courageously.

MOO.

thanks.

But do you know how deep the river is there can it be easily waded across? in my head i was thinking something bigger. If it can me easily waded then my question is basically moot.

 

[iamnotagolem]

It's wild to think that if this case hadn't been screwed up that we wouldn't be talking about it now. If RA was arrested that week when they had all the evidence they needed to arrest him, how many people would have even heard of this case?

The inability to solve it when they had so much evidence is what made it so high profile.